Gun Dog Forum

Hey guys. I'm looking for some advice for both my pup and my peace of mind as well. My Britt is 8 months old now. We have been hunting birds as often as time and money permit and having a blast!!! Here in Wisconsin the wild pheasant is a faded memory. We spend a fair amount of time hunting released birds on public land. While we have been pretty successful, lately almost all of the birds we are finding are running. And I mean a lot of running. I have had birds run a circle around my dog while on point and run 6 feet away from me. They just won't fly. Is there a way to help my pup be more successful? So far I just let him hunt and don't interfere. He does well, but the last 2 times out I noticed he was getting more aggressive with the birds again. And he is getting less steady at times on his point. Always wanting to relocate. Am I best just to let him learn? I don't want to develop any bad habits that will hinder with other wild game birds such as grouse. Like I said. So far I have done nothing to handle him. Only let him hunt. I guess I just need a piece of mind that I am doing the right thing. We have been having the time of our life and watching his progress has been incredible. I could hunt him everyday and just watch. I don't care about killing the birds other than for him. I do not shoot any of the birds that he flushes or flush wild. We have just been having a heck of a time getting them to hold. Thanks!!

Have you tried a beeper with a hawk scream I have seen it stop runners a few times. I suppose a high pitch whistle could do the same thing if it does not bother the dog.

Grant

I am in much the same situation as you.My dogs first year,state land paid hunts.How much fat is on the birds when you clean them?Fat birds wont fly like lean birds.I dont know where the state gets the birds for our put/take hunts but they are lean and fly just like wild birds.Pheasants run by nature,and run more when pressured.They will run less in heavy cover,thats where we spend most of our time hunting as the season progresses.Lots of shots not taken because the birds are out of sight before i can get my shotgun shouldered.But my dog doesnt seem to mind.
Pheasants can be tough on a young dog,but as they get older and more experienced they figure out the game.

I have not worried about anything this season its all fun and games,just watching the light come on with my dog has been a joy.When this season is over i will work on steady and such. Nothing but fun in his first season.

Welcome to pheasant hunting. They are going to run and your dog can't do much about it. That's just the way it is. Not a lot you can do either. If your dog goes on point and holds, there is no telling where you are going to produce the bird at. If it flushes from 20 yds out, that doesn't mean your dog pointed from 20 yards away, it just means the bird was 20 yards away when it decided to fly. The bird could have been right in front of the dog when it actually pointed. If you are wanting to not shoot a pheasant unless it is holding right in front of the dog, you will not shoot very many. If you think these released birds are irritating, wait until you get on wild birds. You might not have any flush in gun range.

Great suggestion to head to the thick cover. The birds don't see or hear you coming as well and they might feel safer to sit tight. Stay quiet and don't talk to your dogs. Birds will start running well ahead of you if they hear you.

Sunday morning 2°. Drove up to where we were going to hunt. The birds were flying to the next field before I got the pickup shut off. Headed into that field. The pup had seen them land. Off she goes. 100 yds from the birds they are flying out of sight. We are going for sneaky next weekend.

I like to use 2 dogs when hunting pheasant. They work together, and it seems the birds will run less when pressured by 2 dogs.

Yep. The WI DNR pheasants are especially tough on my setter pup. Very few are holding for me. The cold and snow helped somewhat. When they hold and he points its a beautiful thing but I've bagged 3xs as many birds with my golden. Next year I'm going to try and hunt them at the same time.

Have patience and let your dog figure it out. Thanksgiving this year I took my pup out for his first pheasant hunt. It was a plant on public land and we got there late. All the stupid birds had been shot. Only the smart ones remained. But I have to say that was the best hunt we did this year. Watching him chase, stop and think, then run to cut the runners off was the best thing I saw this year. Made me proud to know, again, no one trained him to do that.

I bet your dog went from a high head stopping on first scent and holding till you flushed to a ground pottering idiot flushing birds ahead of you? With young untrained dogs (natural ability) i have never seen anything put a point into a dog faster than wild birds (grouse and woodcock) nor have I seen anything take the point out of a dog faster than liberated birds (pheasant and Chuckar). Time to start the breaking process when maturity sets in.

Just remember, patience patience patience. He is still a pup and it takes time and birds. Like Tonys said some dogs will learn how to cut off a runner, and it is fun watching them figure it out. When I would go from pheasant to grouse the dog found out in a hurry that he had to have a different approach for each bird. The pup will get there just keep putting him on the birds and have fun.

Thanks for playing bonasa!

Your welcome Tony! What did I win? The OP described in detail that he untrained the pup. He had great natural ability on wildbirds but without a solid foundation and maturity it eroded back into bumping and chasing.

"Si the britt" -what did you do after the pup ripped "got aggressive with a few birds"?

It's hard to say without more specific training details but I think it's fine. He is still young. Keep working with him on Whoa or holding tight away from birds and he will figure out when to relocate as necessary. My dog learned that on his own. Now, after training him my self on holding pigeons, I know that he is relocating not breaking point. My dog will hold tight when the birds do and he relocates when the birds do. Just stick with your program and let the dog learn. Only correct when you know he is breaking point, its a fine line and hard to do but holding tight is good but to me so is relocating.

Thank you for all he comments. Bonsa.... You ask what I did with the pup? In the field? We left. I quit hunting those birds for the year. I have instead been working on Whoa and using bird launchers. I have taken him back in the field on planted birds, but with birds I know will fly and in situations I can control more. He has responded great. With all the snow and cold here I haven't has him on as many birds as I would like. I appreciate all the feedback. I've waited so long to get this pup I just want everything to be perfect. Makes me stress out sometimes. Thanks!

Si, I disagree with bonasa and don't think you've done anything wrong by exposing your dog to running roosters. As long as your pup doesn't catch any birds, he's not learning any bad habits. In fact, I'd say you're lucky to have released birds that behave like wild birds to work your dog on. Relocation is a good thing in my book if the bird has run off. He'll learn with experience how to relocate without bumping them. I wouldn't expect an 8 month old dog to know how to handle running roosters. Just sit back and let the birds teach your pup. It sounds like you are on the right track.

buckshot1 wrote:Si, I disagree with bonasa and don't think you've done anything wrong by exposing your dog to running roosters. As long as your pup doesn't catch any birds, he's not learning any bad habits. In fact, I'd say you're lucky to have released birds that behave like wild birds to work your dog on. Relocation is a good thing in my book if the bird has run off. He'll learn with experience how to relocate without bumping them. I wouldn't expect an 8 month old dog to know how to handle running roosters. Just sit back and let the birds teach your pup. It sounds like you are on the right track.

Agreed. I hunt nothing but wild birds, there is no way to teach them how to handle running birds, experience is key. At that age I am mostly focusing on OB. Let that pup be a pup.

Si, don't stress out. It sounded like your dog went from good and steady holding in first scent to rooting up birds. There is a difference between working a running bird and rooting up a bird. Making me believe that the dog wanted to see them fly or chase them as a reward rather than you shooting them for the retrieve. I would go back to stopping g on first scent (body not foot) and when the time is right break them out. Some dogs pointing or not make a better flusher than a pointer. Good luck and thanks for posting.

IMO....Good pheasant dogs are born and then made through experience. It requires a dog with point and caution and is best done on wild birds NOT release birds unless they are exceptional pen raised birds.
With young dogs, I break the gun and just figure that the first season or two is more for the dog than taking pictures of gaudy birds. Let the birds teach the dog and reward the dog when it gets it right.
Not every dog gets it. I'm sure like many here, I have seen years where the CRP is thin and a bird can run for 100's of yards while a dog keeps relocating trying to "contain" a bird. Its just what the game is...and there isn't much you can do about it.
The really good ones are a thing of beauty...they just seem to know how to pressure and where the limit is. Oddly, my best pheasant dogs have also been best sharpie dogs...again knowing the limits of pressure on the birds.

IMO....you can train all you want....hunting wild birds makes a phez dog...if they're wired for it to begin with.

JKP wrote:IMO....Good pheasant dogs are born and then made through experience. It requires a dog with point and caution and is best done on wild birds NOT release birds unless they are exceptional pen raised birds.
With young dogs, I break the gun and just figure that the first season or two is more for the dog than taking pictures of gaudy birds. Let the birds teach the dog and reward the dog when it gets it right.
Not every dog gets it. I'm sure like many here, I have seen years where the CRP is thin and a bird can run for 100's of yards while a dog keeps relocating trying to "contain" a bird. Its just what the game is...and there isn't much you can do about it.
The really good ones are a thing of beauty...they just seem to know how to pressure and where the limit is. Oddly, my best pheasant dogs have also been best sharpie dogs...again knowing the limits of pressure on the birds.

IMO....you can train all you want....hunting wild birds makes a phez dog...if they're wired for it to begin with.

I think JKP nailed it here.

There's nothing quite like hearing/seeing a dog's bell ring. It reminds me a little of Archie Bunker's sarcastic comment, "Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding."

Nate

Lets express our views and not try to downgrade people who don't agree or we just end up in another discussion that teaches nothing.

Ezzy