Gun Dog Forum

What do you wild chukar hunters think is the best pointing dog?
Hunting out in desert and mountains.
Think short hairs are hard to beat.

Big running GSP

Kinda partial to pointers and shotneys, but you can find a good one in any breed

One like this. GWP

Here you go...look close. Best way to go. Next question.

http://www.vimeo.com/116725020

I hunt them with my french brittany and he does fine for weekend hunts. If the hunt lasts much more than three days though then his feet get pretty sore from running on those rocks.

I have had pointers for 60 years and for the country and the way we hunt I still favor the English Pointer. I understand that Pointers are not a favorite on this forum but they are my favorite. I do admire any breed of dog that is good at what they do so to each his own.

DGFavor wrote:Here you go...look close. Best way to go. Next question.

Whoa, whoa Doc. We all know you have a young Pointer in that mix, there was a reason.
I personally like these guys. I sure don't have a problem finding Chuks and Huns with them. And best of all they leave the Porcupines, Snakes, Possums and other fury critters alone.

Great pictures there guys.
Some fine looking dogs for sure.
Nice scenery too.
Thanks for the replies

hustonmc wrote:

DGFavor wrote:Here you go...look close. Best way to go. Next question.

Whoa, whoa Doc. We all know you have a young Pointer in that mix, there was a reason.

Oh yah, forgot about that one, the snooty field trial dog...thought we were talkin' actual blue collar workin' bird dogs - she'll point a chukar or two :

There are good dogs in all the breeds, but....If you want something that won't leave foot prints on the ceiling, MUCH prettier to look at, and shoot just as many birds, consider a Gordon Setter.

The Gordons are nice looking dogs but how do they handle the hot weather.
And is their hair hard to keep up ?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a field bred English setter, heard there’s a few that can handle the devil bird. I think most breeds could be serviceable chukar dogs, but if you are comfortable with a big running dog, the chukar hills is where they shine. Pointer, GSP, and setter in that order are my choices. All three of those breeds have plenty of AA/SD type dogs readily available plus they have the prey drive and fortitude to hunt those birds. Chukars are not hard birds to get pointed, but they are the hardest bird to hunt overall (imo). They really test man and beast physically, mentally, and emotionally! lol

A big running GSP or a normal running pointer. My first choice is a pointer especially where heat tolerance is a consideration. Their superior attributes are best suited to grueling, hot climes where endurance is a factor. There are always exceptions in any breed, or you can go with the odds.

I have pointers and GSP's and they both can get the job done! They are a pain in the butt physically thats for sure.

I agree codym.
Chukars are the toughest birds to hunt.
Especially in Idaho.

Chukars are the hardest to hunt simply because the terrain is physically demanding for us humans. I think they are one of the easiest for pointing dogs to handle.

Vision wrote:Chukars are the hardest to hunt simply because the terrain is physically demanding for us humans. I think they are one of the easiest for pointing dogs to handle.

How easy they are to handle depends on cover and how hard they are hunted.

mask wrote:

Vision wrote:Chukars are the hardest to hunt simply because the terrain is physically demanding for us humans. I think they are one of the easiest for pointing dogs to handle.

How easy they are to handle depends on cover and how hard they are hunted.

If the dog is above them and will point them without pressuring them they can be pointed for a long time.

The OP's question as I read it is, "What is the best breed?"
Easy answer:
1) pointer

The OP also commented, "..think GSPs are hard to beat." It's OK to think that but I wouldn't pick them to come in 2nd either. Then again, that wasn't a question.

Maybe the better question might read something like this. "What is the best breed for putting Chukar in the game bag?"


Outlanders Kold Hollow Creek

That changes it slightly.
1) pointer

Barely made my top ten. I'll give credit where credit is due though
They do a fine job at this...

It's getting the bird to the bag is where they lack

Like mask, I've been hunting for about 60 years over pointing dogs, mine have mostly white long hair. I've had 14 setters during those 60 years and 8 of them hunted Chukar as well as any dogs I've ever seen. (The last 6 have hunted Quail because I got too feeble to hunt Chukar). Shave them down in September for the warm days, and by November's snow they've grown their coat for the cold. Never had a problem in hot or cold. Great bird finders, easy to train, long white tail so you can see them in the canyons. Feet are soft but boots take care of tht. Trial bred dogs are a bit reluctant to retreive, but all of mine accepted the trained retreive with no problem.

IMO any gundog breed can be excellent Chukar dogs with the right training and exposure to wild birds........

Dirty Dawger wrote:That changes it slightly.
1) pointer

Sounds like you must really get out after 'em! Share us some tales of your chukar outings! Nothing better than war stories with the fellow chukar hunters - let'r rip, show us some scars!

Here's a little video chukar trip I did this season:
http://www.vimeo.com/114622170

DGFavor.....that is AMAZING!!! I envy you.
I personally own a setter right now but pointers are......pointers. I cultivate a retrieve in them as young pups and many respond very well. On occasion, I have to consider more traditional options.
I just got a text from a friend a little while ago about his scaled quail hunt in New Mexico. He used to own GSPs but his last 2 have been pointers - will never get another GSP. "Rock" was awesome, hunted dead and retrieved nicely.
"Tucker" stole the show this past season on the prairies with arid 83 degree temps. The other dogs (other breeds) ran out of gas. Tuck had lots of go to spare.
Been doing this a LONG time. It is what it is.
Sure wish I could share secure some of my past hunts like that! Not that tech-savvy.
I refuse to believe what you are inferring DGFavor, ummmmmm.......unless I see it for myself????

Dirty Dawger wrote:DGFavor.....that is AMAZING!!! I envy you.
I personally own a setter right now but pointers are......pointers. I cultivate a retrieve in them as young pups and many respond very well. On occasion, I have to consider more traditional options.
I just got a text from a friend a little while ago about his scaled quail hunt in New Mexico. He used to own GSPs but his last 2 have been pointers - will never get another GSP. "Rock" was awesome, hunted dead and retrieved nicely.
"Tucker" stole the show this past season on the prairies with arid 83 degree temps. The other dogs (other breeds) ran out of gas. Tuck had lots of go to spare.
Been doing this a LONG time. It is what it is.
Sure wish I could share secure some of my past hunts like that! Not that tech-savvy.
I refuse to believe what you are inferring DGFavor, ummmmmm.......unless I see it for myself????

Not questioning your opinion on dogs, its merely that my ill understanding of human behavior compels me to ask you why you are posting expertise and opinion on chukar hunting when it appears you have never done it. Fascinates me, thats all. Personally I avoid posting on threads that I have no knowledge or experience...even if my friends have texted me about theirs!

Wish I had the time and resources to worry about "best", sadly I don't. With work, deer season, saltwater fishing/boat expenses and life in general, I'm spread a little thin. So for now I will enjoy working on getting to decent with my hand me down Shorthair.


Doc, if you ever want to trade some tuna fishing for a river hunt let me know. That looks like a blast.

DGFavor, whether I personally have hunted chukar or have hunted chukar exactly where you have is hardly the point. I thought we were talking about dogs.
It's not like you can't hunt chukars with ANY dog. I am speaking strictly about the breed across the board specific to:
- heat tolerance
- endurance
- nose
These are common natural ability traits of the main line pointer. "Where" these demands are made makes not one iota of a difference. I like to think that if the OP had an opportunity to go to New Mexico for blues or to Maine for grouse he wouldn't shop for another dog(s). It is the expectation of most bird hunters that their dog's retrieve. There are GSPs that don't do so naturally or completely, Brittanies that don't, setters that don't, Weims that don't, pointers that don't.....and those that do.
I personally would expect my bird dog, regardless of breed, to retrieve. While it's nice to have this as an innate natural ability, it CAN be trained into a dog. You can't train nose, heat tolerance, and some of those other attributes that are albeit not unique to but are commonplace trademarks of a pointer.

I thought we were talking about dogs.

The poster very specifically and clearly mentions "chukar dogs" and queries which pointing breed us yahoos think might be best in pursuing them. While the question itself has no right or wrong answer, call me crazy, but I think that replying with any degree of credibiltiy requires a wee bit of real life experience actually pursuing the quarry in question in their "native" ranges. Just because I had some walleye in a bar in Kennebec, SD once doesn't make me expert to get on the Ontario Walleye Forum and spout expertise on what works best to catch 'em...I'd peg their BS meter in less than a sentence!

I've got no questions/concerns regarding pointers and chasing chukar, I have one laying on the floor next to me as I type this and she does a fine job on 'em....my query to you, and anyone interested, was probably for a different thread/the "Off Topic" area I suppose, and questions our seemingly natural inclination as posters/participants in these forums to recite expertise on subjects for which we are not. How many posts have you seen where the poster starts off saying something like "I have never actually been to a field trial but..." or "I have never owned or used an e-collar on my dogs but IMO..." or "I have never actually hunted chukar in the wild but I think the best dog for it is...". I have caught myself a time or two on the WWW about to blabber expertise on something that I realized I knew nothing about because I had never even done it , glad I stopped before someone called me on it...why would I, or anyone, be inclined to even do such a thing... We're wierd. Where's Joe? Chukar12? He's wierd...this is right up his alley.

Chukar dog!

Doc, if you ever want to trade some tuna fishing for a river hunt let me know. That looks like a blast.

Like not in a can yet, still out in the ocean tuna?? I'll take you on a boat trip for chukar just to not take me out on the ocean!!

Dirty Dawger wrote: I am speaking strictly about the breed across the board specific to:
- heat tolerance
- endurance
- nose

Those traits are all fine and required, but until you have actually stepped foot on chukar terrain for a day you realize that the most important trait for a chukar dog are feet. The rocks will chew up the bad ones so fast that the heat tolerance, endurance and nose become useless. Seems to me in my 35 years of hunting chukars that the GSP have the best feet as a whole, hence the popularity as chukar dogs.

This is what good chukar dogs look like.

Hey Vision I have one just like that, different breed but the same opportunistic behavior. Cute photo, I'll bet like mine, he is not a bit spoiled either.

"Those traits are all fine and required, but until you have actually stepped foot on chukar terrain for a day you realize that the most important trait for a chukar dog are feet. The rocks will chew up the bad ones so fast that the heat tolerance, endurance and nose become useless."
Agree 100% with Vision on this.

Is there something you guys, especially the guys who keep their dogs indoors, do to condition their feet?

This is what good chukar dogs look like.

Man, looks like Rue Dawg needs to hit the gym and work on her hammies!!

Is there something you guys, especially the guys who keep their dogs indoors, do to condition their feet?

I have selected the dogs I have because their parents/their lines have proven to have "good feet" in chukar country - whether it's feet/gait/application/etc., they just don't seem to tear themselves up. Personally, it's one of the things, along with inclination for good natural retrieves, that IMO/IME put GSP's (on average, exceptions to anything of course) on the top of my pointy chukar dog list. If I can even get more specific, I'll put the dark, liver/roan GSP's at the tip of the spear - their feet are just generally not an issue IME. Soo, to answer your question - no, I don't do anything to condition their feet except work 'em. I'll have to search out my "chukar foot" pic - not in my Photobucket.

No Country for Poor Feet:

Interesting....thanks for the info!

DGFavor, I'd bet if you asked your mechanic what was the best car for you to buy or which to stay away from, he could tell you, even though HE doesn't own/drive either one.
So far, the only thing I can extract is that GSP owners are pushing GSPs. I completely understand. I am not putting down GSPs or any other breed. Just offering my opinion. I re-iterate, I have a setter.
Let me re-word this:
pumatom, I personally would acquire a pointer with alot of white. The alternate pigment would be black or liver. The black/liver pigment needs to be dominant on the pads because the dark pads are tougher. It is practical around the eyes too. If the dog has bi-colored pads, you want it to be mostly dark.
I'd search for this pointer through some cover dog trialers because of the gait on these dogs. Certain lines are actually predisposed to this nimble/agile gait which isn't so much about "cover" in what might present itself on the chukar hills but is more to address HOW that gait will serve your dog's longevity on the rocks. It's a crisper/snappier/measured gait rather than a far reaching greyhound-ish gait. Of course, a smart dog will adapt to terrain so...........
My forte is in training but there are breeders of some super trial dogs (both horseback and cover) that can elaborate on this gait phenomenon.
An excellent question was asked regarding pads and I'm interested in the answers. My greatest challenge is that a dog that is a companion in the home will need conditioned which includes pads, before hunting season. There are some products out there but one in particular hardens pads up to the point where they get too dry and crack. .....not good.
I find monitored roading and running is what works best rather than anything out of a bottle but it takes time. As I say, I'm interested in the responses.

Dirty Dawger,

Did you happen to stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc2t6s0X ... ata_player

mask wrote: he is not a bit spoiled either.

She is often mistaken for a male because she looks like a shemale. She's not spoiled she just likes whipped cream.

Dirty Dawger wrote: pumatom, I personally would acquire a pointer with alot of white.

Here's another obvious reason why dark GSP's are better for chukar hunting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHBDthd3Z2o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4MrLVwGUzI

luvthemud wrote:Is there something you guys, especially the guys who keep their dogs indoors, do to condition their feet?

I do nothing special, to me it's all in the breeding, they are born with good feet or there not.

I work'em at the very least once a week to keep his pads tough

I re-iterate, I have a setter.

Setter? Setter's do a excellent job on Chuks. Especially Llewellyn's...

Best thing I found for feet is gravel runs but I absolutely hate trying to keep them clean,

Ezzy

gregm wrote:"Those traits are all fine and required, but until you have actually stepped foot on chukar terrain for a day you realize that the most important trait for a chukar dog are feet. The rocks will chew up the bad ones so fast that the heat tolerance, endurance and nose become useless."
Agree 100% with Vision on this.

I'll go with that. A good chukar dog has got to have good feet and a lot of patients, if you push them devil birds they're going to pop before you are ready.

Those traits are all fine and required, but until you have actually stepped foot on chukar terrain for a day you realize that the most important trait for a chukar dog are feet. The rocks will chew up the bad ones so fast that the heat tolerance, endurance and nose become useless. Seems to me in my 35 years of hunting chukars that the GSP have the best feet as a whole, hence the popularity as chukar dogs.

This is what good chukar dogs look like.[/quote]

I never really thought much about this, but you guys are absolutely right. I only hunt chukars once a year for a few days and usually bring 4-5 dogs. They do a decent job, but are beat after those few days. My best bitch is amzingly tough but doesnt have good feet, she will hunt with blown pads,leaving a blood trail in the snow. The desert where I hunt can be tough on feet, but is not as brutal as the chukar hills. I have a GSP out of DG Favor's bugsy dog that I hunted everyweekend this year and the only time he knocked a pad was the first weekend of the season after we hunted lava flows, which leaves all my dogs pretty banged up. By the same token I have a little pointer bitch that hunted the same amount of time and she didn't knock a pad after the first weekend either. I guess all I know about pads is that I don't know enough!



I don't have many pictures of the dogs on chuks, but here is my wimpy footed female on a covey. We hit a bird and she proceeded to go to the bottom of the canyon and fight a bobcat for the retrieve, she won. I'm no chukar expert, but I hope I have a teeny tiny bit of devil bird cred!

If there are any fishermen in this bunch answer this question: What color lure is recommended when water conditions are muddy? The answer is black, because it's more visible.

In my experience black is easier to see in the chukar hills and out on the flats. Also, I heard that the darker the skin on the dogs feet the tougher they are. ??? I hunt Chukars and Huns every weekend of the season, one of my Gordon's had a problem with blown pads one time in the last 7 years. Just saying!

You can see by most all of the other pics posted that the dogs are difficult to see, they kind of blend in.

Vision wrote:

luvthemud wrote:Is there something you guys, especially the guys who keep their dogs indoors, do to condition their feet?

I do nothing special, to me it's all in the breeding, they are born with good feet or there not.

+1

I think any of the pointing breeds can get the job done. In my limited experience, it's less about the breed and more a matter of conditioning for tough feet, tough bodies, and a dog that doesn't know the meaning of the word quit. Some of us like the big running dogs, some of us like the closer working kind. Again, I've seen both do well hunting chukar. I happen to come from the former camp because I'm lazy and like the dog to cover the good spots so I don't have to go over there unless I have to, especially in the kind of country that looks like this:



And it's really cool to finally get to the top of the ridge and find them standing like this:



Especially with that pretty tail