Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

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jfwhit
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Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by jfwhit » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:04 pm

How common is it to upland hunt with a pointing dog and a retriever together. I'm interested in a Labrador to go into the field with my Brittany. My 2yr old Brittany retrieves haphazardly. I know... I can force fetch him. I just have always favored labs and would like to have a well trained, good tempered lab around the house. Then I could use him for retrieves in the field. I'm not wanting a pointing lab unless he just does it.

So who has an upland lab to compliment their pointing dog? Describe the experience or how it works out.

Thanks.

Jeff

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by mnaj_springer » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:16 pm

I've never seen it in person, but there are few episodes on Wingshooting USA where they utilize this system.

What I do know is that all the dogs must be bomb proof steady for this to work. The last thing you'd want is a dog fight over a bird because someone's dog broke.
“Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions.”
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pato y codoniz
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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by pato y codoniz » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:56 pm

What you're talking about is commonly referred to as a "matched pair".

The retriever stays at heel until released to flush a pointed bird. The retriever then sits on flush until released to retrieve.

I know a couple of pros that will train it. It really necessitates a rock solid pointer because you're stealing point.

jfwhit
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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by jfwhit » Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:31 pm

I'm looking at Wildrose kennels to train. My brittany seems ready to move on once the bird is down for now anyway. I have to call him back to find the dead bird. I'll get another couple seasons under my brittany before I could do this anyway. That should allow me more time with his retrieving ability.

Thanks for the responses.

Jeff

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by Neil » Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:23 am

Like most such things, I found it worked better in theory than practice. You almost have to be a full time handler, and not a handler and hunter. There are a lot of moving parts. It takes attention to keep the retriever at heel and to make sure both honor. After I trained for it, I ended up hunting them separately most of the time. But I had high energy Boykins and goldens for retrievers that were hunted as flushers, not non-slip retrievers. And the pointing dogs were kept steady to wing, shot, and fall, but retrieved well and often.

I use past tense for good reason.

Good luck.

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by jimbo&rooster » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:54 pm

It is a pain in the butt. I did it for a couple seasons and spent most of my time micromanaging othwise darn good dogs.
A limit on the strap is nice, but the kill has nothing to do with tradition.

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by Grange » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:38 pm

pato y codoniz wrote:What you're talking about is commonly referred to as a "matched pair".

The retriever stays at heel until released to flush a pointed bird. The retriever then sits on flush until released to retrieve.

I know a couple of pros that will train it. It really necessitates a rock solid pointer because you're stealing point.
I think that is wasting the talents of a retriever. It can be much more effective to hunt both at the same time. I think a retriever/pointer combination is extremely effective provided they aren't hunting at the same range all the time. I regularly hunt my lab and my setter together and often hunt my lab with brittanies and GWPs as well. When I hear the bell stop or see my setter or any of the brittanies or GWP's go on point I will have my lab heel and stay while we work the point. If we drop the bird we usually let the dog that pointed it get the retrieve. When my lab flushes the bird she gets the retrieve as there is no chance a pointing will beat her to it

If the pointing dog goes on point near the lab while it is hunting it is no uncommon for my lab to honor the point though if she fails to honor then I will command the lab to sit.

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by oldbeek » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:04 pm

My hunting buddys son moved into our area and he had a lab. Our 2 GSP's would rather point but would retrieve if no one else would. The lab fit right in. The pointers pointed, the lab backed, flushed and retrieved. We probably shot a thousand quail over this trio.

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by bobman » Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:09 am

work on training your Britt to retrieve I love labs but this idea you're considering is a PITA
currently four shorthairs, three english pointers

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by jfwhit » Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:33 am

Bobman, I'm already thinking this way. And if I get the wife on board for a second gun dog, going with another pointing dog. Get my lab when I'm too old to walk the fields all day. I can see where it would work better with someone else handling the lab.

Jimbo, Neil, Pato, mnaj, you've given me things I didn't think about. I want my time in the field to be relaxing and enjoyable. I want to get away from the city and enjoy the dog work.

Grange and oldbeek, I would love to experience this just for the dog work alone.

Thanks for all the reply's.

Jeff

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ezzy333
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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:44 am

jfwhit wrote:Bobman, I'm already thinking this way. And if I get the wife on board for a second gun dog, going with another pointing dog. Get my lab when I'm too old to walk the fields all day. I can see where it would work better with someone else handling the lab.

Jimbo, Neil, Pato, mnaj, you've given me things I didn't think about. I want my time in the field to be relaxing and enjoyable. I want to get away from the city and enjoy the dog work.

Grange and oldbeek, I would love to experience this just for the dog work alone.

Thanks for all the reply's.

Jeff
Nice post.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by cjhills » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:36 am

If you go on a old fashioned hunt on a Georgia plantation, with a mule drawn wagon, the pointers point the bird, you get off the wagon with the retriever and his handler, you shoot the bird, the lab or golden or whatever retrieves it and every body has a good time.
This is a little rich for my taste and more about being a wealthy gentleman, of which I am neither, than it is about hunting,
but it is tradition and some people like it. the dogs are awesome....................Cj

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by Ms. Cage » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:55 am

My husband and a friend of his used to hunt a GSP and a lab together all the time on phez. Howie and Greg would always talk how deadly the combo was. Keep in mind both had well trained , broke dogs and the GSP would stand through most anything.

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by Neil » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:18 am

jfwhit wrote:Bobman, I'm already thinking this way. And if I get the wife on board for a second gun dog, going with another pointing dog. Get my lab when I'm too old to walk the fields all day. I can see where it would work better with someone else handling the lab.

Jimbo, Neil, Pato, mnaj, you've given me things I didn't think about. I want my time in the field to be relaxing and enjoyable. I want to get away from the city and enjoy the dog work.

Grange and oldbeek, I would love to experience this just for the dog work alone.

Thanks for all the reply's.

Jeff
Jeff,

You are most welcome, good luck with whatever you do. You are very gracious, rare these days.

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Grange
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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by Grange » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:02 pm

As long as you have a flusher that is trained to sit and stay and will honor another dog then you shouldn't have a problem.

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Post by jarbo03 » Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:23 pm

I did it for 12 years with a britt and a lab, put a lot of wild birds in the bag with those two. I didn't need the lab for any retrieving situations, but in cattails and standing grain fields he was awesome. Handling became more important, afterwards I was ready for only one dog. Got a griff, he is both my pointer and retriever!

jfwhit
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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by jfwhit » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:26 pm

Jarbo03. Irony is my Brit breeder also breeds Grifs. May have to get one!!

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ezzy333
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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:32 am

jfwhit wrote:Jarbo03. Irony is my Brit breeder also breeds Grifs. May have to get one!!
You need to remember every breed of a pointing type dog retrieves. You may find one occasionally that doesn't want to but normally they will do a good job if encouraged. There was a time where retrieving was an important phase of every bird dogs job but then some tried to develop certain qualities while ignoring others and we ended up with what we call today the speciality breeds instead of the common behavior. So now we call the dogs that still are bred to perform all of the job versatile. In my mind we did not do any one any favors when the completely natural dog in all parts of the hunting game was no longer the norm. However, the dogs still carry the instinct if you nurture it a little.

Ezzy
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Post by jarbo03 » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:01 am

Yep, in my opinion any well bred dog will be a solid retriever, regardless of breed. When I call my dogs a retriever, it refers to waterfowl hunting. My britts were great waterfowl dogs til the water got too cold.

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jarbo03
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Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by jarbo03 » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:02 am

jfwhit wrote:Jarbo03. Irony is my Brit breeder also breeds Grifs. May have to get one!!

Very nice, which kennel is that?

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UglyD
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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by UglyD » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:16 pm

Both my buddies do- always have

1. Drat and a chessie
2. Wirehair and a Golden

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by jfwhit » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:20 pm

Chisholm Trail Brittany's.

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Re: Upland hunting with a pointing dog and a Retriever.

Post by Grange » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:39 pm

For the Grouse opener this weekend I hunted my lab with my setter, two GWPs and three brittanies and it worked great. Here is a picture of a what typically happens when a dog goes on point near my lab.

Image

Here is a video of the action. I figured it was a woodcock due to my setter's style and since woodcock season isn't open I grabbed my phone instead of trying to shoot the bird. Notice my lab doesn't break on the flush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt7Ippd ... e=youtu.be

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