conibear traps

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:59 am

whiskers almost got in one this week.if not for my garmin alpha and bell stopping and getting a POINT signal on garmin, i believe he would be dead.i ran yelling when i saw 5 gal white pail in brush in swamp .

with BOBCAT season we are seeing a ton of these traps set now and mostly in places you hunt grouse.
with late grouse season here in pa, I AM CONCERNED.
so i bought a tool from this guy.
his name is ron.
i think you only need the 160/220 tool as that is ones that you mostly will see on LAND set.

27 dogs killed if i read article in mn. here in pa, police chief is pushing ban on these traps on land as his brittany was killed right in front of him.i believe it was a illegal set.

here is rons video and his no. is 715-347-7311.i HIGHLY rec you get one. 25 bucks may save dogs life.

http://www.twincitytooling.com/safetysetter.html

duckn66 · Post by **duckn66** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:06 am

They are bad news for sure. But I don't think a ban on them is necessary. Perhaps a ban on how and where you can set them. A simple fix for a bobcat set, or really just about any set would be setting them in a tree instead of on the ground. It's really quite easy to do with great results.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:13 am

duckn66 wrote:They are bad news for sure. But I don't think a ban on them is necessary. Perhaps a ban on how and where you can set them. A simple fix for a bobcat set, or really just about any set would be setting them in a tree instead of on the ground. It's really quite easy to do with great results.

i saw trapper set one in tree 3 ft off ground, blown over tree. the raccoon still got in trap.
your idea is good one.
bobcat could walk up tree and mink too. coyote just use the snares on them.

all it would take is dog to stick head into it.

only in water and under watewr.
this bucket or box on thing is nuts.

with snares today and good double spring traps, you can catch almost anything and be able to release whatever you did not want killed.
these conibears kill everything that happens to stick their head into it.
then trapper throws the non targeted animal in brush.
folks, i am pro trapper, did , lived it but theses CONIBEARS have no business on LAND.
JIM

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:19 am

My brothers DD was almost lost last winter to a conibear set for a lynx. I think the easiest way to curb this problem is to have trap lines marked with signs. One trapper up here has signs at the start of his line, i appreciate that.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:46 am

dead mike wrote:My brothers DD was almost lost last winter to a conibear set for a lynx. I think the easiest way to curb this problem is to have trap lines marked with signs. One trapper up here has signs at the start of his line, i appreciate that.

just last night in paper a trapper had 4 of his 160 conibear traps stolen. he had sign at traps here in my area of pa.
most say that people will steal them. they steal them even if not marked.bobcat pelt goes for 600 dollars.
setter folks said their setters are so far out,they would not see signs in time.
being i am trapper ,i feel these conibears should not be used on land in some states.or we will have to give up our late grouse season to trappers,or have start of trapping at end of grouse late season, like give us 3 weeks or so then start trapper season.
but sad thing is conibear on LAND kills everything. you cant release anything that is trap.
i caught many non targeted animals for years and used leg traps, released all unharmed.

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:53 pm

ya good point. i keep forgetting you cant trust people these days from stealing your stuff.

i hope things change

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:49 am

dead mike wrote:ya good point. i keep forgetting you cant trust people these days from stealing your stuff.

i hope things change

problem all traps that toby was in, all 3 did not have name on traps.

1 this year did have name on trap. the ones that set traps illegally dont use name.

i found DEER with snares around deer necks.
so,i found out that some found way to catch deer and go out next morning, shoot deer and get there deer this way.isnt that something, now low lifes found way to get deer easy way, use snare .put DEER scent in snare, doe sticks her neck into snare, pulls back, NOW YOU GOT YOUR DOE OR BUCK.

njp158 · Post by **njp158** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:46 pm

I live in Ohio, but hunt a lot in PA. I am not familiar with the 5 gallon bucket or box. What is that? The conibear has to be inside a bucket to be legal you are saying?

This is something that concerns me a lot. You can release these traps with a piece of rope as well. There's a bunch of you tube video's showing you how to do it. It's not something I would be able to figure out had I not watched the video's. If you run bird dogs, I suggest taking a minute or two and watch a couple you tube video's. A piece of rope takes up little space, weighs nothing and can save your dogs life.

Of course, this all rely's on the fact that the dog is not killed in the initial snap.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:57 pm

njp158 wrote:I live in Ohio, but hunt a lot in PA. I am not familiar with the 5 gallon bucket or box. What is that? The conibear has to be inside a bucket to be legal you are saying?

This is something that concerns me a lot. You can release these traps with a piece of rope as well. There's a bunch of you tube video's showing you how to do it. It's not something I would be able to figure out had I not watched the video's. If you run bird dogs, I suggest taking a minute or two and watch a couple you tube video's. A piece of rope takes up little space, weighs nothing and can save your dogs life.

Of course, this all rely's on the fact that the dog is not killed in the initial snap.

if you go on youtube enter 220 CONIBEAR TRAP BUCKET SET.asd for rope,its hard to use with dog or your HAND in trap.the tool i commented above can get your dog out quick and you can use 1 arm to do it.
rope could break, tiebands are known to break.
but those are better than nothing, you are right.
i have no relationship with ron on his tool, dont even know him but i was after tool that could get your dogs head out quick, rons does that and easy to carry etc.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:48 pm

IF a dog unlucklily gets in a conibear bucket set then close proximty hunter to dog along with luck is the only slim chance said pup has....time is everything.

Snares with stops, not a given, may well permit release but do not guarantee no injury to dogs.
Some dogs do not react well when in a trap and may flop and strain so injuring themselves.
Too many cheap and easy to set snares today are not used by Trappers but rather by fellas trying to protect deer from coyotes....they also may not run their snares as consistently as a professional or hobby trapper.
A lost dog, a ranging dog, a hunting dog is open to harm from snares...Astros there especially, make swell sense.

I have found traps set next to PGC gameland pull-offs and parking areas....I expect those areas attract scavengers.
Most traps will be marked, snares not so much and one trap set at a PGC Gameland had a marked sign unreadable due to the weathering.

Ban land sets for conibears.

Ban snares altogether.

Save the pups from unprofessional setters of traps.

Look on you-tube all you want, it is not always as simple or easy as depicted re 220s or larger.
I bought a Conibear #220 for practice even tho the possibility of harm of is slight.
Same with snares....use you-tube stuff after you buy the things for practice.
Do NOT expect a video to mean as much as hands-on.
In many ways past Habitat, it is a different woods today.

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:29 pm

Since when can you use conibear traps on land in Pa? I thought they could only be used in water.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:46 pm

ROTTnBRITT wrote:Since when can you use conibear traps on land in Pa? I thought they could only be used in water.

in pa, YOU ARE RIGHT. legally you cant use conibears in pa on LAND. but rule on water is not perfect.rule says in or under water. but with cubby set in pa, you are out of water somewhat and trap is upright to catch a head not leg.
they made CUBBY SETS legal.

problem is what is defention of water? it says ponds, dams, streams etc.

other states some allowed conibears on LAND. in swamp in pa is almost LAND.this is where a dog can get his head in one. same along stream,now upright cubby set puts trap so a dog can get head in it.
in pa trap cannot be larger than 6.5 inchs.other states you can use 220.which is much bigger.
problem is some do it illegaly on sets , use bigger traps and no name on traps.
they place them away from water or close by.

1 i found was in a SWAMP area. so, if you have hunting dog in pa i would avoid all water areas in trapping season.other states and using 220 conibear on land, oh my.

RyanGSP · Post by **RyanGSP** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:05 pm

I just googles Conibear trap and after seeing the images I agree. Ban them and Ban them now.

Although I will be picking up one of these tools and have learned how to unset one.

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:54 am

RyanGSP wrote:I just googles Conibear trap and after seeing the images I agree. Ban them and Ban them now.

Although I will be picking up one of these tools and have learned how to unset one.

Really?
Where were you ban-hammer folks when the antis were crucifying the trapping industry and forcing them into adopting kill sets over the "cruel" leg hold traps.
We eat our own.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:46 am

Exactly Slistoe it was cruel to hold them by the leg but not to kill them or anything else that came along.Just like the antis would rather put dogs to sleep instead of adopting it out to a hunter. :roll:

RyanGSP · Post by **RyanGSP** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:42 am

Yes really.

Id rather make a trip to the vet for a sliced up leg than a trip to the field to burry my dog.

The least guys who use those traps should do is put signs up. Especially in areas known for hunting.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:47 am

I've had dogs caught in foot hold traps no damage to go to a vet for,I think it scares the dog more then it hurts,after the initial catch & the dog quits pulling really not much to it.
The only thing we had to show for it was the teeth marks in the stock of my SKB so ga O/U.That was an E setter my GSPS never paid much attention other then trying to get their foot loose.
You can stick your hand in most foot hold traps with very little if any pain,any way I can & have seen others do the same,but I been told by Drs,chiropractors,& others I have a HIGH Threshold for pain.

MN Bonasa · Post by **MN Bonasa** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:05 pm

I recently watched a segment on a local news channel about a hunter who just about lost his dog do a trap along a well used trail. Instead of buying one of the trap setters he used a heavy industrial strength cable tie. Worked very slick, as you would squeeze the ends with one hand pull the zip tie with the other. The zip tie also keeps it together so you don't even have to try and get the safety ring attached. Very fast and effencient and the cable ties weigh next to nothing. There is a movement here in minnesota by Dog owners who hunt to ban 220's or at least get them 5' off the ground. I've read to many articles about dogs being killed by these and it is keeping me out of the grouse woods now because you have no idea where they could be set. I sure hope something happens soon, sure would be nice to be in the woods without that having to be on the mind, a hunter with a dog has enough to deal with when handling the pooch in the woods/field. We shouldn't have to worry that every time fido sticks his head into some brush they could get their neck snapped!

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:14 pm

RyanGSP wrote:Yes really.

Id rather make a trip to the vet for a sliced up leg than a trip to the field to burry my dog.

The least guys who use those traps should do is put signs up. Especially in areas known for hunting.

You are too late to the party. You don't get to have your dog caught in a leg hold trap - the antis have seen to that. Now you want to ban the "acceptable" alternative.

And no dog ever got a sliced up leg from a leg hold trap - that is hogwash. It is this type of ignorance from the hunting brethren that allowed the antis a foothold in this problem in the first place.

Signs is a dumb idea.

There was a time when strychnine poison was abundant throughout the landscape. The most important lesson a bird dog could learn was to not eat anything unless it came directly from the masters hand - they were food proofed to a greater degree than anyone ever snake proofed, porky proofed or deer proofed a dog. It was life of death. If getting in a trap set is that much of a risk to your dog and that much of a troubling issue for you, then teach your dog to leave them alone.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:55 pm

Trap avoidance is a sound idea but can be short-sighted in practacailty and perfection.
The learning curve with perfection is simply not worth the trade-off, to me.
Bad stuff happens to even trained dogs and dogs obtained as older models may well be another issue....I'd rather see the odds always in the dog's favor.
Refusing to accept that not all who set traps wear a halo only widens the divide.
Refusing to acknowledge that bad actors exist in trapping and with guns/gun rights issues as well only deepens the divide.
And no hunting brethern that simply sets a snare to protect "his" deer from coyotes concerns me, at all.

I can see rules which limit and not ban kill traps but snares...BAN the da(m)n things as too easy to abuse.
Ignorance of facts can be cured....blindness to those bad actors is forever...apparently.
Good that birddoggers are alerted to the potential with all levels of trapping....take precautions and move on.

A sign that a trap is present is a sound idea...especially when the location is a Gameland parking lot...better, of course, would be no trap.

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:09 pm

Mountaineer wrote: Refusing to accept that not all who set traps wear a halo only widens the divide.
Refusing to acknowledge that bad actors exist in trapping and with guns/gun rights issues as well only deepens the divide.

Crucifying all participants with a sweeping, emotional, knee-jerk reaction when a "bad actor" creates a problem is what widens the divide.
You wouldn't accept that argument if it were to ban semi-auto guns because some bad actor abused the right to use them would you?

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:29 pm

Mountaineer wrote: A sign that a trap is present is a sound idea...especially when the location is a Gameland parking lot...better, of course, would be no trap.

You are the one talking about ignoring the "bad actors" and in the next breath you advocate enabling them. There are far too many morally corrupt people out there to make advertising trap locations even remotely considerable as a good idea. These "bad actors" do not even have the moral compunction to realize that what they are doing is wrong - even to the point of publicly stating on a Gun Dog Forum bulletin board how they would destroy the persons sets.
Nope, we don't need any antis to shut down trapping as a legitimate sporting activity that occupies a place in a sound game management plan and fills a social and economic need - no, the fellow sportsmen are all too willing to do that job themselves.
This thread itself is ample evidence of the self absorbed nature of many "sportsmen". This post is ample evidence - let's ban snares because some fellow set them to protect "his" deer and they may cause a problem for "my" dog!

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:39 pm

Yep...dog trumps deer....anyone's dog.

But, ignore as you need, blame as you must....to remain blind to the difference between Trapping and setting traps.

RyanGSP · Post by **RyanGSP** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:45 pm

Agreed dog always trumps deer or coyote. Doesnt matter if its my your dog, or scotts dog.

Noone said there needs to be a sign saying Connibear trap 100 yards ahead in the 3rd bush beside the fallen log. But it would be a good idea to put up " Warning Conibear traps in area".

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:03 pm

Mountaineer wrote:Yep...dog trumps deer....anyone's dog.

But, ignore as you need, blame as you must....to remain blind to the difference between Trapping and setting traps.

My dog, your dog, anyones dog - no ones dog trumps someones right to legally engage in an outdoor pursuit.
If you have illegal trapping activity happening in your area - report it and do what you can to have it stopped. But remember, illegal activities by bad actors have nothing to do with the sport itself. If you have folks that are legally participating in trapping activities and you perceive them to be a nuisance/inconvenience to you - tough tittie.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:30 pm

slistoe wrote:
RyanGSP wrote:I just googles Conibear trap and after seeing the images I agree. Ban them and Ban them now.

Although I will be picking up one of these tools and have learned how to unset one.
Really?
Where were you ban-hammer folks when the antis were crucifying the trapping industry and forcing them into adopting kill sets over the "cruel" leg hold traps.
We eat our own.

Exactly right! Too many times you reap what you sow.nd then the complaining begins. Prpobably the same thing will happen when they ban lead because a bird MIGHT pick it up and eat it. So instead we force a lighter material that we know wounds more birds that end up dying.

Ezzy

RyanGSP · Post by **RyanGSP** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:36 pm

There has never been a confirmed case of a bird dieing from ingesting lead shot.

However there are hundreds of cases of dogs dieing in a conibear.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:53 pm

slistoe wrote:My dog, your dog, anyones dog - no ones dog trumps someones right to legally engage in an outdoor pursuit.

Yep, they do under certain circumstances apparently uncomfortable to you.
Read slower what I said about the difference twixt Trappers and setting traps, then think what you are defending....maybe it will sink in but I believe the likelyhood is slight.
Good luck with that maturity leap tho.
You wish too much to spin attention away from those who represent you poorly.
Perhaps, you should police your own trapping ranks better rather than giving free behavior passes with every trap sale made.
And, I would indeed report an illegal trap set-up....I simply do not wish to discover one of my dogs dead/injured within a trap or snare as a first step in that reporting.

slistoe wrote:If you have folks that are legally participating in trapping activities and you perceive them to be a nuisance/inconvenience to you - tough tittie.

Very classy, and the carefully chosen words of "inconvenience" and "nuisance" which lower the picture of a dog dead or wounded is predictable when spin becomes all that is left....a dog/trap interaction is hardly a guaranteed inconvenient or nuisance level of occurrence, for many I know anyway.
For those for which it is, I feel sorry for them.

I suggest we each mark off the other as a lost cause.
Brethern we are not.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:02 pm

I believe Slistoe clearly stated legally. And then you comeback with the term illegal. Does sound like you read what was written but instead tried to impress us with your written word about a different subject.

Ezzy

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:19 pm

Well, after so long of forth and back I expect that many can either misspeak or read a comment incorrectly...I would certainly not be immune.
And, I reckon, one could cherrypick much from many posts were the time available and need important to them.
Plus, legal or illegal means little to a dead dog....but surely most understand that simple fact.
However, I'm pretty happy with the sum total of everything I posted from Day One and more correctly, I'm content with the intent behind the words.
Many or most even, may well disagree or seek to spin words or spin away from inconvenient truths, but one will have all that.
As I said, I have marked off the lost causes.

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:53 pm

The only spin on here is coming from Mountaineer. Perhaps there is no barb wire in his part of the country. Here we are loaded with it. I had to put down a very nice horse after an encounter with it. A buddies dog was blinded by it. There are countless dogs every year with severe and even life ending injuries from it. Perhaps we need to ban barb wire. Those inconsiderate ranchers.

Currently in my area folks can get damage control permits to place cyanide guns on their property. Signage at the gate is required for any parcel of land it is on - one sign for a section of land that is accessible to dogs and birdhunters anywhere on the 4 miles of its perimeter. I really do hope that I never have a dog run across one of those. But I am not going to go around calling for a ban on legally placed cyanide guns, barb wire or traps.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:36 pm

RyanGSP wrote:I just googles Conibear trap and after seeing the images I agree. Ban them and Ban them now.

Although I will be picking up one of these tools and have learned how to unset one.

i got mine today, its small one. very well made in stainless steel. worth peace of mind. we may never use it but i feel better having it in my coat.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:42 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:I've had dogs caught in foot hold traps no damage to go to a vet for,I think it scares the dog more then it hurts,after the initial catch & the dog quits pulling really not much to it.
The only thing we had to show for it was the teeth marks in the stock of my SKB so ga O/U.That was an E setter my GSPS never paid much attention other then trying to get their foot loose.
You can stick your hand in most foot hold traps with very little if any pain,any way I can & have seen others do the same,but I been told by Drs,chiropractors,& others I have a HIGH Threshold for pain.

yes, put coat over dogs head or you could be heading to the emegency , like i did.
coil set traps most of time do not hurt our dogs BUT if they use drag hooks on traps, THEY CAN.

these traps a dog can drag them until it hooks the brush.
toby my lab tore his middle digit off, it cost me 700 to remove rest of his toe.
he now limps around house with missing toe.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:47 pm

MN Bonasa wrote:I recently watched a segment on a local news channel about a hunter who just about lost his dog do a trap along a well used trail. Instead of buying one of the trap setters he used a heavy industrial strength cable tie. Worked very slick, as you would squeeze the ends with one hand pull the zip tie with the other. The zip tie also keeps it together so you don't even have to try and get the safety ring attached. Very fast and effencient and the cable ties weigh next to nothing. There is a movement here in minnesota by Dog owners who hunt to ban 220's or at least get them 5' off the ground. I've read to many articles about dogs being killed by these and it is keeping me out of the grouse woods now because you have no idea where they could be set. I sure hope something happens soon, sure would be nice to be in the woods without that having to be on the mind, a hunter with a dog has enough to deal with when handling the pooch in the woods/field. We shouldn't have to worry that every time fido sticks his head into some brush they could get their neck snapped!

tiebands are shown used on dead animal.our dogs could struggle in trap.ron said the tiebands are known to break.
if you have real heavy duty ones and able to squezze trap,they could work fine.
220 is not easy to squezze then push tieband. 330 is impossible.
then you have to worry if tieband will break while you are releasing your dog from trap .

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:59 pm

folks, we need trappers. having our late grouse season in same time as trapping season, is a concern.never was with spring set or snare sets.
some staates allowing conibears on land is nuts unless they band all dogs from woods then.
i could go along with that but who is going to make sure dogs are not in area with conibears.

with snares and the spring traps, i see no need for conibears on LAND.
in water i feel they should be required to post a sign even tho some will steal traps.
that is what will happen, they will steal them.or we will just have to avoid areas that conibears are set.near water in pa.
but states that allow them on LAND, boy thats tough one.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:37 am

What IF DNR structured trapping season AFTER the Upland Season closed or last week of it?

Pelts would also be prime, and then let trapping season begin.

Seems sensible to me.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:56 am

Rockstar wrote:What IF DNR structured trapping season AFTER the Upland Season closed or last week of it?

Pelts would also be prime, and then let trapping season begin.

Seems sensible to me.

i agree. maybe we could give up week earlier for trappers.
also no trap can be used near a hiking trail etc or parking lots etc.
this would allow hikers and the walkers to walk their dogs. proble is trapper needs early season as when snow/cold comes, trapping getsa little harder.
this is why the conibears work good on land with head set on animal. trapping starts in some of cold states in oct do to snow etc..

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:01 am

Does anybody think that dogs could trained to avoid like snake breaking?

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:24 am

Train them to avoid the bait.

RyanGSP · Post by **RyanGSP** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:29 am

Too many baits to train in to be effective. All it would take is for a trapper to try something new and your back to square one.

Its a good idea though.

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:45 am

No, the idea would be that the dog will absolutely not eat anything that you, the trainer, have not given it. That is how the trainers avoided losing their dogs to strychnine on the prairies - as I am told by my father who helped train as a small child by offering raw steak to the dogs on the line.

RyanGSP · Post by **RyanGSP** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:02 am

Let me know how that works out. I havent met a dog yet that hasnt picked up something and tried to eat it in the field let alone bait meant to attract and lure animals into the trap.

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:40 am

I'm not the one decrying the use of traps in areas I would like to hunt. Just putting out information to those who would prefer to ban a legitimate and legal sporting activity.
Of course the dogs will try to pick up and eat bait. If they didn't they wouldn't need any training not to would they?

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:31 am

slistoe wrote:I'm not the one decrying the use of traps in areas I would like to hunt. Just putting out information to those who would prefer to ban a legitimate and legal sporting activity.
Of course the dogs will try to pick up and eat bait. If they didn't they wouldn't need any training not to would they?

Dogs have been trained not to eat anything except that given by their naster for years. I think you will find most police dogs used for drugs and other material are trained that way today.

Ezzy

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:31 am

Ezzy,

I have a good friend that (with his training partner and Schutzhund Worlds Competitor over 3 decades) personally developed the Dual K9 concept dog ie a trained for Both apprehension/patrol AND Drugs. They trained perhaps thousands of K9s and personal protection dogs.

He told me in No Uncertain terms, that the Hardest thing to Train any K9 dog, AND Proof a K9 is Against Poisoning/Eating bait.

The only thing that would and could work is restructuring the Trapping season so it does not coincide with upland season.

We give up a week or 2, and they give up a month or so, but extend into later winter.
Problem solved.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:32 am

Rockstar wrote:Ezzy,
This is wrong. Throw a meatball at a dog, especially a hungr dog, he will take the food most times, even when trained.

I have a good friend that (with his training partner and Schutzhund Worlds Competitor over 3 decades-Only American) personally developed/invented/used the Dual K9 dog ie a trained for Both apprehension/patrol AND Drugs.
They trained perhaps thousands of K9s and personal protection dogs.

He told me in No Uncertain terms, that the Hardest thing to Train any K9 dog, AND Proof a K9 is Against Poisoning/Eating bait.

The only thing that would and could work is restructuring the Trapping season so it does not coincide with upland season.

We give up a week or 2, and they give up a month or so, but extend into later winter.
Problem solved.

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:55 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Does anybody think that dogs could trained to avoid like snake breaking?

slistoe wrote:Train them to avoid the bait.

And thats the answer i think.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:23 pm

Asking a dog to avoid bait, is like asking him to Not Hunt...especially unsupervised.
Aint gonna happen.

MOD-I had 2 duplicate posts..Please remove them, they are in quotes.

Thanks

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:02 pm

Teaching a dog to avoid a smell that's also associated with sight will not hurt it's hunting ability. If it did then all of the dogs who've been through snake breaking wouldn't hunt.

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:46 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Teaching a dog to avoid a smell that's also associated with sight will not hurt it's hunting ability. If it did then all of the dogs who've been through snake breaking wouldn't hunt.

agreed