Retrieving great but will NOT drop

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Evanman2010
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Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Evanman2010 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:57 am

I have a 7 month old GSP, he is great at retrieving downed birds, toys, tennis balls, anything you throw for him. When he fetches and brings it back to you, it is always a struggle to get him to drop especially with birds. This past weekend in training he went to retrieve a shot bird and held onto it so tight that he squeezed the guts through the rear end of the bird. I have never played tug of war with him. I have recently been training him to drop with giving him a treat each time he drops a ball or toy but unless he knows that treat is there he will not drop it. Anyone have suggestions or training help? Thank you

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Neil » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:34 am

Easiest first:

1. Always carry treats, snap your fingers or use a clicker. I use jerky strips cut into squares.

2. Pick him up by the flank with one hand.

3. Have him FF ed.

Or easiest of all, do nothing and see as he matures if he figures it out.

It is not a big problem with a pup, don't overreact.

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:55 am

It is not a big problem with a pup, don't overreact.


This is the best advice you could receive. You are working with a puppy that has no idea what the real game is. With puppy training I would advise start late and go slow.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Evanman2010
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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Evanman2010 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:39 pm

Thank you for the tips, I have saw a couple videos about teaching a pup to drop so I will begin asap. I make sure to not overreact with aggression because in all he did retrieve the downed bird to me, dont want to scare him away from this. Hopefully the training will work, thanks for the advice.

** Great idea with the jerky strips, I will have to try this, thank you.

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Neil » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:18 pm

Don't forget the grabbing the flank and lifting up, then lot of praise. Make him think he is the greatest dog that ever lived every time he does anything remotely right. Don't over stimulate him, put let him know you approve.

Btw, that is a good looking pup, you won't be lying much, he is special.

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Evanman2010
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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Evanman2010 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:53 am

Hey guys, ive been training Duke to drop the past couple days, whenever I have a treat in my hand he will drop only if I have a treat, sometimes when he is tired he will not want to drop. But in all progress is going well, it will just take alot of reinforcement and training to really get him to know the command. Wish I would of been training this since day 1. Thanks again for all the help!

Neil - I have tried lifting up on his flank getting his 2 paws off the ground but he still wont budge, he is over protective of his food and toys and becomes stubborn when it comes to taking it away from him. Does anyone reccomend carrying treats when he goes to retrieve downed birds to get him to drop?

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by GWPtyler » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:01 am

Evanman2010 wrote:Hey guys, ive been training Duke to drop the past couple days, whenever I have a treat in my hand he will drop only if I have a treat, sometimes when he is tired he will not want to drop. But in all progress is going well, it will just take alot of reinforcement and training to really get him to know the command. Wish I would of been training this since day 1. Thanks again for all the help!

Neil - I have tried lifting up on his flank getting his 2 paws off the ground but he still wont budge, he is over protective of his food and toys and becomes stubborn when it comes to taking it away from him. Does anyone reccomend carrying treats when he goes to retrieve downed birds to get him to drop?
Sounds to me like the pup might be getting a bit big for his britches, too. Food/toy aggression and possessiveness this young should be nipped in the bud as soon as possible.

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Evanman2010 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:12 am

GWPtyler wrote:
Evanman2010 wrote:Hey guys, ive been training Duke to drop the past couple days, whenever I have a treat in my hand he will drop only if I have a treat, sometimes when he is tired he will not want to drop. But in all progress is going well, it will just take alot of reinforcement and training to really get him to know the command. Wish I would of been training this since day 1. Thanks again for all the help!

Neil - I have tried lifting up on his flank getting his 2 paws off the ground but he still wont budge, he is over protective of his food and toys and becomes stubborn when it comes to taking it away from him. Does anyone reccomend carrying treats when he goes to retrieve downed birds to get him to drop?
Sounds to me like the pup might be getting a bit big for his britches, too. Food/toy aggression and possessiveness this young should be nipped in the bud as soon as possible.
I have.... many times. He loves to push the boundries all the time. And each time im there to correct him. Just this morning he was eating and my other dog a 13year old lab walked by he growled at her and then snapped her on the nose. I corrected him, im going to see how he will do this afternoon when I feed him and keep correcting. I cant stand for this crap.

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Neil » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:21 am

I should let others respond and hope they do.

I carry treats in the field and will trade a piece of jerky for a bird all day long.

Apply whatever pressure is required when grasping the flank to get him to drop while giving the command. You squeeze hard enough and he will open his mouth. Keep working on recall separately, some decide they don't value the trade and will avoid you.

DON'T OVERREACT, but you need to get firmer with him. He is going to be fine, I am not as sure about you.

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:49 am

I don't treat dog's, though I don't disagree with those that do. My feeling is (on older dogs) that when they are commanded to do something, they better darn well do it or they won't like the "treat" they get. Your's is still a pup but beware: GSP's can be unbelievably stubborn dog's to work with so my own personal feeling is that once they're the age of yours, you let NOTHING develop that may become a potential problem that needs professional help to cure. Crushing a bird until the guts come out is NOT something to be taken lightly.
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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by GWPtyler » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:18 am

Evanman2010 wrote:I have.... many times. He loves to push the boundries all the time. And each time im there to correct him. Just this morning he was eating and my other dog a 13year old lab walked by he growled at her and then snapped her on the nose. I corrected him, im going to see how he will do this afternoon when I feed him and keep correcting. I cant stand for this crap.
What exactly do you mean by correct? Because, when it comes to aggression, you need to fight fire with fire.

A "No" ain't gonna cut it. I want to instill fear of my ruthlessly unholy wrath in that dog. No questions. End of discussion. There are instances where dogs need a gentle coaxing, There are times when they need a firm hand. Then there are times when you need to straight up get mean, as in Head Guard of a Maximum Security Prison mean. This is one of those times.

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Evanman2010
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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Evanman2010 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:39 am

GWPtyler wrote:
Evanman2010 wrote:I have.... many times. He loves to push the boundries all the time. And each time im there to correct him. Just this morning he was eating and my other dog a 13year old lab walked by he growled at her and then snapped her on the nose. I corrected him, im going to see how he will do this afternoon when I feed him and keep correcting. I cant stand for this crap.
What exactly do you mean by correct? Because, when it comes to aggression, you need to fight fire with fire.

A "No" ain't gonna cut it. I want to instill fear of my ruthlessly unholy wrath in that dog. No questions. End of discussion. There are instances where dogs need a gentle coaxing, There are times when they need a firm hand. Then there are times when you need to straight up get mean, as in Head Guard of a Maximum Security Prison mean. This is one of those times.
Ha good examples!
To me it depends on what he has done. If he jumps I will squeeze his paws and tell him down (nothing too fierce). If he growls and snaps at me or other animals I will correct this with alot more anger and as you say "Prison gaurd" sometimes he gets the picture very well, right after punishment I take his food away and throw him in his kennel. If im training him to drop and he does not listen I try not to use punishment at all, if he wont drop for the treat I ignore him and walk away, after he realizes Im gone he comes to me and drops, I have tried flicking his nose, pinching his jaws, prying his mouth apart when he wont drop and it seems to never work. I make sure to teach him avlesson but needs to be reminded every now and then. It all depends on what degree of aggression he is showing, I make sure to correct with more aggression to show him who the boss is and how the rules work around here. But like you guys say these dogs are very very smart and loves to push the boundries. I plan on taking his bowl away tonight every couple bites and making sure he will not snap or he will be corrected. To me he just seems like a very hard headed pup and I need to work more with it (which i do not mind at all).

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by GWPtyler » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:21 pm

Here's an example that you can mull over:

When Remy was young, he was a fiesty little stinker. Loved getting into trouble. Loved investing new things. He was, by all respects, a normal puppy.

Then one day, my wife was opening the fridge and Remy came bounding over. Until this point, I don't believe he realized just what that giant white box actually held. But when he put 2 and 2 together and discovered it held a mighty banquet for a young pup, he got just a bit excited.

Then my wife tried scooting him out of the way. He growled. Not a little puppy growl, but a "you better watch who you're messing with, lady" growl.

I didn't hesitate. I didn't stop to pass go and collect my $200. I went directly into beast mode. I snagged Remy by the neck, shook him hard and growled/yelled "NO!! YOU DO NOT GET TO GROWL AT US!!"

He went limp, kind of shook a bit. I waited a bit for the lesson to sink in and let him down.

My wife tried to move him away. He growled again.

I repeated the process, and took the severity up a notch.

That was the first, and last time, my dog has ever growled at a human being.

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Neil » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:45 pm

I had a pup growl at me once, I ignored it and he never growled at another human being.

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by cjhills » Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:41 pm

Neil wrote:I had a pup growl at me once, I ignored it and he never growled at another human being.
This is exactly right. Most Issues are caused by overreacting. If you watch pack dynamics, the top dog does not have to go after the lower dogs, things just work out. Many times The resource guarding dog a softer dog and manhandling makes it worse. Do not know that I ever had a pup growl at me though. They know it does not work..Cj

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by polmaise » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:13 pm

Evanman2010 wrote:I have a 7 month old GSP, he is great at retrieving downed birds, toys, tennis balls, anything you throw for him. When he fetches and brings it back to you, it is always a struggle to get him to drop especially with birds. This past weekend in training he went to retrieve a shot bird and held onto it so tight that he squeezed the guts through the rear end of the bird. I have never played tug of war with him. I have recently been training him to drop with giving him a treat each time he drops a ball or toy but unless he knows that treat is there he will not drop it. Anyone have suggestions or training help? Thank you
I reckon you have a dog that hasn't learned the chain of sequence for a retrieve to deliver to hand .

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by GWPtyler » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:05 am

Neil wrote:I had a pup growl at me once, I ignored it and he never growled at another human being.
Different strokes for different folks.

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Evanman2010 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:42 am

Picking up a couple more birds this afternoon, plan on wearing him out and running him before we hunt to see if this will have a change to help his excitement and listen better. I also plan on having some tasty jerky strips in the field that he wont resist to drop the bird for one. Thanks again for all the tips, I will let everyone know how it goes. Im still dealing with food aggression, trying to keep him from growling at other dogs or me while eating. Knocking each issues out one at a time!

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by david0311 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:17 pm

Ok two issues here--first off I'm a retriever guy and have very little experience with shorthairs so maybe I should net even post--

As for not giving up the bird I would in- now way-- no how go the treat route[/b] --in my opinion you are encouraging him to not give up the bird until he is darn good and ready or given a treat--have you tried taking you hand over the top of his muzzle and rolling his lips under his teeth- and pinch-the harder he bits down the more he hurts himself--he will lurn to give it up


Aggression


You are seeing the start of something that must-must be nipped in the bud--it will not get better--Besides retrievers in my working career I had K-9's I know what I'm speaking about here--

This dog as nice as he may be --is running the show --stop it now!! :twisted: :evil:

By the way this is coming from a guy who-- is often teased by Pro-and top flight AM for being to easy and babying his dogs :D

Good luck--just my 2 worth

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Neil » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:53 pm

It is a 7 month old pup! It is a GSP. He is training to casual hunting standards.

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by david0311 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:45 pm

Could live with the retrieving issue for now though it is related to the aggression and who is the alfa-- but not the aggression-that will not improve--it will only get worse and-- in all likely hood have a negative effect on on other aspect of traing and enjoying the dog in the future --ie-hunting with other dogs among others--

YOU LIVE WITH WHAT YOU TOLERATE--Rex Carr :roll:

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by bobman » Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:18 am

I kneel next to pups when they retrieve and make them sit until they spit out the bird, I just keep stroking them and make them stay sitting until they deliver it, at first it might be a minute it might be ten minutes but they aren't moving on until I get the bird

once they realize they aren't going to move on until they give up the bird they will usually start giving it right away because they want to resume hunting
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by Evanman2010 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:18 am

Thank you everyone for all the posts and help, I have really been drilling it into the pup and everyone that works with him (Girlfriend, parents, etc) the commands. For dropping issues, he has finally got it and understands what drop and leave it means couldnt be happier! Whenever he has a ball he will retrieve it and drop when I say drop, then I say leave it and he will back off and lay down until I throw the ball again, lots of treats and praise helped here. As for birds it took a little bit more convincing and alot more work but in the end he will drop when I command it, my trainer showed me a trick to bite or pinch his ear and say drop until he drops it, the first time he will whine and drop (make sure to grab the bird before he can get it after dropped), second he gets it and so on. Now after several tries I dont even have to touch his ear I just say the command and he will follow, sometimes he might need some convincing by putting his ear between my pointer finger and thump and applying light pressure, he does not want to get hurt and he will drop it and go on hunting for the next bird.
For the food aggression issue, I have put a pinch collar on him while he eats and kept it up by his ears and upper neck, I have been told this is a sensitive part and it will teach them quickly what your trying to train. Whenever he growls, snaps, freezes up with anger, I give a big yank on that collar to the point where his front paws are off the ground and I yell "NO" he will yelp but soon understand the right and wrong here. I am still working with him on this but have came a long way, I can bring other dogs next to him and have them eat without him acting up. I want to give a big thank you to everyone on here for the help and pointing me in the right direction, Not sure I would be able to do it without your guys help. I hope this post can help out others that are having this same issue. If anyone has any questions or wants more details on the ways I train feel free to send me a PM.

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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by david0311 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:20 am

OK--that post reveals a good deal of information on what may be some of the issues--

So here are some of the issues-and free advice (and that may be all it's worth) your opinion may vary :roll:




1--NO BODY-- should be working that dog at this time!!! --except you/or the pro--if everyone you state is playing--retrieving with that pup there is no constant for the dog to adhere to--girlfriends-parents etc have no place here you need to stop that -- next get some decent dummies (no I don't mean me :roll: ) bumpers/dummies and stop all retrieving with other junk--balls especially can be hard for a dog to to give to hand in a decent manner--forget the treats all together--

2--Aggression-- :twisted: again this needs to be stopped now-- that dogs needs to be taken down by hand at the first sign of aggression/non compliance etc.--rolled on his back--you astride--face to face-- or lifted off his feet and held by hand or maybe both--and have you and him have a very serious discussion on who is the alfa-and who is going to run the show from now on-- or how are you going to handle it when there is no pinch collar on? I have never had a dog (including a K-9 Shepard who I could not take food away from-including taking it right out of their mouth) ( Though with him at first it did cost several uniforms damaged to get my point across) :D I'm surprised your pro has not helped you address this issue--If he is aware of it?

MY opinions are free and may not be worth what you pay for them :roll:



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Re: Retrieving great but will NOT drop

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:58 pm

Aggression is rarely cured through aggression. There is a man posting here, Bobman, that knows a heck of a lot about aggression and about short hairs. PM him and see if he'll help you. He's a generous a nice guy and I'm pretty sure he'd help you. Best doing it by pm. He doesm't really like to argue on these boards.
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