West Nile

[reba]

It appears that West Nile has destroyed many game birds across the western states. This is the opinion of a couple of F&G biologist.

Does anyone know of a study that backs up this opinion?

[reba]

Lots of info if you google west nile virus oregon

[Bounty_Hunter]

It appears that West Nile has destroyed many game birds across the western states. This is the opinion of a couple of F&G biologist.

Does anyone know of a study that backs up this opinion?

You have my attention on this one. I am wondering if West Nile could also be responsible for disappearing grouse in PA where I live? I have never seen such a decline in grouse in the 30 years that I have hunted in PA.

[Mountaineer]

Old news....basically found mostly in sage grouse the last I heard.
Folks may have learned more.

WN was found in several NY ruffed grouse but never was that determined to be the cause of death.
However, I have wondered for years if harboring the virus could weaken the ruffed grouse and feed into negative issues, primarily during breeding and brooding times.
Same as turkeys carrying a virus affecting the grouse rather than the silly idea of them eating chicks as a decline factor...we, of course, know that turkeys compete for akerns, etc.

Pennsylvania has a comparably good ruffed grouse population in areas where the deer have been slammed and logging has been permitted....Habitat loss and change along with post-hatch weather and avain and, especially, nest predators increases(think deer feeders in the states that allow them) remain the Top 3 decline factors in Pa. and many Appalachian states.
The southern half of Pa. though has experienced ruffed grouse decline, especially the SW.
However, Pa. is blessed with many positives, from the PGC to a wide variety of terrain and habitats and, the Gameland system.

What is needed but will not occur is a new look at ruffed grouse health factors.....too many still refer to aged studies in a changing ruffed grouse picture in the appalachians.

[Bounty_Hunter]

Old news....basically found mostly in sage grouse the last I heard.
Folks may have learned more.

WN was found in several NY ruffed grouse but never was that determined to be the cause of death.
However, I have wondered for years if harboring the virus could weaken the ruffed grouse and feed into negative issues, primarily during breeding and brooding times.
Same as turkeys carrying a virus affecting the grouse rather than the silly idea of them eating chicks as a decline factor...we, of course, know that turkeys compete for akerns, etc.

Pennsylvania has a comparably good ruffed grouse population in areas where the deer have been slammed and logging has been permitted....Habitat loss and change along with post-hatch weather and avain and, especially, nest predators increases(think deer feeders in the states that allow them) remain the Top 3 decline factors in Pa. and many Appalachian states.
The southern half of Pa. though has experienced ruffed grouse decline, especially the SW.
However, Pa. is blessed with many positives, from the PGC to a wide variety of terrain and habitats and, the Gameland system.

What is needed but will not occur is a new look at ruffed grouse health factors.....too many still refer to aged studies in a changing ruffed grouse picture in the appalachians.

I agree that timbering helps lots of wildlife and our deer heard seems healthy in many areas and depleted in other areas, but I hunted grouse when there were plenty more deer and less timbering activity and there were always grouse to hunt. I used to hunt a grown in beaver dam area on game lands 20 miles from home and on a good morning could put up 6 to 8 birds and that was without a dog. Something is wrong and I don't believe its just an issue of habitat loss or condition. I also hunt deer in Bradford county and this is the first season I saw no grouse from my stand nor did I flush any going to or from my stand on any days. I will have to favor your idea of looking at health factors of the grouse. Why are honey bees in such decline (colony collapse), or how about the little brown bats (white nose fungus), or why leopard frogs are in such decline? Where animals or fish are in decline you can almost always link it to pollutants or pesticides and habitat loss. I do believe some decline in certain wildlife is also a natural occourence, but not the grouse. What health factors do you suspect?

[Mountaineer]

I agree that timbering helps lots of wildlife and our deer heard seems healthy in many areas and depleted in other areas, but I hunted grouse when there were plenty more deer and less timbering activity and there were always grouse to hunt. I used to hunt a grown in beaver dam area on game lands 20 miles from home and on a good morning could put up 6 to 8 birds and that was without a dog. Something is wrong and I don't believe its just an issue of habitat loss or condition. I also hunt deer in Bradford county and this is the first season I saw no grouse from my stand nor did I flush any going to or from my stand on any days. I will have to favor your idea of looking at health factors of the grouse. Why are honey bees in such decline (colony collapse), or how about the little brown bats (white nose fungus), or why leopard frogs are in such decline? Where animals or fish are in decline you can almost always link it to pollutants or pesticides and habitat loss. I do believe some decline in certain wildlife is also a natural occourence, but not the grouse. What health factors do you suspect?

Ruffed grouse have been, in most areas of the Apps. a bird of timing.
Have a large degree of early successional created from either timbering or farm reversal and you will often have birds.
During the early days of the previous century one could add fire....or coal.
These factors all can lead to a ruffed grouse boom and eventually a seeming bust....the boom in a ruffed grouse's population is often unsustainable.
The bust, to a degree, understandable.

Health aspects may be that WN as you mentioned...truth is, no one is really looking.
Habitat gets the nod first....rightfully so in some ways but the problem to me these days is plural.
No factor gets a break as unimportant or ignorable.
As such, hunters in late season are additive to grouse populations sliding down a decline curve.
Extirpation happens.
Here in Ohio, we had ruffed grouse populations rivaling the UGLs today in their good years.
We also had bird dogs in many back yards and the ability to hunt every day thru February...no limits of terrain or weather exist.
WE were and still are a part of the problem.
Also in part because we are not focusing on factors such as health and the ruffed grouse....and....there are just too many people today.

Deer were an issue in Pa. from their numbers and damage to early successional.
As preferential browsers, natural regeneration suffers from deer abundance.
As well, in many areas, those spinning deer feeders feed more nest predators 24/7/365 than they do deer.
Deer are a definite ruffed grouse decline factor.
Luckily, Pa. got a stranglehold on much of their deer problem.

[Bounty_Hunter]

What's hard to take is that grouse are native game birds and some of my most memorable hunts were tracking through pine swamps and thickets on those frosty mornings and the excitement of flushing birds. Why doesn't the game commission put more energy into bringing these birds back instead of trying to nurture pheasants in hope that they will breed in more areas in PA? They aren't native to PA or Ohio, yet here they have been trying to restore pheasant populations in hope of having natural populations. Are there any grouse forever clubs?

[Mountaineer]

What's hard to take is that grouse are native game birds and some of my most memorable hunts were tracking through pine swamps and thickets on those frosty mornings and the excitement of flushing birds. Why doesn't the game commission put more energy into bringing these birds back instead of trying to nurture pheasants in hope that they will breed in more areas in PA? They aren't native to PA or Ohio, yet here they have been trying to restore pheasant populations in hope of having natural populations. Are there any grouse forever clubs?

No, pheasants would not be native.
Pa, did though harvest 1 million one year as much of Pennsylvania had habitat conditions favorable to that bird.
Introducing the pheasant, R&Ring them, giving out birds and chicks to sportsman clubs, etc. did allow many upland hunters access to upland birds.....truly wild, no...truly fun, yes.
At a time, pheasants and rabbits also both likely took a bit of pressure off the ruffed grouse as well as giving new hunters reason to be old hunters.
I can't fault the PGC before re pheasants.
Now, as Pa. leads the country in CREP, partially due to the Cheasapeake drainage, there exists the possibility for a bit of improvement in pheasant-type habitat in large enough parcels to be worthwhile....and it is in areas whether ruffed grouse would never prosper.
Will it be as successful as before?
No, too much has changed but the pheasants bring something to the table.
Moreso, imo, then the Elk which some claim to be native....personally, I expect the "elk" that are reintroduced are not exactly the elk of old, but "elk" hunters do not care.
Same deal in KY where the elk antlers indicate some red deer influence.

The PGC, comparable to other central and southern Appalachian states, does a lot for the ruffed grouse....from their one-time study area to the Gameland system and to actual logging on state lands.
Could they do more?
Sure.
But, bringing change to the grouse woods is much, much different than improving habitat for pheasants or elk or deer.
Creating early successional, only a plus for deer, etc., is a must-have for the ruffed grouse.
Add in that the ruffed grouse, thankfully , can not be raised in capitivity or trapped and transferred economically and ruffed grouse management is tough.
Most of all though, proper forest management always faces lawsuits from the likes of the SELC....such obstructionists are death for the ruffed grouse.
Why doesn't the PGC do more?...tough work, little will to fight lawsuit after lawsuit and they are, again, actually doing a good job....comparably and under the conditions that the ruffed grouse faces today.

"Grouse forever clubs?...well, I suppose the RGS would be one but I left them, for the last time, a number of years ago.
They have written off the ruffed grouse in the Apps....other than a bit in Pa where the conditions are more like the better areas up north...and, of course, is the home of the RGS.
Mellon was one of the early money folks of the RGS.

Hunting several states over 50 years, I have found no other state whose hunters have it so good yet complain so much as the folks in Pennsylvania.
Far too many do not realize how good they have it.
What a shame that is.

[Bounty_Hunter]

I wonder if shutting down grouse hunting for a season or two in counties with low populations would be a solution. I would have no problem with that because in the handful of days I looked for birds in my hunting areas I found 2 birds and had no shot at either one. I have seen more turkeys in the past 2 years to say our turkey population is solid. Even noticed more deer this year. IMO hunters are in decline almost as much as grouse. I mean aside from a few days of deer hunting I see few hunters pushing wood for small game or turkeys. I try to make use of my hunting license and it keeps me and the dog in good shape, its not all about the quarry its more about the experience. I hunt because I like being outdoors, game for the freezer is just a bonus.

[Mountaineer]

I wonder if shutting down grouse hunting for a season or two in counties with low populations would be a solution....

Hard to say...ruffed grouse do not spontaneously appear or increase....build it and they will come does not always work.
The ruffed grouse have to come from some place housing a population and to a place allowing a population to be viable.
If both are not present in or near the counties then a closure will mean nothing.
I doubt any closure on a county basis would mean much.

I, personally, would consider dropping January from the Pa. season.
Ohio dropped February and there was a small blip upward in population....Jan would have shown less of a response but it was hard enough to lose Feb.
Grousehunters whined to high heaven.
But, we also had some good Springs post-hatch and fewer hunters to flush the grouse out of their home ranges in winter...both critical , with the increase in nest predators, especially.
Ohio does not have the good or tough or weather-controllable terrain and cover of Pa. but we have cover plus food minus grouse...the ice storm area has many baffled for the small response in that area.
Jan. in Pa is not equal to Jan. in Ohio but I would still consider jettisoning it.
Grousehunter desires and tears do not worry me....my 49 years hunting the bird allows the hunted to trump the hunter.

As to not shooting many ruffed grouse, one does not have to shoot a ruffed grouse to kill it...in late season in the Appalachians.
Flushing brings it's own form of additivity during that time.