But wait ... what would you pay?

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But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Scott Linden » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:52 pm

Just had a fascinating conversation with a frustrated hunter, lamenting the poor quality of public hunting land. After traveling over 500 miles, spending $1,000 for a hotel, feeding eight dogs, spouse and himself for a couple weeks he was still unhappy with the bird numbers and crappy habitat mis-managed by public agencies.

If that was you, after investing in guns, ammo, dogs, truck, fuel, etc. ... how much would you be willing to pay a landowner for a day of hunting if you knew his habitat was well-managed?
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:05 pm

$50.00 a day per man is my max. Obviously, I don't hunt a lot of private land. I like public land and if you do your homework, there's a lot od darn fine public land out there. The birds are going to be a LOT harder, but I like that. I will NEVER pay a landowner $150.00 and up a day to hunt his freakin' land.
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by RoostersMom » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:10 pm

Haven't really paid yet, but will in December for a duck hunt. We almost always hunt public land (here and in outside states) - we also both donate to PF and QF for habitat projects - many of which occur on public land.

I don't know if I'd pay for upland hunting or not - I guess if it was a 20 covey day, I'd do it.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:22 pm

Depends upon how much ground is opened up, hunting pressure, if birds are actually in the area and the quality of the habitat but $20 seems enough.

If this fella had a couple of weeks or so to hunt, 8 dogs and only drove 500 miles, I would say he was lucky and well able to drive somewhere else that might offer more, even on public or open-to-the-public land....he might even be judged a bit to picky as to bird numbers given that initial description.
Actually, I think a lot of birdhunters love to complain, about everything from state/federal game and habitat management to whatever irks them...especially while getting in the particulars of their situation...money spent, et al.
Basically, if this fella's happiness hinged upon a bent tailgate rather than two weeks larking about with birddogs then that would well cement my opinion and I would simply suggest no further than a Gazatteer.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Neil » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:44 pm

If you are going to hunt quail in Texas, you are going to pay.

In time it will be that way throughout the country. There is no logic in expecting taxpayers to furnish us with land and game to hunt. Private landowners should be compensated.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by birdhunter68 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:50 pm

Scott.....good topic and timely.
Until recently I had never paid to hunt private land.....
My usual method was asking permission and spending time developing a relationship with the various landowners across the prairie and back home in KY.

Last season I made a connection with a fine gent who has enrolled his ground in the CREP program in KY. I asked if he was seeing any quail in his fields and he responded....."yes I have lots of birds and your welcome to hunt"
I said sounds good......he replied....."what do you think is a fair rate for hunting access"?

I was curious.....as have never paid to hunt wild birds and this was the first time the subject had come up in my 35+ years of upland hunting.

He said $100 was his day rate.....I said that's a hefty rate....he replied come on down and see first hand how many coveys are on my land and you'll be glad....

I agreed and so glad I did......had several good hunts last year and our best day was 10 coveys (wild birds) on his farm.

Now.....my wife would have my hide if I paid that every time I hunted.....but to gain access to this farm, I will shell out a Benjamin every so often....

Reed Pendleton

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by cbump » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:55 am

I would gladly pay $150 for good private ground. Saves me from the guess work and uncertainty involved with traveling to another state on limited time.
Btw, looking for a place to hunt quail or pheasant after thanksgiving so if you know anywhere within about 12 hours of North Texas for $150 a day or less, let me know! :D

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by slistoe » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:59 am

Glad I live in Alberta where charging for access to public game is still illegal.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by deke » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:16 am

I don't pay to hunt. Lost my best duck spot last year cause some guys offers him two hundred dollars for the season. I could of matched it and got my spot but didn't on principal.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by bonasa » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:11 am

I don't pay to hunt. However if I were to charge to let hunters on my land I would do so at a rate of 50$ a day.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by mm » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:41 am

If the land is managed and the amount of hunters is restricted and there is game I would pay what I had too. I would not be upset to pay as much as 300 a day for the right property. I would think if a guy charges 20 or 50 a day he would let anyone who can get there hunt and you are back to hunting public land basicly . I hunt public land and it is good so for a small fee I would stick to public. But I would pay for real rights to exclusive land that had birds. I have given up on free private land and don't even try anymore. It is to much to drive a couple thousand miles and start looking for owners. What I will say about paying is I can do without fancy lodges and sporting clays and fancy meals which drive up costs. I don't want guides and I don't want to be mixed in with another group because I am a single.

I have just Paid for private land access for a quail hunt that I will be going on in December this is my first time paying and I am hoping it meets my expectations and is everything the landowner manager promised.
mm

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by rkappes » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:19 am

I think a lot of it depends on how you judge a successful day in the field. Is it shooting a bunch of birds or just enjoying the outdoors with a good dog? Some of my best days hunting I didn't kill a thing. The gentlemen above sounds like he would of been better off hunting at a preserve, would of saved him $$$ and he would of had plenty of birds. Granted not wild.

Seems like in today's world everyone wants to shoot a limit in an hour while walking in ankle high grass.

For myself, I like the unknown and don't want any guarantees. In our area we have wonderful public land, lots of it, and great bird numbers.

I'd be interested to know if the gentlemen above that is complaining about public land actually contributes anything to the success of public land? Around here we always have people complaining but not many step up to the plate to change things. Some of us do.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by mm » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:52 am

You should reread my post I said nothing that you gathered from my post. I said I do hunt public land. I did not say I needed or wanted to kill a lot of birds. I answered the question as to what I would pay and I further explained what I would expect for the price. I have hunted many a day with no bird contact and enjoyed it and I have hunted many days with lots of wild bird contact and enjoyed it more and I will not be sorry for enjoying it more even if you think there is something wrong with finding birds. I have also hunted preserves a couple of times.

I think paying to hunt private land is ok, a person that owns the land has expenses and rights to privacy and to exclude others from his land. He can charge what he wants people can turn there nose up and walk away but it is his land. Some are lucky enough to have private land contacts or live in good areas with friends who own land. Others like me live far from real wild bird hunting and have limited time, thousands are spent on dogs, trucks and other equipment, I don't expect private ground to be free and in the absence of good public ground I will be willing to pay. Don't get me wrong I will take free if I can get it. I hunt public in Montana every year but free aint always easy.
mm

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by GrayDawg » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:05 am

If the landowner had Grouse or Woodcock on their property, I'd pay them $75/day to hunt it
so long as there was enough acreage to support a 1/2 day hunt.
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by MJB64 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:38 am

"feeding eight dogs, spouse and himself for a couple weeks"
Would they not have been fed if he had stayed home? Sounds like he did not do his homework.
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by jimbo&rooster » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:47 am

Unfortunately this is quickly becoming the world we live in. I have lost literally hundreds of acres of good bird hunting due to landowners leasing it out to deer hunters. Am I not willing to match couple grand a year some of these deerleases go for? Im not gona lie, if its gona cost me $100 a day to chase birds Ill buy birds at the game farm. While it is well within the rights of a land owner to do as they please with their ground Im not going to fund their next vacation.

Now, I suppose if I lived someplace where I couldnt go out and count on running up a couple of covies a day on public land I might view things a little differently.

To be honest I am more interested in haveing places to run dogs from Feb-Oct than I am in having places to hunt, and I rarely have any issues finding training grounds.

I just find it difficult to even justify handing a $20 bill to a land owner to chase birds, even if the land owner was managing that property specifically for birds I wouldnt feel right about it....

Looking back at the OP I guess If I weree going to travel 500 miles to hunt birds it might be worth a few hundred bucks to hunt for a week. but locally I cant fathom it

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by cjhills » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:50 am

birdhunter68 wrote:Scott.....good topic and timely.
Until recently I had never paid to hunt private land.....
My usual method was asking permission and spending time developing a relationship with the various landowners across the prairie and back home in KY.

Last season I made a connection with a fine gent who has enrolled his ground in the CREP program in KY. I asked if he was seeing any quail in his fields and he responded....."yes I have lots of birds and your welcome to hunt"
I said sounds good......he replied....."what do you think is a fair rate for hunting access"?

I was curious.....as have never paid to hunt wild birds and this was the first time the subject had come up in my 35+ years of upland hunting.

He said $100 was his day rate.....I said that's a hefty rate....he replied come on down and see first hand how many coveys are on my land and you'll be glad....

I agreed and so glad I did......had several good hunts last year and our best day was 10 coveys (wild birds) on his farm.

Now.....my wife would have my hide if I paid that every time I hunted.....but to gain access to this farm, I will shell out a Benjamin every so often....

Reed Pendleton
So, this farmer is in the CREP program and also charges for access. My understanding is that you couldn't do both. Pheasant limit is still about 2 or 3 birds. Not worth $200 to me. I can almost always find a few somewhere...................................Cj

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by cbump » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:56 am

I think if some of you lived in Texas or states with no birds, you'd think differently. Alot of y'all have it made. Don't take it for granted.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by rkappes » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:07 am

mm wrote:You should reread my post I said nothing that you gathered from my post. I said I do hunt public land. I did not say I needed or wanted to kill a lot of birds. I answered the question as to what I would pay and I further explained what I would expect for the price. I have hunted many a day with no bird contact and enjoyed it and I have hunted many days with lots of wild bird contact and enjoyed it more and I will not be sorry for enjoying it more even if you think there is something wrong with finding birds. I have also hunted preserves a couple of times.

I think paying to hunt private land is ok, a person that owns the land has expenses and rights to privacy and to exclude others from his land. He can charge what he wants people can turn there nose up and walk away but it is his land. Some are lucky enough to have private land contacts or live in good areas with friends who own land. Others like me live far from real wild bird hunting and have limited time, thousands are spent on dogs, trucks and other equipment, I don't expect private ground to be free and in the absence of good public ground I will be willing to pay. Don't get me wrong I will take free if I can get it. I hunt public in Montana every year but free aint always easy.
mm

Hey bud! My post wasn't directed toward you. I didn't quote you or reference your name. Just thinking out loud...giving my 2 cents.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by rkappes » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:10 am

When I said "gentlemen above" I should of said the gentlemen mentioned in the first/original post, not you mm...sorry dude.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:44 am

I want to clarify, I can't afford to pay ANYONE $150.00 a day to hunt birds. But that's just me. The may you pay land owners, the more they want. The more they charge, the fewer of us can afford to hunt. They're all ready subsidized by me through the govt. I think I've all ready done my fair share.

Maybe it's not so bad living in Wi. after all. :roll:
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by whatsnext » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:02 am

If we want wild birds then we have to make it worth it to the land owners somehow, i have paid to chase wild birds the past two years and as long as i can go out and move some birds and have plenty of land to run the dogs i will. If funds were managed properly and you had to pay 500-1000 dollars a year for a hunting license but you knew you could go out and have good habitat with a healthy bird population how would that not be worth the money spent ?

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by duckn66 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:24 am

This is brought up on many forums.

Eventually by paying for trespass rights we will end up pricing ourselves out of hunting. The price will be driven by those with money. I for one like to hunt more than once a month. And, I also don't consider a successful hunt a tailgate full of dead birds.

Be careful because eventually we will all be priced out of hunting. It may be good for you now but how are future generations going to be able to afford it?

For those of you who pay a 100 dollars or more for a hunt how often a month do you hunt? 5-6 times a month? I can't afford that.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by cjhills » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:32 am

duckn66 wrote:This is brought up on many forums.

Eventually by paying for trespass rights we will end up pricing ourselves out of hunting. The price will be driven by those with money. I for one like to hunt more than once a month. And, I also don't consider a successful hunt a tailgate full of dead birds.

Be careful because eventually we will all be priced out of hunting. It may be good for you now but how are future generations going to be able to afford it?

For those of you who pay a 100 dollars or more for a hunt how often a month do you hunt? 5-6 times a month? I can't afford that.

Many are already priced out of hunting. a 5 day trip to Sd for a family of 4 will cost around five grand on $100 dollar a gun/day + lodging, license and gas
no wonder we are losing people who want to hunt. I would like to buy a season long license and would pay three or four times as much if half the fee was returned to the land owners for access. Youth license need to be kept lower. We can't compete with corporate hunting trips for their top employees..............cj

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:01 am

Naturally, pay to hunt will never be the rule in hunting gamebirds or other critters across the country.
Silly to believe so given the wide variety of habitat and habitat ownership.
Also silly to believe that the practice will not increase as more "hunters" wish to guarantee success by the measure of dead stuff in their truck...especially so in the East with Deer and Turkey growing as competitions and near-cults.

The problem really arises as the Texas Leasing model does not work everywhere yet it continues to be tried.
Some of the losers are the recruitment of young hunters and, often, as with the ruffed grouse....the gamebirds themselves.
Leasing in the Apps. has worked it's negatives on Bonasa U in addition to the traditional negative factors of habitat and weather.
Giving in to the belief that pay to play is a given, serves no one well...especially gamebirds.

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Post by mrtyde » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:52 pm

I can't justify paying those prices to hunt. I do travel out of state once a year to grouse hunt and couldn't imagine paying an added fee to have a place to hunt once I get there. Ohio is getting really bad on this land leasing(mainly for deer and turkey) and it makes it difficult for someone wanting to bird hunt.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:33 pm

A few years ago a friend of mine payed $20,000.00 for a Texas quail lease (with three other guys). They shot, I believe, five quail off the lease. Rich man's game.
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by JWP58 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:38 pm

I would gladly pay 50-100 bucks for a days hunt if it held a few coveys.
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Ruffshooter » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:56 pm

Glad I do not have to pay. Hope never have to. I allow folks on my little piece for deer hunting and as long as they don't shoot me the dogs, house, or wife they are good to go.
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But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by cmc274 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:41 pm

If I could move 5-10 coveys of wild quail a day within two hours of the house in classic looking country, id have no problem throwing down a few hundred dollars several times a year. More if I could enjoy it on horseback. Compare that to the cost of traveling wing shooter or going to a trial for a weekend and running two dogs in two stakes. Where I live, birds are for the most part limited to migrating woodcock or quail that live in the thickest swamp land around.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by azquailhntr » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:06 pm

I guess I should stop complaining about living in the desert! I moved 3 covies within 30 minutes of my house before work this morning all on public land. Aside from the rattle snakes I guess I have it made. 8)

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Neil » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:17 pm

I now understand that we have many God given rights; health insurance, food, shelter, welfare, etc. But I am certain that a place to hunt with habitat improvements is not one of them. As I am against the above give aways for those that will not care for themselves and theirs, I am against urban taxpayers paying for us to hunt.

And to expect landowners to not benefit from all revenue that their holdings might generate is selfish in the extreme.

No one owes us a place to hunt. And then some expect habitat improvements! For free or with taxpayer dollars is truly asking for a welfare state.

All government expendures for hunting; -CRP, CREP, etc. should end beyond Pittman-Robinson funds. P-R is a tax we asked to have, and the only government benefit we should expect.

Pay or don't hunt.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:36 pm

Actually, some Corporate landowners, like Coal and Timber, permitted public hunting in exchange for tax breaks many moons ago....sadly, TIGs and the Deer have often and recently found Corporate searching and finding loopholes to closing the once public acreage.
Some states have Commercial Forest Acts and the like that essentially legislates access on what amounts to private ground....good, hopefully some character does not seek to loophole that away in seeking some extra lucre.....odd, or not so odd, that often it is the older, established folks that freely lay open the wallet.
I wonder if what little bird cover remains or is created by luck on much of the NFs in the East would mean that the NFs should charge a hunting fee....a few must believe so.
Some though may be heaping all land access re hunting in one basket, incorrectly. :idea:

I do hope that any of the federal set-asides never, ever carries a requirement for public hunting as that would be a very bad thing.
Almost as bad as making 14 year-old Johnny pay to hunt....if so, Johnny might wisely choose quoits instead of a 16 gauge.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:23 pm

Neil wrote:
Pay or don't hunt.
And the rich have spoken. Truly, that one line shows us the future of hunting. Glad I'm old. :roll:
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Neil » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:13 am

gonehuntin' wrote:
Neil wrote:
Pay or don't hunt.
And the rich have spoken. Truly, that one line shows us the future of hunting. Glad I'm old. :roll:
I am old, and not rich, but self reliant. I do not believe hunting rights to land is an entitlement, I pay my own way, no one owes me anything.

Over the years I have greatly benefited from government farm subsidies; Soil Bank, CRP, CREEP, etc.without asking who was paying for my gifts. I made friends with 100's of landowners that gave me the use of their land without expectation of any return.

I am now admitting I was wrong.

Other than a welfare queen that also gets aid from her neighbors, I cannot think of anyone that has been the beneficiary of such lavish gifts, for over 50 years I have tromped throughout the US chasing upland game with my dogs, without a thought as to who was paying. Yet I know someone was.

I owe taxpayers and landowners so much.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Vision » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:38 am

Neil wrote:If you are going to hunt quail in Texas, you are going to pay.

In time it will be that way throughout the country. There is no logic in expecting taxpayers to furnish us with land and game to hunt. Private landowners should be compensated.

Private landowners are compensated with subsidies, price supports, land bank payments, lower green belt taxes, grazing allotments on state and federal lands, etc all paid for by the taxpayer. What the farmer needs is a good dose of reality on who actually pays his way.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by ultracarry » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:33 am

Vision wrote:
Neil wrote:If you are going to hunt quail in Texas, you are going to pay.

In time it will be that way throughout the country. There is no logic in expecting taxpayers to furnish us with land and game to hunt. Private landowners should be compensated.

Private landowners are compensated with subsidies, price supports, land bank payments, lower green belt taxes, grazing allotments on state and federal lands, etc all paid for by the taxpayer. What the farmer needs is a good dose of reality on who actually pays his way.
You sound like you have done your homework.

If I were able to find a spot with 10+ coveys I could train on out here I'm pretty sure I would pay 200-300 a day.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by rkappes » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:49 am

ultracarry wrote:
Vision wrote:
Neil wrote:If you are going to hunt quail in Texas, you are going to pay.

In time it will be that way throughout the country. There is no logic in expecting taxpayers to furnish us with land and game to hunt. Private landowners should be compensated.

Private landowners are compensated with subsidies, price supports, land bank payments, lower green belt taxes, grazing allotments on state and federal lands, etc all paid for by the taxpayer. What the farmer needs is a good dose of reality on who actually pays his way.
You sound like you have done your homework.

If I were able to find a spot with 10+ coveys I could train on out here I'm pretty sure I would pay 200-300 a day.
Dang! You'd pay $300 per day? For me that would be $4,500+ per month.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by jimbo&rooster » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:55 am

[quote="Vision

Private landowners are compensated with subsidies, price supports, land bank payments, lower green belt taxes, grazing allotments on state and federal lands, etc all paid for by the taxpayer. What the farmer needs is a good dose of reality on who actually pays his way.[/quote]

^^^YES^^^

In addition, to the fact that every acre of CRP of government set aside is a cash rent payment by the federal govt. That certainly isnt coming out of the piggy banks of any senators. Sure its compensation for taking land out of production, but our CRP ground makes as much or more than some of our crop land. We sure as heck know who pays our bills, or in the case of the govt shut down, we knew who wasn't.

I would say that any farmer/land owner who is charging someone to hunt by the day or season should be required to pay an income tax on what they make. further more if they are charging me to hunt than they should also by law be required to carry proof of some form of LLC as well as Insurance to cover any injuries I may incure while on their land.

Jim
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by L.B.C » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:17 am

Well down here in the great state of Ga. We pay for a licenses that generate a lot of money that was going for public land habitat. But it goes into a slush fund for the state to do what ever. I tried of all the taxes that are charged for certain things and the not being applied to what was met for. They keep on taking and keep on promising and now we are losing land and habitat. Farmers get their bail outs and we lose premission to hunt and I believe this is happen in other States. You guys needed to look up how much money that is made just of licenses and sale tax off the outdoors men and see where it really goes to.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Neil » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:10 am

Vision wrote:
Neil wrote:If you are going to hunt quail in Texas, you are going to pay.

In time it will be that way throughout the country. There is no logic in expecting taxpayers to furnish us with land and game to hunt. Private landowners should be compensated.

Private landowners are compensated with subsidies, price supports, land bank payments, lower green belt taxes, grazing allotments on state and federal lands, etc all paid for by the taxpayer. What the farmer needs is a good dose of reality on who actually pays his way.
Are you suggesting that if a landowner accepts any government subsidies they must allow everyone hunting access to their land?

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:48 am

Actually, hunters do landowners a service by hunting their land. They help to control the damage done by pheasant, turkey, waterfowl, etc. to their fields. I'd say it's a two way street. We pay all of their subsidies and protect their land (or try to :D ) from bird depredation.

If you remember, in the sixties I believe, when we hunted SD it was not uncommon for farmers to hand us a box of shells and tell us to "shoot em' all".

Now, it's big business. Group of four goes on a farm at $100.00+ a day per gun, no guarantee of birds, and the farmer gets his $400.00 a day tax free and sits in the kitchen while they control his birds.

I appreciate land owners but I resent having to pay and won't. Usually and never over $50.00.

"Are you suggesting that if a landowner accepts any government subsidies they must allow everyone hunting access to their land?
Neil
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I would indeed be suggesting that.
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:04 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:..."Are you suggesting that if a landowner accepts any government subsidies they must allow everyone hunting access to their land?
Neil"

I would indeed be suggesting that.
Terrible idea....almost as bad as the Leasing of Corporate acreage (especially in the Apps. or areas where some gamebirds are facing declines) for Deer & Turkey or believing that Texas is a fine exemplar for the Future of Hunting....notably, Birdhunting.

Crep, etc. never should be first about bird habitat or birdhunting...those are both secondary benefits. :idea:

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by markj » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:46 pm

Scott, I recently watched a show you did in Nebraska at Pheasant Bonanza, it was real nice to watch you guys hunt land I used to hunt. Cept it was for free then, PB moved in and bought a lodge then went around land leaseing all the good hunting acres shutting us out completly. This is happening all over, so I must say the "free" hunting is going to evaporate as long as people see buck to be made.

Money talks in todays world. Greed has over taken everything IMHO

Shoulda bought that lodge when it went up for sale :) Went real cheap too.
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Neil » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:59 pm

So if accepting fed subsidies is giving up your land rights, then it would follow that we should get free gas, a free cars from GM, and free money from most of the major banks; all of which gets subsidies. Or how about wellfare receipients working for free? How about those that receice Obama care for free?

We have no right to free land and habitat improvement to hunt!

I have enjoyed it, but it will soon be over.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by deke » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:13 pm

I think that people getting welfare working for free is not a half bad idea, say forty hours a week to start. Good idea

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:33 pm

Welfare receipients in Hawaii get over $29.00 an hour. Damned right they can and shouldvworkmfor free or get a job.
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Neil » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:31 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Welfare receipients in Hawaii get over $29.00 an hour. Damned right they can and shouldvworkmfor free or get a job.
So you equate farmers with wellfare recepiets?

I will agree with you when wellfare for work is the law.

The fact most seem to miss is the absolute right to the ownership of land, I only own 80 acres, but no one will ever gain access without my permission. NO ONE!

How can any freedom loving person promote free access to privately owned land, think about it?

Budget to pay or don't hunt.

Land owners nor taxpayers should pay for you to hunt.

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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:32 am

We obviously will never agree on this Neil, but if a tax payer is going to subsidize a farmers land, a farmers crop insurance and a farmers crop price, then that farmer gives up the right to exclusive use of his land. When a thing is invested in, the investor expects a return on his money. Rather than a monetary return, I want to be welcomed to the land.

You own your 80 acres and ask nothing of no one. You do have the right to ban access to all.

Paying to hunt is an abhorrent practice that is destroying hunting for all future generations.
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Re: But wait ... what would you pay?

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:44 am

For the CREP enrollee, if public access automatically tracks that enrollment then how does the farmer protect his land from slob hunters, of which there are more and more, or the abuse of overhunting, game to birds...let alone giving him a feeling that the government is not going to stone a parking area or two one day or hold yet another federal hammer over his head?
Granted, land and resource abuse can happen with WIHAs or PLOTS but attaching a level of hunter entitlement to hunting access and abuses and conflicts as a result of that access are bound to happen with humans being humans...farmers will soon push for other ideas in tune with more control or in line with more $$$s and that may well work against the WIHA-type programs long-term....and so, to a lowering of hunter access many now enjoy.
Were I a farmer with set-asides, as least feeling that I retained a bit of control over my land and decisions affecting it physically would go far toward making future decisions at any next sign-up...my memory would be a good one.
Pushing for more control and more $$$s is exactly what has happened in the ruffed grouse woods and with it's declining access w/o some Leasing lucre dropped...the birds do not fare well in some areas under those conditions.
Many said it would never happen in the grouse woods...it happened.

Paying to hunt is not the worst issue for the future of hunting...Leasing is.
They may appear equal situations but they are very different, especially applied nationwide.
Leasing is centered more on the selfishness and increasing competition of the hunter while paying to hunt is much, much less harmful to the future of hunting.
I don't like paying to hunt and seldom do it but pay-to-hunt, as applied to most birdhunting, does not carry the negatives of Leasing.

Folks get entrenched in their beliefs on each side of the billfold in this issue and that can lead them both to missing the clear differences and the dangers, in favor of the ease of believing the issue is straight forward and w/o grey areas.

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