conibear traps

[Mountaineer]

...You just hit on the main problem. People have been taking traps for years. That is why no one wants signd put up because hunters as well as other people take the traps. The problem starts with us.

Only to an extent, re your final sentence.
The problem starts with the folks who set traps with zero regard for location, legality, non-target harm and montoring of the traps.
Traps, in other words, being used for other than the taking of pelts.
Traps, often cheap snares, being used for control of deer predators.....snares that by their nature and design, catch by location more than anything which can be a teaching experience.
I do not wish to be connected in the collective WE, The Hunters or Whatever...with those selfish or agenda-blinded folks, in any shape or fashion.

But, why anyone would want to steal a trap is beyond me.
Were one of my dogs to die or be injured in a trap then destroy it I would as a weak individual I am.
Were I to find a trap, dependent upon where it was and what kind was, I would simply set it off....if it offered little possibility for dog harm then I would simply leave it be and head out of Dodge....as I have done both in Kansas and Iowa.

Trappers....need to police their own ranks and own up to the bad actors in their midst.
Dog owners...need to respect the honest Trappers and accept the consequences when a dog's injury or worse may demand a bad action in memory of a good dog.

[MN Bonasa]

I just read about another dog being killed here in MN from a conibear during a late season grouse hunt. This trapper set the trap within 20 feet of the major trail going back into the woods. I think 2 to 3 people watched the golden retriever die right in front of them because they couldn't get the trap off in time. I hate reading stories about this, but every time it happens the people make it public so we all know about the incident. To alot of us our dogs are our family and we have invested not only alot of money and time into these friends of ours, we have also invested our lifestyle to these wonderful animals. No dog should be ripped from their family because a trapper was to arrogant to think that nobody else would hunt this trail again this year.

I would think in this day and age somebody would have come up with some sort of protection to act against this for their dog. Some kind of K9 Armor around the neck to offer some kind of protection to buy some time. I usually have 3 colllars on my dog when hunting, one heavy duty leather collar which also had ID info, the E-collar and also the Astro collar. I try to convince myself that at least the three collars could add a little protection.

Maybe the use of conibears should be more restrictive during the bird season, like as in 5 ft set off the ground during and then can go back to ground sets after the bird season ends. Or no trapping on designated hunter walker trails, RGS habitat areas and the like and only allow the use of conibears on private land until the bird season is over.
just a thought.

[slistoe]

As I have said before, where were you guys when the AR movement was persecuting trappers? You threw them under the bus in some misguided notion that you would be spared, that is where you were. Before the AR movement gained steam on the trapping front Conibears did not exist. They were a response by the trapping industry to thwart a concerted extermination effort by everyone - the AR folks, the Environmentalists and the HUNTERS. You are reaping what you sowed - kill sets.
Consumptive outdoor sports are doomed to die a slow death because of the people participating in them.

[MHWH]

slistoe,

What is meant by AR?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I have no doubt something happened because you wrote it.

I also had nothing to do with anything that changed trapping in any manner. But, even if I had I still don't
understand the insensitivity of your comments. You would actually be OK with knowing
one of your traps killed someones beloved dog? Because the owner should have trained it better, right?

I guess I just don't get that sort of thing, and the reason I can't handle being around some people. You may well be
one of those. I know your probably don't care about that.

Mike

[ezzy333]

Animal Rights

[northUpland]

Lot's of opinions but who here has actually had one of their own dogs get trapped in a conibear? I have and it was a tough run... The particular pointer was experienced, 5 yo and had hunted from Maine to Mexico and was well proven. Trap snapped him cross muzzle on public Wisconsin land probably just after a close sniff. After x-rays no damage except for deep cuts to muzzle sides. All I expect from trappers is to follow the rules, a ribbon on tree and a shelved box IF you're going to set on public land. I can't image a kid wondering into a public land trap. Private land, so be it! Whatever. I don't think that is asking too much just to follow public land rules.

[dead mike]

like i posted earlier, my bros DD had a 220 around his neck, his extra shock collar prob saved him. My brother was so pumped with testosterone he broke the trap off. Turned out the trap belonged to my first cousins husband. Anyway...
I can see SListoes point, why should we force our opinions on a perfectly legal trapper. He doesnt know where a guy might hunt his dogs? And yes the conibear came about because of the AR groups. Like i suggested earlier i wish the traplines were marked with a sign, i did hunt a road that was marked and i was glad i knew. But i can understand why they're not, thieves.
Also if the seasons would not overlap each other i think that would be significant. Its a tough one.

[MHWH]

Shouldn't the trappers just view the theft of their traps as just part of the risk
of trapping? Why would that bother them? They think bird hunters should see the injury
or death of their dog as part of the risk of bird hunting.

[ezzy333]

Shouldn't the trappers just view the theft of their traps as just part of the risk
of trapping? Why would that bother them? They think bird hunters should see the injury
or death of their dog as part of the risk of bird hunting.

Or maybe the hunters should just put their dogs in the kennel during trapping season. Crazy idea isn't it. But just as sensible as some of the others posted on here. And none of them are helping solve a problem that needs addressing. Until people get serious about it, nothing will change since both are legal activities and the people who do each are trying to blame the other side. That doesn't work.

Ezzy

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

It's against the law to tamper/steal traps in the states that I have trapped in and the penalties are pretty stiff. As a bird dog guy and a trapper, I am conflicted but what gives the dog people any more right to use the land over the legal trapper.

I kinda like the Kevlar collar idea though. Might be a good profit maker.

[Malinak]

I take my dogs out in areas where people trap with conibears because, unfortunately, trapping is allowed almost everywhere on public land around here. I have bigger dogs, but any of their heads could fit in a conibear sized for lynx or wolverine. It sounds like the consensus is that is it very hard to train a dog to avoid or to detect traps in general. But can they be trained to avoid conibear? I have one dog that is started in scent detection work- she is a malinois and of the type of line/breed used by the military or police to scent drugs or explosives. Could I train her to scent out the conibear or is it too difficult to isolate the scent because the metal/food/urine that trappers use is impossible to reproduce? I know for things like IUD, you train the dog to detect the scent of the explosives- NOT the scent of the metal or whatever is used to harbor those explosives.

Has it been done? Can it be done? Anyone succeeded and able to share some tips?

I don't want to enter the ethics debate. I am most concerned about my dog's health and safety out there and I realize that the trapping laws are not going to change anytime soon.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

Animals become trap shy all the time and without formal training. Coyotes avoid snares that missed them one time. Coons avoid box traps all the time. Even dumb rats will avoid traps that didn't kill them. Do we really think that dogs can't learn As much as a rat?

[Mountaineer]

....Even dumb rats will avoid traps that didn't kill them. Do we really think that dogs can't learn As much as a rat?

Do we really equate a rat with a dog or that the first time will always be the lucky one? :roll:

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

I related it to coyotes as well and I could relate to bears, wolves, possums, beaver and many other species but my point is simply that animals can learn to avoid traps.

[Mountaineer]

Pigs are said to be quite smart but not sure I would reckon them wise.

[sean english]

My dog gets into one, I will shoot the owner's kneecaps off.
What is it with trapping anyways?

[ezzy333]

My dog gets into one, I will shoot the owner's kneecaps off.
What is it with trapping anyways?

Same thing as it is with hunting only theu trap a lot of vermin while we hunt mostly birds. When the fur prices are decent the trapper help rig the unland areas of the preditors that do a lot of damage to the population of the birds. We are all on this together.

Ezzy

[birddogger]

Attack and/or try to get the other guy's legal activity banned and yours will be next, with nobody to defend it. I can't believe the arrogance of some people who think his/her particular sport or any legal outdoor activity is the only one that should be allowed. It is this attitude that will help the AR crowd, anti hunting crowd and the PC crowd [actually all the same people] have their way with all of us.

Charlie

[Nate K]

I am new on this forum but after reading this thread I felt I needed to chime in and give my "humble" opinion. Especially since I make my living Trapping even though it is in a Urban setting more than in the field.

The thing that bothered me the most on this subject is the words "BAN" and "THEY" used so often.

As outdoor people (men and women) we see our sport (hunting/fishing) being attacked daily by anti's and just uneducated people in general. So I am at a loss how one group of outdoors people would be so quick to jump and attack another group. It has always been my belief we only stand a chance to defend our sport if we stick together. But here all I am reading is comments I expect from the anti's. To be totally honest I am shocked, but I know I shouldn't be.

I have listened to many say "BAN" conibears on land. A lot of States including mine (Wisconsin) larger size conibears are illegal on land. They can be used in trees if enclosed in a box or half submerged in water. I am sure the "DOG GUYS" had something to do with this but it was before my time. I for one am against any ban. I would guess most of you are waiting to see what guns are about to get banned. Because the majority of you know that once they start banning they don't stop until nothing is left. I for one find this unacceptable.

I have heard comments about make the trapping season start after we are done. Well why are you more important than a trapper? I did hear a few people suggest end our season a week early and I must say it is not the norm for someone to willingly give up something for someone else. I was actually impressed by those comments.

I heard someone suggest putting up signs or marking traps. I can't speak for any other State but here in Wisconsin each DNR land has a sign that says what activities are legal on the land. It is up to you to expect to find traps on this land. Personally I mark my traps with yellow marking tape, that is when I find the time to fur trap (not often). I know it raises the risk of my traps being stolen but I am so afraid of catching a dog I am willing to risk it. I use cheap traps so cost is minimal to me. But at no point in time would I ever ask another trapper to mark his traps. That is putting a sign up saying "My traps are right here" or "Free Traps"

There is no easy answer to this debate. It is a learn to live together type of situation. I know I have heard countless stories about guys going to check their trapline and they find their catch blasted with a shotgun from bird hunters. I have never heard a trapper say "They need to move the bird hunting season so it doesn't interfer with trapping" I have never heard a trapper say "Ban shotguns" they all say the same thing, call the DNR and report it to the Warden.

I promise you no trapper ever wants to catch your dog. I promise you no trapper wants anyone to know they are even there. Most check traps before the sun is even up so they don't run into other hunters. I know many trappers who pull all their traps during gun deer season even though they don't hunt just so they don't interfer with the guys in the woods deer hunting.

I just find it crazy that I am hearing people call to ban something just like they are on the Board of Directors of HSUS or PETA. Who knows when they read this thread maybe they will contact some of you and have you march to Washington with them and present your ideas to the Government on behalf of HSUS.

Is it really to difficult to just assume ANY land you are hunting on has traps on it? Because I would bet that ANY land you are hunting on has traps on it!!! But if you feel banning things from a fellow sportsman is your only option then you will proceed.

I guess I should be thankful that I live in a State where all Sportsmen and women work together to fight the real villans.

[UpNorthHuntin]

Does anybody think that dogs could trained to avoid like snake breaking?

Train them to avoid the bait.

And thats the answer i think.

Good luck with that one.... I have trained the Narcotics and Explosive Dogs that Ezzy speaks of. Since 1986... I don't care how well you train a dog to avoid food, if they are hungry, they will go after it. I have personnaly trained over 500 Narcotics and Explosives dogs, And worked as a handler, Trainer, KennelMaster for over 15 years. I trained all of my dogs not to eat food that wasn't given by me, but that never seemed to keep them from trying. In drug work it was a little easier too. Many times I would place the drug or explosive training aids near or around food. It trained the dog in a way to ignore the food while he was working and pay attention to the fact that that steak just might have explosives under it. It worked, then on the way out to the truck he would walk by a garbage can and try to grab the KFC sitting in it. I just don't see that as being a viable option. Hunting and Working dogs are usually kept a little skinnier. I know mine perform much better on an empty stomach, so they are hungry in the field. If they see a treat, they are going to try to get it until corrected. This is an issue with a bird dog that is not within your sight at all times.

I think the alternating of the seasons in problem areas may be the best practice and the most fair to all involved.

[birddogger]

I think the alternating of the seasons in problem areas may be the best practice and the most fair to all involved.

I am not sure whether or not that would work due to mating seasons and conservation considerations but at least you are considering all involved. But if it could be worked out, it may be a good option.

Charlie

[rinker]

Attack and/or try to get the other guy's legal activity banned and yours will be next, with nobody to defend it.

+1

Turning a hunting dog loose comes with some dangers. Dogs can be hit by cars, fall in holes, be attacked by wild animals or other dogs, get hung up in fences, get caught in traps, and a hundred other things that I can't think of right now. Of course we try to minimize the dangers but they can't be eliminated. Illegal trapping should be reported to the authorities and dealt with. I understand that every time I turn my dog loose, something could happen to them, that is part of the game. I think the odds of my dog getting caught in a conibear trap are tremendously lower than the odds of my dog getting hit by a car. I'm not advocating that cars be illegal.

[JIM K]

conibear traps in my opinion have no place on LAND. in water after beavers is only place for them.
with traps and snares today you can trap anything.
guess what, what you dont want you dont kill with others.
conibear kills everything including your dog.

folks, i am trapper for 46 yrs here in pa. i have not done it for awhile but in no way am i for conibears on land .

[TraditionsGSPs2010]

Attack and/or try to get the other guy's legal activity banned and yours will be next, with nobody to defend it. I can't believe the arrogance of some people who think his/her particular sport or any legal outdoor activity is the only one that should be allowed. It is this attitude that will help the AR crowd, anti hunting crowd and the PC crowd [actually all the same people] have their way with all of us.

Charlie

+ 1

[TraditionsGSPs2010]

My dog gets into one, I will shoot the owner's kneecaps off.
What is it with trapping anyways?

- 1. Should the trapper shoot your kneecaps off becuase your dog screwed up his set?

[birddogger]

My dog gets into one, I will shoot the owner's kneecaps off.
What is it with trapping anyways?

- 1. Should the trapper shoot your kneecaps off becuase your dog screwed up his set?

Every time we have a thread like this, there are a few telling us what a bad azz they are and what they would do. I believe it is mostly all talk, However, anybody who is actually serious and capable of doing something like this has no business in the fields or woods with a gun. And if they were to do something like this, besides spending an extended period of time in prison and being sued for thousands of dollars, they would never be allowed to hunt or own a firearm again. Like I said, it is all cheap talk.

Charlie

[Mountaineer]

There are obvious poseurs on both sides of the issue....especially on message boards.
All dependent upon the lucre each needs in their Life.
Implying physical harm is idiotic and is a red flag to that posing....as equally is the ignoring and free-passing of those who set traps for reasons other than pelts.

Conibears on land of a #220 size and larger should be outlawed...as should the indescriminate snares.
They won't be because too many wish to enlarge the issue to being against...Trapping, making the real problem take a back seat.
Wrong, of course, as has been explained ad nauseum but anti-Trapping is easily defined as selfish and Trapping is easily supported as being a sport of fellow outdoors folks.
Many also love to be in some supportive high-five choir.
I can only assume they are bored or lonely.

In the end, the dogs lose.
Even if it is one dog.....that is too many as a trade-off of support for the indescriminate setting of certain traps or of supporting a fellow outdoorsperson simply because they exist.

[slistoe]

Mountaineer, do you approve of a ban on semi-auto firearms? It might save one persons life.

[Mountaineer]

Mountaineer, do you approve of a ban on semi-auto firearms? It might save one persons life.

No
Nor do I fear my Sweet 16 will be put to the cutting torch.
I've explained my position re traps and trapping....and dogs.
Read a book or clean out the dog kennel, Lost Cause....both bring positives.

The one problem with the Ignore feature here is that one only can only Ignore if one is signed in....otherwise, one must quickly slam their eyes shut.
I'm not as quick as I once was.
I reckon the wisest course is simply to avoid looking.

[slistoe]

I've explained my position re traps and trapping....and dogs.

And your position mirrors that of the anti-firearm folks.

[Rod W]

I went out to my stepdad's ( a trapper of 60+ years) the other day to make a video of opening a conibear by stepping on the lower jaw, grasping the upper jaws/rings with your hands and pull upward--and together. This was with a 330 and it can be easily be done! We didn't make the video, but did release the mallet that was holding the trap open. If any conibear trap has caught anything, it cannot close completely. To release a dog, we would only have to open it another inch or two and it would be easier done this way than with any manufactured trap setter or rope! This is assuming the trap is on the ground and that WE are in the area when the dog gets caught. If this post doesn't clarify the idea please let me know, I will make the video! ROD

[ptrthgr8]

Hmm. Old thread. But I actually read through the whole thing since I was researching what upland hunters do when faced with snares and traps in the field. I'm new to hunting (this season will be my first) and while I plan to do all of my hunting on private land where the owners don’t trap, I am still concerned with those sorts of devices. It only takes one bad moment. So I will get one of those tools from Ron and I will purchase a couple of different traps to familiarize myself with them. I really don’t want my first time dealing with a snare/trap to be my first time out with my pup. Any suggestions for specific types/models of traps that would be the best examples to get? I’m sure there are an infinite number of different traps/snares out there, but any suggestions for getting a few that will serve as good examples of what I’m most likely to encounter in North Dakota/Minnesota?

And, since everyone else was giving their opinion, I’ll provide mine, too. I think traps and snares of all sorts should be banned. They’re too indiscriminate. They’re the landmines of the hunting world. And I hardly think they’re sporting. Set it and forget. Not sure how that qualifies as sport. And, yes, I realize an argument could be made that rifles, shotguns, scopes, fancy bullets, duck calls, blah, blah, blah could be considered “unsporting” by someone who was so inclined to make that argument. I suppose in the purest sense, the only absolutely true “sporting” type of hunting would involve a hunter going after game with their bare hands and buck naked. Hunting with what God gave you and all that. But at least firearms, dogs, calls, etc. require some level of skill to actually use. With traps and snares I suppose you need to know where to put them, but I still have a hard time calling that “sporting.” So, I realize I’ve made my argument one of a sliding scale (i.e. how much unsportingness is allowed before it should be banned?), but I can’t help feeling the way I do about traps and snares. So that’s my two cents.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

[ezzy333]

Hmm. Old thread. But I actually read through the whole thing since I was researching what upland hunters do when faced with snares and traps in the field. I'm new to hunting (this season will be my first) and while I plan to do all of my hunting on private land where the owners don’t trap, I am still concerned with those sorts of devices. It only takes one bad moment. So I will get one of those tools from Ron and I will purchase a couple of different traps to familiarize myself with them. I really don’t want my first time dealing with a snare/trap to be my first time out with my pup. Any suggestions for specific types/models of traps that would be the best examples to get? I’m sure there are an infinite number of different traps/snares out there, but any suggestions for getting a few that will serve as good examples of what I’m most likely to encounter in North Dakota/Minnesota?

And, since everyone else was giving their opinion, I’ll provide mine, too. I think traps and snares of all sorts should be banned. They’re too indiscriminate. They’re the landmines of the hunting world. And I hardly think they’re sporting. Set it and forget. Not sure how that qualifies as sport. And, yes, I realize an argument could be made that rifles, shotguns, scopes, fancy bullets, duck calls, blah, blah, blah could be considered “unsporting” by someone who was so inclined to make that argument. I suppose in the purest sense, the only absolutely true “sporting” type of hunting would involve a hunter going after game with their bare hands and buck naked. Hunting with what God gave you and all that. But at least firearms, dogs, calls, etc. require some level of skill to actually use. With traps and snares I suppose you need to know where to put them, but I still have a hard time calling that “sporting.” So, I realize I’ve made my argument one of a sliding scale (i.e. how much unsportingness is allowed before it should be banned?), but I can’t help feeling the way I do about traps and snares. So that’s my two cents.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

You make some good points but then on the other hand think of all the good they do by catch predators and vermin that there is no other good way to catch. And why should any of us have to tailor our likes and dislikes to some one else's ideas. If we want birds to hunt then we better support out fellow sportsmen in their endeavor and hope they will do the same with ours.

Ezzy

.

[ptrthgr8]

If we want birds to hunt then we better support out fellow sportsmen in their endeavor and hope they will do the same with ours.

Ezzy

I suppose that's true. I think, though, that this is where we get into trouble with neither group really wanting to compromise. I'll admit I find it difficult to compromise from my position regarding trapping, but I'm also a new hunter so perhaps I've simply not yet seen the benefit of trapping to me as a hunter. But, to be honest, I never really thought too much about trapping before getting a bird dog - out of sight, out of mind. I've been a dog owner for eons, but Remy's my first hunting dawg, so this is the first time I've had to face the potential risk of my dog getting maimed or killed by some man-deployed device just sitting out there waiting for him to get too close.

From what I've seen on this thread so far (risking a generalization here) it doesn't really seem like the trappers are too willing to do anything to help us dog hunters out, perhaps because of the compromises/changes that have already been forced upon them. If trappers aren't willing (for whatever reason) to not use certain kinds of traps, move the season, or mark the signs, what other compromises can they make that would still allow them to do what they do? And if bird dog hunters aren't willing to train their dogs to avoid traps (again, for whatever reason), keep the dogs close to them at all times, or not hunt in areas that are most likely to be trapper land, what other compromises can they make that will allow them to do what they do?

It's almost enough to make you want to say "Fine. This here line will separate everyone. Trappers on that side, bird dogs on the other side, and everyone have fun." If only it were that simple, eh?

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

[cjhills]

Trapping is not Necessarily sport. Most trappers do it for income. If you contact the Mn. Trappers Association they have a lot of info about Connibear traps. Actually trapping requires a much higher skill level than shooting a bird over a dog or a deer from a stand. The animal don't just jump in the trap. Also as Ezzy said it does a lot for predator control especially if Fur prices are decent. I don't think an animal sees getting killed as sport whether it is trapped,shot or any other sporting method.............................................. Cj

[cjhills]

If we want birds to hunt then we better support out fellow sportsmen in their endeavor and hope they will do the same with ours.

Ezzy

I suppose that's true. I think, though, that this is where we get into trouble with neither group really wanting to compromise. I'll admit I find it difficult to compromise from my position regarding trapping, but I'm also a new hunter so perhaps I've simply not yet seen the benefit of trapping to me as a hunter. But, to be honest, I never really thought too much about trapping before getting a bird dog - out of sight, out of mind. I've been a dog owner for eons, but Remy's my first hunting dawg, so this is the first time I've had to face the potential risk of my dog getting maimed or killed by some man-deployed device just sitting out there waiting for him to get too close.

From what I've seen on this thread so far (risking a generalization here) it doesn't really seem like the trappers are too willing to do anything to help us dog hunters out, perhaps because of the compromises/changes that have already been forced upon them. If trappers aren't willing (for whatever reason) to not use certain kinds of traps, move the season, or mark the signs, what other compromises can they make that would still allow them to do what they do? And if bird dog hunters aren't willing to train their dogs to avoid traps (again, for whatever reason), keep the dogs close to them at all times, or not hunt in areas that are most likely to be trapper land, what other compromises can they make that will allow them to do what they do?

It's almost enough to make you want to say "Fine. This here line will separate everyone. Trappers on that side, bird dogs on the other side, and everyone have fun." If only it were that simple, eh?

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

Have you ever actually talked to a trapper or a trappers association member. You might get a different point of view. The reason for using traps that kill is because leg hold traps, which do very little harm other than hold have been outlawed on land. Many trappers are also bird hunters and dog owners. The season is regulated by when the fur is prime. I don't see a real lot of interest in shortening the bird season to avoid the the trapping season
Be aware of the fact that most on here are pro dog and many are anti -trapping. Talk to some trappers, there may be another side. While you are out to have fun they are out for income.
Good luck with training your dog to avoid traps. I have hunted in the northern trapping zones for years and have never had a dog in one, but if it happens the dog will very likely be dead when I find it...............................Cj

[nikegundog]

Hmm. Old thread. But I actually read through the whole thing since I was researching what upland hunters do when faced with snares and traps in the field. I'm new to hunting (this season will be my first) and while I plan to do all of my hunting on private land where the owners don’t trap, I am still concerned with those sorts of devices. It only takes one bad moment. So I will get one of those tools from Ron and I will purchase a couple of different traps to familiarize myself with them. I really don’t want my first time dealing with a snare/trap to be my first time out with my pup. Any suggestions for specific types/models of traps that would be the best examples to get? I’m sure there are an infinite number of different traps/snares out there, but any suggestions for getting a few that will serve as good examples of what I’m most likely to encounter in North Dakota/Minnesota?

And, since everyone else was giving their opinion, I’ll provide mine, too. I think traps and snares of all sorts should be banned. They’re too indiscriminate. They’re the landmines of the hunting world. And I hardly think they’re sporting. Set it and forget. Not sure how that qualifies as sport. And, yes, I realize an argument could be made that rifles, shotguns, scopes, fancy bullets, duck calls, blah, blah, blah could be considered “unsporting” by someone who was so inclined to make that argument. I suppose in the purest sense, the only absolutely true “sporting” type of hunting would involve a hunter going after game with their bare hands and buck naked. Hunting with what God gave you and all that. But at least firearms, dogs, calls, etc. require some level of skill to actually use. With traps and snares I suppose you need to know where to put them, but I still have a hard time calling that “sporting.” So, I realize I’ve made my argument one of a sliding scale (i.e. how much unsportingness is allowed before it should be banned?), but I can’t help feeling the way I do about traps and snares. So that’s my two cents.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

To address your comment on the level of skill in terms of sport, I will say you are completely off the mark. Far more knowledge, time in skill go into being a successful trapper than a successful hunter. I trapped for a couple seasons in my youth and have hunted for 35 years, that's simply my opinion based my experience.

[RoostersMom]

Ditto what Nike said. I did my MS research on river otters in Missouri. I dealt with trappers from all across the state for 3 years day in and day out. They were bar none, some of the most dedicated sportsmen I'd ever met. There is a ton of skill that goes into trapping correctly. There is a lot of research out there on traps - and a lot of regulations. Not saying that a dog can't be caught, but it is a lot less likely now than 20 years ago (as far as incidental catches go). I know in many states, conibears are only legal under water.

I know I'd be devastated if my dog were killed by a trap - but I wonder what the chances of that happening vs a dog being hit by a car while hunting are? I've had one dog caught in a foothold trap in 13 years of hunting with 4-6 dogs. She was released uninjured (well, she was mad!) by me and my hunting buddy. There are always those out there that don't follow regulations and can give a bad name to an entire group - but at least in my experience, the trappers I've dealt with were reasonable and did make every effort to eliminate incidental catches.

I don't think I'd ever trap, but many people I know would never hunt. I hate it when we who enjoy a certain type of "sport" get so split from other groups that enjoy the outdoors in a different way. Trappers provide a great service to wildlife management - and fulfill a key role in furbearer management. Just because it's not for me (killing wolves and mt. lions and bears is not for me either) - doesn't mean I won't fight for them to have the right to hunt and trap as long as it's ecologically sound.

[rinker]

ptrthgr8, There are many dangers that face a hunting dog when you turn one loose. I would think that in most areas, traps are fairly low on the list of potential dangers. I have had a dog get hit and killed by a car while hunting, but I have never had a dog get caught in a trap. I understand when I turn a dog loose that there is some risk involved, I do what I can to minimize it, but it is never zero. I am not a trapper but I certainly support others right to trap. I think that all hunters, trappers, shooters, fishermen should support each others rights.

[ptrthgr8]

Trapping is not Necessarily sport. Most trappers do it for income.

Honestly, I don't really care if it's done for income. Rights aren't arranged in an order of importance or priority based upon the reason for exercising said right. I.e. just because they make money exercising their trapping right doesn't mean my right to hunt with a bird dog is somehow diminished in importance. And, while the exercising of their right might bring them income, it might also lead to the death of my dog. The exercising of my right to hunt birds will not result in the death of their trap.

The animal don't just jump in the trap. Also as Ezzy said it does a lot for predator control especially if Fur prices are decent.

Right - they just stick their heads or whatever into the trap. Seems to me the biggest trick is getting them to do that - which is what bait is for. Seems a lot easier than shooting a bolting bird from the sky. (But, again, I'm new to bird hunting, so my perspective on that is somewhat limited.) And predators can also be shot like any other critter, so it's not like trapping is the only option for clearing out predators.

I don't think an animal sees getting killed as sport whether it is trapped,shot or any other sporting method.

LOL Yeah, I can't argue that one. Dead is dead, eh?

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

[ptrthgr8]

To address your comment on the level of skill in terms of sport, I will say you are completely off the mark. Far more knowledge, time in skill go into being a successful trapper than a successful hunter. I trapped for a couple seasons in my youth and have hunted for 35 years, that's simply my opinion based my experience.

That's completely fair enough. Like I said before, I'm new to hunting and never really gave much thought to trapping before I got a bird dog. So I absolutely do acknowledge that my level of experience in this regard is pretty much zero.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

[ptrthgr8]

ptrthgr8, There are many dangers that face a hunting dog when you turn one loose. I would think that in most areas, traps are fairly low on the list of potential dangers. I have had a dog get hit and killed by a car while hunting, but I have never had a dog get caught in a trap. I understand when I turn a dog loose that there is some risk involved, I do what I can to minimize it, but it is never zero. I am not a trapper but I certainly support others right to trap. I think that all hunters, trappers, shooters, fishermen should support each others rights.

You and RoosterMom both touched on the same issues - there's risk inherent with anything we do, so perhaps it is just better to look at traps as just another risk that we may run into while we're out in the field. I think, though, the part about traps that really bothers me is that most times you don't know about it until it's too late. If a car does come around, there's always a chance that someone (you, the hunting partner, or the dog) might notice it and have an opportunity to avoid the problem. (Not always the case, of course.) Or with wolves or coyotes, there's always a chance that someone will notice something first and have the opportunity to do something about it before anything happens. Sharp branches, etc. can certainly happen, too, and they're just as quiet and unannounced as a trap, but I also feel compelled to draw a distinction between something that's naturally occurring (like a sharp branch, jagged rock, predators, sinkholes, meteors, lightning, or anything else out there that might do harm) and something that's placed in one specific spot for one very specific purpose that can easily lead to the injury/death of an unsuspecting critter. That's what traps are designed to do. They trap unsuspecting things.

I also realize that the odds of my dog getting caught/killed in a trap are probably a lot less than my dog and me dying in a car crash on the way to the field. But that's really not the point. It only takes one instance to cause a problem. It's not about odds or chances.

At this point I'm not sure that I would ban trapping if given the power to do so. I still don't like the idea of those devices, but I also agree that we've lost enough rights to the gov't (state and national) already and we certainly don't need to give those entities any further assistance to take away what little remains. But, man... I really, really, really, don't like traps.

Good discussion, folks. I appreciate the fact that we can talk about these sorts of passionate issues without reverting to the behavior you'd expect from a bunch of 6 year olds.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

[Thornapple]

Greg,
First and foremost welcome to the world of Bonasa umbellus. Whether you hunt on private property or public your world in the outdoors hunting these wonderful birds is about to change. I will not tell you why, it just will. It will have nothing to do with the number of flushes or birds in the bags, but it will impact you. Hopefully you will understand what I just wrote at some point on a mountain meadow, or a late fall setting sun, a beautiful gun just purchased, or seeing your dog point an incredible distance and hold the bird. Hopefully some or all of this will contribute in your own way to lead forward for others to maintain this wonderful sport.
I too read this column in the early Spring, bought a couple of the trap releases from Ron. However do not worry, the chance of your dog being caught by a snare or conibear are slim to none. I have hunted actively from one end of North America to the other for grouse, woodcock, et al for over 57 years actively (except for leading a group of fellows in Southeast Asia a few years ago), now several months out of the year and my dogs have never encountered a trap in all that time. You will however more likely encounter a porcupine. So to add to the general concern, make sure you understand how to properly remove quills and what to do next. Your dog's life will depend on it! The same with how to deal with encountering coyotes, wolves, and moose, what to expect, how to avoid them and what to do when you face one! All three critters are on a dramatic increase from when I started hunting, where there were none or very few before. If you are an active bird hunter you will encounter one or the other eventually. Knowing what to do and how to manage the situation is the antidote for your concern, not anyone on this forum. Greg, use your common sense, intellect and research.
Thornapple

[Thornapple]

Greg,
I was remiss in not mentioning, if no one has not been done at this point, the most important consideration for you and your dog in the woods. That is safety, and it is not a trap.
First thing is to get a good book on canine first aid. One that is designed for hunters. Dr. Randy Acker's Advanced First Aid for Sporting and Outdoor Dogs, is one of the best. It comes in paperback and a DVD available at places like Lion Country Supply.
Next, read it and purchase the recommended items in the back. Do not scrimp or try to short circuit what is in there! Next get the items and be familiar with the use of each. Just like Ron's trap release, it will of little to no use when you have a serious problem, your heart is pounding, you have not read the instructions, know how to use the items, or what is best for each "opportunity" (An old Navy term!).
Next purchase a belly or chest protector. Many gun dog owners do not use them, i do. Only because every time I return from a day out I find the chest cut by a sharp small branch stub from a fallen tree, old barb wire, etc. One fellow in Pa lost his GSHP to a sharp branch that penetrated the lungs of his dog a couple of years ago. All of this can be prevented or moderated to the point that it is not a potentially dangerous situation. Get a chest protector. After many purchased I find Filson's works the best for my dogs. However make sure your dog is used to it first, and it is fit properly.
I would also have someone cut the hair between the pads if you have a dog with lots of hair there. Most do, certainly my breed's feet look like Clydesdale's. I trim the hair with a simple electric hair trimmer. This keeps the burrs out from between the pads, also painful buildup of snow and ice. If you do not and it gets burrs, which it will often, you can forget hunting for the day until you get these out. It is painful for the dog and no fun for you in attempting to extract them.
Finally something so basic it is almost never mentioned, but I find always in short supply or forgotten by bird hunters I meet on the back roads. That is lots and lots of water. I carry at lease two gallons in my SUV. It is probably one of the most important items you will need not just on a hot October day, but for flushing out eyes, wounds, let alone cleaning your dog up a bit before kenneling.
I hope this helps somewhat.
Best, Thornapple

[ptrthgr8]

All outstanding info, Thornapple. Thanks very much!

I picked up a first aid kit from Gun Dog Supply, but still need to familiarize myself with everything in it. Also, good call on the chest protector. I had looked at those, but wasn't sure about them. I'll check out the Filson one you mentioned, but will also see what's available locally. I've got 4 gallons of distilled water I'm planning to take with for dove opener on Sunday. I figure that should cover the the wifey, the dog, and me while also leaving some to deal with any issues that arise.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

[roaniecowpony]

I learned a little/big trick from a guide at a hunt club a few years ago. When it gets warm, he fills a large tub with water in his truck bed. At each break, he puts the dogs in the tub for a bit. When we went out last time in late spring, another friend used his big ice chest for the same purpose (no ice, just water ). It might just keep someone from overheating their dog on the dove openner.

[Rod W]

When I used to guide at a local preserve for pheasant, starting in Sept when it can be quite warm, I had them put out a cattle tank filled with water, every dog that was used had a nice refreshing, cool down bath!

[JIM K]

HERE IN PA WE NEED TRAPPERS .
FOX /COYOTES WILL KILL A LOT OF BIRDS.RACCOONS EAT EGGS.

so we need them.
but we dont need conibear traps on land.
i trapped before and did fine will no.1 /2 steel traps.
snares are fine too.
your pup will not be hurt in any of them.

during trapping season you have to avoid WATER because a conibear may be in water or along bank in water in bucket.
so i hunt in areas that have no PONDS that maybe a beaver trapper could have conibear sets.

putting a conibear trap in bucket on land a dog could stick his head into it.
trust me, my SMALL MUNSTERLANDER will go into bucket .

little off topic but i always hunt my pups near stream.
if not, i carry GARDEN SPRAYER with water and tie pup to my bumper and hose him down.
garden sprayer,get one with at least 2 gallon capacity.
so i am against conibear on land but not in pond in water.