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Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Wyobohunter » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:51 am

Just wondering if any of you use the bird/waterfowl dog to dog coyotes. It's something I'm interested in trying.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby slistoe » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:44 am

How would you plan to use a single dog for coyotes?
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Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Wyobohunter » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:04 pm

I also have a Rottweiler/lab/something else mix that is very trainable so I probably wouldn't. Do you use your bird dog/s for this or are you just being a Debby downer?
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Mountaineer » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:46 pm

I'll be a downer :D ...can't imagine a single positive that would arrive from using a bird dog, pointer or not, to chase coyotes.
Horses for courses would best apply.
However, I would expect that some dual feather/fur models of canines would find success of a considerable measure.
Actually though, the entire process would be insulting to many bird dogs, to a degree, and could run counter to a well-run day afield.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby slistoe » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:23 pm

I've known a number of folks who dog coyotes and have been along on many hunts. I am not sure what you mean - no one sends one dog alone after a coyote no matter what breed it is.
Do you mean you want to use your dog as a decoy/bait?
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby ACooper » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:26 pm

I have heard of people using various "bird dogs" as decoy dogs. Decoy dogs normally work alone they are less intimidating that way.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby aulrich » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:32 pm

I believe the German vdog hunt test require the dog to show "sharpness" vs predators what that means exactly I could not tell you. At least one of the test include a 400 yard fox retrieve.

The guys running DD's would know way better.

I get the feeling Versatile in North America is a pointer that swims.


It's illegal here to hunt coyotes with dogs so it's not really on my radar, would you run them or toll for them?
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Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Wyobohunter » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:35 pm

I'm talking about using my dog or dogs as a decoy, not chasing them down. Just to lead them to me.
Sorry, I made the mistake of assuming most of you would know exactly what I meant. At least one of these dogs looks like a lab. I wonder if be duck hunts too.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=ldCa4z_4UqE

Apparently coyotes hate dogs in their territory, especially in the summer. I hear they (the coyotes) also lose some of their normal inhibitions when trying to run a dog out of an area.

I believe "sharpness" means willing to kill and do it efficiently... Like I said, I believe. My intent isn't really for sharpness, that's what the rifle is for.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Mountaineer » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:32 pm

Being considered bait for a coyote was the insulting part. :idea:
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby JWP58 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:35 pm

Mountaineer wrote:I'll be a downer :D ...can't imagine a single positive that would arrive from using a bird dog, pointer or not, to chase coyotes.
.


Not everyone uses hounds to run yotes. Some people use decoy dogs to bait them in close....

But since it sounds like you know everything about everything....whatever....

Don't worry WYO, this mountaineer guy is a grade A dipstick (im putting that as mildly as possible).
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Duckdog » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:18 pm

I am by no means an expert, but...yes, it could be done.
BUT, it would depend on the dog. You wouldn't want a dog that's just going to run out and fight coyotes. That could end badly. Sometimes they mix it up a bit, but the ultimate goal is to have the dog work (tease) the coyote closer. When there are multiple coyotes, the goal is to work them ALL into range. SOMETIMES, when there's a dog involved (working the coyotes), they CAN BE oblivious to the shot.
There are A LOT of variables involved, and like I wrote above, I am NO expert, but that's the "nutshell" version.
Also...what CAN happen is your dog runs head long into the "WRONG" coyote and you bury the dog. It can happen.
You might find a little more info about it here...

http://www.thenpha.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

http://www.forum.workingdogsworldwide.com/
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Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Wyobohunter » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:30 pm

Thanks Duckdog and JWP. It isn't something I'm dead set on. Just toying with the idea. I love hunting predators and thought this may add to the fun. Of course, I'd want to keep it to coyote only country (may not be possible here). Wouldn't want my dogs messing around with even one of these.

I shot this one
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370312910.271419.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370312910.271419.jpg (82.53 KiB) Viewed 1858 times



Someone else shot this one pretty close to my house here in WY
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370312977.124320.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370312977.124320.jpg (89.01 KiB) Viewed 1858 times


I suppose everything is a calculated risk eh.
Last edited by Wyobohunter on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby JWP58 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:40 pm

I know some people use labs. Personally as long as you can handle the dog, I don't see why you couldn't. Would I? No. Because my hamster Brittany would be deadmeat if I missed.

p.s., Im in Wyoming too (other side of the state). If you happen to bump into any chukars around flaming gorge let me know! (I've heard rumors)
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Duckdog » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:50 pm

I'll bet your "hampster" is bigger than this one! ;)
Image
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Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Wyobohunter » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:09 am

Chukars around Flaming Gorge you say? I'll definitely let you know if I do. I haven't heard that one but I'll keep an eye out now.
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Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Wyobohunter » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:50 am

Mountaineer wrote:Actually though, the entire process would be insulting to many bird dogs...


That is called personification. Because you personally view this as somehow lower on the hunting hierarchy you are assuming your dog would feel insulted. I bet our $800 dogs don't know they are supposed to be snobs.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby david0311 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:12 pm

Wyobohunter wrote:Thanks Duckdog and JWP. It isn't something I'm dead set on. Just toying with the idea. I love hunting predators and thought this may add to the fun. Of course, I'd want to keep it to coyote only country (may not be possible here). Wouldn't want my dogs messing around with even one of these.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370312910.271419.jpg

I shot this one

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370312977.124320.jpg

Someone else shot this one pretty close to my house here in WY

I suppose everything is a calculated risk eh.


You are rying to jerk our chain---I hope :roll:
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Sniper John » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:49 pm

Yes. I used my elder Vizsla Blaze as a passive decoy dog for about two years. But she is a special dog. Before she lost her vision she was used not only for upland, waterfowl, and fur, but also for Turkey and stalking hogs.
Never in any danger. I would describe it more as a "dances with wolves" appearance. Its a game to the dog. My young vizsla I have no desire to train for it.
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Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Wyobohunter » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:57 am

david0311 wrote:
Wyobohunter wrote:Thanks Duckdog and JWP. It isn't something I'm dead set on. Just toying with the idea. I love hunting predators and thought this may add to the fun. Of course, I'd want to keep it to coyote only country (may not be possible here). Wouldn't want my dogs messing around with even one of these.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370312910.271419.jpg

I shot this one

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370312977.124320.jpg

Someone else shot this one pretty close to my house here in WY

I suppose everything is a calculated risk eh.


You are rying to jerk our chain---I hope :roll:


What makes you think that? I guess I don't understand your question. If you are talking about wolves in Wyoming... No, I'm serious, they are around. If you are talking about calculated risk, also serious. Everything you send your dog out to do is has some associated risk. Running around wolf country acting like a decoy is probably going to land in the more than acceptable risk category for me though. Or I'll just work her really close kind of like sniper John so if we do bring in a wolf I can blast it before it gets too close to my dog/s.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby david0311 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:12 am

Wyobohunter wrote:
david0311 wrote:
Wyobohunter wrote:Thanks Duckdog and JWP. It isn't something I'm dead set on. Just toying with the idea. I love hunting predators and thought this may add to the fun. Of course, I'd want to keep it to coyote only country (may not be possible here). Wouldn't want my dogs messing around with even one of these.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370312910.271419.jpg

I shot this one

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370312977.124320.jpg

Someone else shot this one pretty close to my house here in WY

I suppose everything is a calculated risk eh.


You are rying to jerk our chain---I hope :roll:


What makes you think that? I guess I don't understand your question. If you are talking about wolves in Wyoming... No, I'm serious, they are around. If you are talking about calculated risk, also serious. Everything you send your dog out to do is has some associated risk. Running around wolf country acting like a decoy is probably going to land in the more than acceptable risk category for me though. Or I'll just work her really close kind of like sniper John so if we do bring in a wolf I can blast it before it gets too close to my dog/s.


Sorry :oops: :oops: Thought you were spoofing the thread about coyote hunting by holding up the Timbers--didn't read close enough---how long has Wy. had season on wolves? Had first one in years here in MN. last year--
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Mountaineer » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:18 pm

Wyobohunter wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:Actually though, the entire process would be insulting to many bird dogs...


That is called personification. Because you personally view this as somehow lower on the hunting hierarchy you are assuming your dog would feel insulted. I bet our $800 dogs don't know they are supposed to be snobs.


True.
But I did not mean to imply that using a dog in any particular manner would be interpreted by the dog in any particular way.
I, personally, make the judgment of insulting relative to any dog being used as bait.
Actually, I'm quite happy with that decision.
Naturally, not everyone will see a dog through the same eyes.

Not sure I understand you implication re $800.
Sounds like either the comment made by a snob or an anti-snob.
Neither being admirable, imho.
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Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Wyobohunter » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:11 pm

I just meant that that is how much my dog cost me. And I doubt she knows or cares.

I believe wolves have been fair game for a bit over a year now. In a sizable portion of northwest Wyoming they are considered trophy game and there is a limit/license required. For most of the state they are considered predators which means no license, no limit, no closed season.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby JWP58 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:11 pm

Mountaineer wrote:Sounds like either the comment made by a snob or an anti-snob.
Neither being admirable, imho.



That's what's called Irony. Or the pot calling the kettle black. The most snobbish, holier than thou person on this forum.....making such a comment....priceless.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby ACooper » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:08 pm

Mountaineer wrote:I, personally, make the judgment of insulting relative to any dog being used as bait.
Actually, I'm quite happy with that decision.
Naturally, not everyone will see a dog through the same eyes.


By the way you use the term "bait", I am curious if you know how decoy dogs work?
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Mountaineer » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:22 pm

ACooper wrote:...By the way you use the term "bait", I am curious if you know how decoy dogs work?


Poor word choice, I agree.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Sniper John » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:23 am

Dogs are not used as bait. My grandfather was a houndsman in the 1950s. He used scent hounds on his truck to locate, then track. Then greyhound and wolf hound crosses and who knows what else where turned loose. The sight hounds would chase, catch, and kill the yote. This is not what decoy dogs do. Nor does decoy dog work involve staking a dog in a field as "bait" which would be cruel and unfair to the dog.

Decoy dogs are more like tollers. They tease the coyote in a playful game of tag catch me if you can. They may chase and nip at each other, but they don't fight it out like with a wolfhound. The main purpose is to distract the coyotes attention away from the hunter and bring the coyote within range for the kill. A trained decoy dog has to be able to be under the control of the handler, know when it is getting over it's head, and should have a perfect recall. Coyotes are still located and or called in by the handler. Most decoy dogs will range a good distance, even out of sight to engage the coyote and toll him back to the shooter.

I saw the term "passive" decoy dog written somewhere and that better describes how my dog was used. During a predator calling session, she was to either sit at my side or stay nearby in voice range, and under my control. Sometimes a coyote would charge right in so focused on the dog, I think I could have got up doing jumping jacks and the coyote would not have noticed me. More often they would hang up and my dog would be sent on to engage in a game of dances with wolves. Then recalled with a whistle usually with the coyote in tow. Once clear the coyote shot. I don't think my dog ever ranged farther than 100 yards and only once did I ever have a coyote not come in to the dog. I believe to a coyote the dog is just another coyote. It never had any ill effect on my bird hunting. When I have had the occasional curious coyote show up during bird hunts, my dog ignored them as she should.

I do not think decoy dogs are very breed specific, but most are going to be curs and cattle dog types and related mutts that do have some related background in their genetics. With exeptions, I would not expect very many pointing dogs to have the background in them to make good decoy dogs. Training alone would be difficult. IMHO, there has to be some natural tolling in them to work with.
Last edited by Sniper John on Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Sniper John » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:30 am

Image

Image
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Sniper John » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:40 am

Here is Blaze with her Arkyoter predator call. She is such a diva that I will never give in and say it in front of her, but I have to admit. She can call better than me.
Like I said, she is a special dog.

Image
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Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Wyobohunter » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:22 am

Love it. Thanks Sniper John.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby DustinK » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:19 pm

I didn't intend on using my dog for coyotes but it seems like every time we went out this winter he ended up jumping one up and then the chase was on. :x
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby CDN_Cocker » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:28 am

Duckdog wrote:I'll bet your "hampster" is bigger than this one! ;)
Image

I don't think there is a predator out there a JRT couldn't handle. I had one as a kid, those dogs are freakin tough despite their small size. I'd bet on a jack every time against a bigger dog or animal being hunted.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby tdhusker » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:42 pm

A friend who runs hounds on coyotes has a GWP that he runs right with them. The GWP can't keep up but has great endurance, always ends up with the pack by the time the kill dog comes into play. Really no point in running her with the hounds other than he just loves her for her endurance. She is a servicable bird dog, could've been a great one with the right training.
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Re: Anyone use their bird dog for coyotes too?

Postby Jdub389 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:24 pm

Check out the Wachtelhund. one of the most versatile dogs out there. People use them for coyotes, grouse, ducks, and rabbits. Pretty awesome dog.

http://deutscherwachtelhund.org/

If you want to see them hunting/baiting coyotes just google wachtelhund coyote hunting.
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