Dove hunting with dogs

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:31 pm

Does anybody take their pointing breed dove hunting? Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

vartz04 · Post by **vartz04** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:35 pm

Good luck. You would really have to wear your dog out first to get him to sit there all day.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:36 pm

I've had my pointer customers call me after their first dove hunts with their new pups about how they didn't loose a downed bird. Personally I use my labradors for dove and ducks and save my pointers for Quail, pheasants and grouse. Steadying the dog is important for me but that's unimportant to many. I've seen some really unbroke dogs even on the hunting shows. I'm sure anything is possible but its more effective using the right tool for the job

zjohn14 · Post by **zjohn14** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:53 am

gotpointers wrote:I've had my pointer customers call me after their first dove hunts with their new pups about how they didn't loose a downed bird. Personally I use my labradors for dove and ducks and save my pointers for Quail, pheasants and grouse. Steadying the dog is important for me but that's unimportant to many. I've seen some really unbroke dogs even on the hunting shows. I'm sure anything is possible but its more effective using the right tool for the job

I agree 100% especially if you have a young pointer, know someone who almost made there English gun shy by taking him at or under 6 to 8 months. However I have seen a really great gsp fetch doves all day then next day take off an point every bird no matter the bird. And too the dog was older an has been worked with a ton. I hope to have my gsp fetching doves in few yrs though. Just my 2 cents

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:54 am

My GSP hunts dove, ducks, quail, pheasants, geese, etc.

He's steady in a blind and has been through pile work and can run reasonable "hunting level" blinds. Is he as good as my lab in the pretty retriever work? No, but he's better than the vast majority of dogs, steadier then most, and hunts great.

Pointers can do it. It's obedience. Most pointer folk just don't like to train obedience like retriever folk.

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:36 pm

This will be my dogs second season. We properly introduced the shotgun to him before last season. He never showed any reaction to the gun. If we take him dove hunting, my dad will shoot while i sit with him about 20 yards away. If you had a pointing breed going on its second season would you take him?

skeetermc · Post by **skeetermc** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:46 pm

I use my GWP's for dove. I use a pop up blind for the dog. It helps to have an exact spot for them to come back to after the retrieve. Make darn sure you get them snake proofed. To help keep them cooled down, hunt over water, If your dog kennels when told and knows what whoa means give it a try. I own dogs to hunt with and they pout when I don't take them.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:16 pm

ruffbritt4 wrote:This will be my dogs second season. We properly introduced the shotgun to him before last season. He never showed any reaction to the gun. If we take him dove hunting, my dad will shoot while i sit with him about 20 yards away. If you had a pointing breed going on its second season would you take him?

It all depends on how much training you've done. Is your dog steady, retrieves well (force fetched is helpful), obedient, etc? If so, sure. If you've never trained your dog to retrieve from sitting by you, I'd get to work.

Use walking singles to help the dog get started.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:39 pm

Take a tether and stake, plus lots of water and a bowl. Don't send him on every downed bird, and for sure don't let him run amock. Young dogs should drag a check cord. He must be kept under control. Avoid large groups.

Again, lots of water, I go through 5 gallons an hour, but I am in the South, temperature plus humidity is often 170 or more. Watch closely above 140. Keep his chest wet and bait the water if need be

And the others are right it adds to the training. You are doing it for you not the dog.

Neil

ruffbritt4 · Post by **ruffbritt4** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:41 pm

Bluesky2012 wrote:
ruffbritt4 wrote:This will be my dogs second season. We properly introduced the shotgun to him before last season. He never showed any reaction to the gun. If we take him dove hunting, my dad will shoot while i sit with him about 20 yards away. If you had a pointing breed going on its second season would you take him?
It all depends on how much training you've done. Is your dog steady, retrieves well (force fetched is helpful), obedient, etc? If so, sure. If you've never trained your dog to retrieve from sitting by you, I'd get to work.

Use walking singles to help the dog get started.

hes not force fetched but he retrieves birds very well. When we play fetch with the bumper he stays steady through the throw of the bumper and the shot of the cap gun. He is very obedient. Neil, i was going to have him on the checkcord. Thanks for the advice

Deets · Post by **Deets** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:48 pm

It confuses my pointer. His job has always been to go find the birds, he doesn't like waiting for them to come to us. Boot polishers would probably do fine, but a hard charging pointer won't be happy sitting all day. Use the right tool for the job, take a retriever.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:21 pm

ruffbritt4 wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:
ruffbritt4 wrote:This will be my dogs second season. We properly introduced the shotgun to him before last season. He never showed any reaction to the gun. If we take him dove hunting, my dad will shoot while i sit with him about 20 yards away. If you had a pointing breed going on its second season would you take him?
It all depends on how much training you've done. Is your dog steady, retrieves well (force fetched is helpful), obedient, etc? If so, sure. If you've never trained your dog to retrieve from sitting by you, I'd get to work.

Use walking singles to help the dog get started.
hes not force fetched but he retrieves birds very well. When we play fetch with the bumper he stays steady through the throw of the bumper and the shot of the cap gun. He is very obedient. Neil, i was going to have him on the checkcord. Thanks for the advice

Honestly steadiness with a bumper is like a kid choosing not to eat Brussel sprouts. Put the cake out there and it's different.

A dog may be steady with bumpers in the backyard but with love birds flying, you'll see a completely different dog, especially if you've never asked it to sit still in a blind before.

I'm gonna to be honest, you'll likely be annoyed your first time with him dove or duck hunting. It's so different and the do won't understand it. If you haven't followed a retriever program hit you expect your dog to sit still, and release only on marked retrieves you may be disappointed.

If he's got experience though and your confident, take him, but follow the advice given above. It won't hurt him.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:03 pm

When I said tethered, I did not just mean a check cord, I meant a stake driven in the ground and a short chain, commonly called a stake out.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:55 am

Neil wrote:Take a tether and stake, plus lots of water and a bowl. Don't send him on every downed bird, and for sure don't let him run amock. Young dogs should drag a check cord. He must be kept under control. Avoid large groups.

Again, lots of water, I go through 5 gallons an hour, but I am in the South, temperature plus humidity is often 170 or more. Watch closely above 140. Keep his chest wet and bait the water if need be

And the others are right it adds to the training. You are doing it for you not the dog.

Neil

170? What metric are you measuring this by? Is that temp even possible in Arkansas?

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:55 am

I thought the temperature plus humidity was explanatory, not that complex.

Many years we have temperatures of say 80 F added to a humidity of 80%, equals 160. Most find it easier to understand than the heat index or "feels like". One year both the temp and humidity were bumping up against 90.

Neil

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:31 pm

Haha maybe down there, maybe it's a generational thing, but I've never seen it measured as temperature plus humidity percentage.... That's like adding apples and oranges and getting bacon, at least in my opinion.

Heat index seems like the most common way to include humidity.... Especially because 1% of relative humidity is not equal to 1 degree.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:39 pm

Let me explain by using an example....

In Minneapolis, MN on 12/28/13 the mean temp was 34 degrees. On that same day the average relative humidity level was 77%... Add those up and you get.... 111! See where I'm going with this?

PS... This is according to Weather Underground's website.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:43 pm

All of mine hunt Dove, Ducks, Geese and Upland birds and we will be out on Monday in 190 degree heat for our opener.lol

Sorry Neil but are you saying that 100 degrees plus 90% humidity = the equivalent of 190? Ummmm. Not even close. Maybe I missed your point.

OP, Be careful though and don't over do it. Dove feathers have been known to ruin a dogs desire to have birds in their mouth. Supply as much water as the dog wants but I couldn't force any of mine to consume 5 gallons per hour. Heck, I would have to take 80 gallons with me. I have a 7 gallon jug that will last me all day with atleast 6 dogs on the ground.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:05 pm

I am telling you what 50+ years of running dogs in the Summer and consulting with a number of top trainers that make their livings doing it, all accept the heat index might work fine with humans, but not with dogs. I didn't just make this up, so suspend your logic and ridiculous winter temps, and don't run your dogs in heat and humidity. And I gave a good guide on how to calculate the danger zone.

Argue if you wish, but I have seen dogs suffer irreparable harm and even die in less than 80 degree temps.

You guys do know dogs don't sweat, right?

Neil

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:09 pm

So we have remote launchers, e-collars, and neoprene vests... But we absolutely CANNONT adjust the way we judge heat so it fits into modern times? I think that's just laziness. Also, if it's a system that works it should work in the winter... I mean, this IS the system you use, so it should work in the winter right?

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:13 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:All of mine hunt Dove, Ducks, Geese and Upland birds and we will be out on Monday in 190 degree heat for our opener.lol

Sorry Neil but are you saying that 100 degrees plus 90% humidity = the equivalent of 190? Ummmm. Not even close. Maybe I missed your point.

OP, Be careful though and don't over do it. Dove feathers have been known to ruin a dogs desire to have birds in their mouth. Supply as much water as the dog wants but I couldn't force any of mine to consume 5 gallons per hour. Heck, I would have to take 80 gallons with me. I have a 7 gallon jug that will last me all day with atleast 6 dogs on the ground.

I use the bulk of the water keeping their coats wet, and I bait the water to keep them hydrated. I will ask again, you do know they don't sweat? So there is no evaporative cooling. I have better things to do than argue.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:21 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:So we have remote launchers, e-collars, and neoprene vests... But we absolutely CANNONT adjust the way we judge heat so it fits into modern times? I think that's just laziness. Also, if it's a system that works it should work in the winter... I mean, this IS the system you use, so it should work in the winter right?

Are you being obtuse or are you really that dumb?

Dogs can and will overheat in sub-freezing weather as they cannot hydrate, but it has nothing to do with humidity.

And this has not been scientifically prove, but the real world experiences of guys that have their hands on more dogs in a year than you will see in your lifetime.

You all are annoying me.

Post by **mnaj_springer** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:37 pm

Neil... I understand that you're focused on dog safety and I'm with you on that. We need to set boundaries for our dogs because they won't do it themselves... But come on man... You argued about how humidity is an intense factor but in your latest post said it doesn't matter... So here's where I'm coming from: if you have a one-size-fits-all system, it better fit all sizes. All I was saying is that temp plus humidity is not helpful to ALL, nor is it the most accurate (or scientific) system available. If we want more hunters we have to accommodate their preferences for modernness.

Finally,
Don't get annoyed or PO'd because someone asked for your system to be better... If no one did this, we'd still be in Model A Fords.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:53 pm

Neil wrote:
Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:All of mine hunt Dove, Ducks, Geese and Upland birds and we will be out on Monday in 190 degree heat for our opener.lol

Sorry Neil but are you saying that 100 degrees plus 90% humidity = the equivalent of 190? Ummmm. Not even close. Maybe I missed your point.

OP, Be careful though and don't over do it. Dove feathers have been known to ruin a dogs desire to have birds in their mouth. Supply as much water as the dog wants but I couldn't force any of mine to consume 5 gallons per hour. Heck, I would have to take 80 gallons with me. I have a 7 gallon jug that will last me all day with atleast 6 dogs on the ground.
I use the bulk of the water keeping their coats wet, and I bait the water to keep them hydrated. I will ask again, you do know they don't sweat? So there is no evaporative cooling. I have better things to do than argue.

I certainly didn't mean to argue. I hunt Dove close to water sources so I wasn't counting dunking into consumption.
Neil, you seem a little upset. We are here to share and learn. I bet we could all sit around a campfire and share stories without coming to blows..... You are wrong though about dogs not sweating though. They sweat through their paws and chest. Im no Vet but I believe the paws have Eccrine glands and the rest of the body have Aprocine glands? It may work different then humans but they do sweat.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:00 am

Heaven to Betsy, my purpose in life is not to educate those that will not think for themselves. I am not writing a footnoted, scientific journal. Fill in the blanks with common sense. All I wrote was watch your dog closely in high heat and humidity, I was sharing an old dog trainer's guideline that I first learned in 1960 because the formal heat index is not as applicable to dogs.

Why would you question how much water to carry if you always hunt close to a water source? Most don't. My horse trailer has a 40 gallon water tank, my dog trailer a 30 gallon one, 10 gallons on the K-Mule, and I have four 6 gallon containers for the truck. I always carry ample water, it is important.

Although dogs do sweat on their hairless areas (nose, pads, inside their ears), it is insignificant and does little to cool, so it was easier to just say they do not, to make the point to keep their coats wet.

If I had the time, I do not have the inclination to write an exhaustive, fully cited, formal paper for peer review.
I do wish I had the good sense to have ignored you both.

They are your dogs, you are free to do as you wish. Watch them, don't watch them.

Neil

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