Apron string syndrome

[Thornapple]

Does anyone have a proven technique for getting a new (to me) three old male out from under a hunter's feet? The former owner took it for walks off lead, but the dog never strayed away from them. I am trying to get this dog to want to push out. I am aware hunting over running cock pheasants can help, but not always. Besides I do not want to wait until hunting season to determine if that works, and it is very expensive to use pen raised pheasant for this. Does any have a suggestion that they have actually used with success?

[Mountaineer]

What distance represents "under foot" in this case and, if a bird dog, then what is the breed and has it been hunted?

[kninebirddog]

Is the dog birdy?
This is what I would go find out..If the dog doesn't like birds then you have a nice pet.
If the dog likes birds then you let the dog get all excited about seeing and chasing birds and then work on the scenting of birds
basically you start it off like a little puppy...until you get the drive going I wouldn't worry about manners on birds as it sounds like obedience was drilled into the dog meaning a harsh word may cause a set back in building the drive ...A saying I was told a long time ago it is hard to steer a parked car

[Thornapple]

Yes, the dog has been hunted occasionaly over birds: chucker, quail, and preserve pheasants; enough to emonstrate it has the prerequisite inherent skills. Yes, the dog is "birdie".
So I get back to my question, does anyone have an effective technique for getting a bird to push out?

[mountaindogs]

Well many dogs who have not been hunted do stick close by as they do not realize there is something to look for. Then when they realize WHY they are there they become a new dog and hunt bigger and with more enthusiasm. THAT is what everyone trying to help was HOPING you situation was since it is a much easier fix. And since you didn't specify initially.
an under foot dog could be the result of over handling, so you could try giving NO commands, turns, call backs or talking at all for a while. Giving total freedom. Some dogs will get confused though and stop and watch you'll have to stay silent and keep walking through that.
An underfoot dog could be out of shape and you could road the. And get them used to pulling and then they may drive out a little harder.
An underfoot dog may lack experience and confidence, Which goes back to others posts and my first suggestion.
you can try running them off of 4 wheeler to speed them up, but they may just run and quit looking for birds....
Or obedience and steadiness may have been overdone too early and you can back off on steadiness.
Some dogs hunt bigger with another dog around who also hunts big - but be careful they do not just follow
Or the dog could just be a close working dog and you will not be much able to change it.

[Mountaineer]

Unknown breed and distance the dog lingers?
Questions can indicate any next step....which may not always be of a training nature.
For some, 25 yards may be considered under foot and for others, knocking the dog's nose with your heel may be the issue.
Evaluating well usually leads to the best answer for any dog, every time....and often, for the hunter.
That, in the case of an older and new to you dog, includes the dog's history...of all manner.

I would take the dog to a trainer to evaluate and indicate a direction.
Many available to you just north in Pennsylvania
Barring that, I might consider a carded bird or something else that may build, or indicate, some interest past a sniff.

My last 4 setters have been "new-to-me" pups...one 3 years old, one 4, one 8 and one 6 or 7.
The last had epilepsy and did not make the next hunting season.
The others had old opportunities and, often, older training.
They all carried challenges as well as satisfaction and outright joy at returning a dog to the field and allowing genetics to win out.
As dogs vary, none found any single magic key that clicked a lock open.

It appears that I don't have that magic key you require in this instance.
Good luck to all involved, in finding the light bulb lit.

[roaniecowpony]

His profile says he has Spinoni's. Wikipedia says its known as the "Italian Griffon" or wirehair.

[mountaindogs]

The breed is notoriuosly close working if that is the breed of this particular dog. Could be something else, but odds are its genetic and you might get a touch of improvement but don't expect the moon from the star. If no other issues are known and the dog is not "broke " yet just work on confidence and drive building. Let the energy level get very high, let the dog chase, and try to have birds further away from you or just on the edge of the dogs comfort zone. If the dog is broke I can not really advise much without a lot more detail.

[birddogger]

The breed is notoriuosly close working if that is the breed of this particular dog. Could be something else, but odds are its genetic and you might get a touch of improvement but don't expect the moon from the star. If no other issues are known and the dog is not "broke " yet just work on confidence and drive building. Let the energy level get very high, let the dog chase, and try to have birds further away from you or just on the edge of the dogs comfort zone. If the dog is broke I can not really advise much without a lot more detail.

+1.

Charlie

[Ruffshooter]

I do not know what breed but regardless.

I would just go to a field where you can watch him and is safe just let him loose let him explore stuff on his own. It sounds like a no confidence issue or he is overly sensitive to change.

Just take him to the same field over and over again.

You might even by some pigeons or quail or chuckars and put them out there before you bring the dog out and then just sit down have a beer or two and let him to what he wants.

He will know where you are all the time each time.

Also, Don't know if you try encouraging him to move out. If so don't just be quiet. don't say a word.
I had a guy at one of our training clinics that had a spinone and he kept pestering the dog, "okay, come on, up front, lets go, good boy etc. He never shut up so to in not to many words told him to keep quiet after a bit the dog started to move out some. He got out about 40yards or so which was 3 time further than when we started. Then when he hit a couple of bird we planted he started getting out 50 to 60.

May not work but worth a shot or two.

[birddogger]

Make sure there are birds to be found when you take him to a field. Walk him to the birds if you have to and let him chase if he will. I would also carry a few birds in a bird bag to tease him with and then release to let him chase (pigeons would be the best). There are other things you can do to bring out his prey drive if it is there and get him bird crazy. But I would never expect much range out of Spinone. Not knocking the breed but it is just a fact.

[RoostersMom]

Running him with another dog will help as well. Other dog that ranges where you like + finding birds far from you = more range. How about using an automated launcher out in the field (or a couple) and then popping birds out of there as he starts to range that way. For me though, the other dog has been the key.

[Thornapple]

roostersmom,
Sorry for the delay in responding, but I am trying that now that it is cooler and it seems to work. So thank you!
Thornapple