anyone hunting east tn grouse

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:05 pm

just wondering how the hunting going and if there any birds

ridgerunner · Post by **ridgerunner** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:10 am

I've been going after them..... Moving a few, there's not a lot of food this year or at least that's what I'm noticing where I'm hunting at.

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:08 am

i use to jump a lot of grouse in the tacket creek area the birds seems to get less and less each year lots of clear cuts as loging is very active around there i now spend most of my hunting in michigan i dont know what happend to all the grouse hear in tn

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:38 am

What happened?
It's not all about Habitat

everywhere across the bird's range and Hunter additivity enters regardless of a shotgun's boom.
There are a lot of reasons when populations reach or pass a tipping point of recovery....Build it and they will come is a flawed concept at certain points on a decline curve.
Plus, I suspect there can often be a health component involved that weakens the birds at the wrong time....rather than outright death....WN has been found in a number of ruffed grouse.
Avoid late season hunting and pray a bit.
Maybe, hope that the raptor migration down the spine of the Apps finds sustinence other than Bonasa U.
And, IF you have timber management past the token level....be thankful, especially if NFs are involved.

ridgerunner · Post by **ridgerunner** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:56 pm

Hey setter point just wandering if you have been in the Tackett creek area yet this year??

ridgerunner · Post by **ridgerunner** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:03 pm

I saw where the TWRA has leased that..... I know it's logged....

ridgerunner · Post by **ridgerunner** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:05 pm

There's not a lot of food this year, I bet they are in there somewhere. They might not be in there the way they used to but it' beats setting on the couch lol..... As long as there's one I'm going.....

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:40 pm

havent hunted this year at all in tn iv been in michigan trying to build a cabin will have it all done this spring thats why i wondering how the huntings going i will try and hunt some now that im back

evans213 · Post by **evans213** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:50 pm

Another member on here and me flushed 2 in the first thirty minutes. That was in the Cherokee National Forest. The weather was awful, raining and cold. The birds were above us along side a access rode up on the bank, so the dogs didn't find them as they were hunting the creek and bank on the other side. That's all I've gotten to go so far! To much working going on this year, hopefully work slows down towards the first of the yet and after.

ridgerunner · Post by **ridgerunner** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:56 pm

There are some plans to really start logging the Cherokee nat Forest!!

evans213 · Post by **evans213** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:57 pm

ridgerunner wrote:There are some plans to really start logging the Cherokee nat Forest!!

I live about 10 minutes from the mountain rode over by the south holston river. They have done some logging out through there that looks to be about 20 years old, and last year done some burning on out the mountain. Those logging spots look great for the king ruffed, lots of green briars, plenty of cover, oak trees, and a small stream that runs around one. Last year I went to that spot 3 or 4 times with my pup to let her run and try to get a wild bird encounter. I never even heard one flush. I may try it again this year.

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:12 pm

same thing over hear tacket area great cover clearcuts everwhere should hold birds i will get out after deer season to give it a try

evans213 · Post by **evans213** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:17 pm

Went this morning for a couple of hours. Saw nothing, plenty of green briars and Larual but no birds. I'm about sick of this. The pour dog hunts her legs off for nothing.

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:44 pm

where are you hunting at

evans213 · Post by **evans213** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:53 pm

Today I was at Cherokee national forest off of route 421, just above South Holston Lake. My dog is just 1.5 years old, she has seen plenty off pen raised quail. She hunts hard in the woods, I just can't seem to find a place with birds. If I could just here one flush I would be happy knowing I was in a place with birds. The first time we went this year two flushed, nut the place I was at was with a friend that took me there and I don't want to run in on his honey holes.

Luminary Setters · Post by **Luminary Setters** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:28 pm

I don't hunt that way much anymore, but I use to find birds around Whig Meadows. You can get there off the Cherahala. It borders NC, so no where you are or be sure to have a NC license.

ridgerunner · Post by **ridgerunner** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:53 pm

Yes a NC license is a must!!!!!

ridgerunner · Post by **ridgerunner** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:59 pm

Hey evans213, you need to look toward Virginia since you are so close to there....

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:20 pm

as iv said years ago i could have birds up evan on bad days have had 20 or more birds on good days in tacket creek area my age wont let me hunt hard all day i plan on hunting some in jan around vally creek area in tacket creek manage area hope the birds are back some i know it will never be as good as it used to be just love to watch the dogs work birds

ridgerunner · Post by **ridgerunner** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:39 am

I hope you find some setterpoint..... Hopefully we'll have better weather!!

evans213 · Post by **evans213** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:30 pm

ridgerunner wrote:Hey evans213, you need to look toward Virginia since you are so close to there....

My family owns land on clinch mountain, that meets National Forest. Also, Larual bed management land is only about thirty minutes from the cabin. I am going to hunt both of this in January, after deer season. I could hunt all day, I just don't won't to bore the dog not finding birds.

ridgerunner · Post by **ridgerunner** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:32 pm

Anyone been hunting????

evans213 · Post by **evans213** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:12 am

Went new years eve. The deer hunters had every spot covered only dropped the dog twice, the one spot we dropped looked prime, but no birds flown. Suppose to go in VA tomorrow, weather permitting. My dad flushed 2 the last day of deer season walking into his tree stand.

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:05 pm

had one bird up wensday we were rabbit though big mountain to try and find one bird but who knows might be a few more

evans213 · Post by **evans213** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:42 pm

Went this morning where my dad flushed 2 on VA side. Nothing not even a flush. We walked about 3 miles in and probably more out going a different way. I getting discouraged, if I could here a couple flushes I would feel better. This place looked great, lots of cover and green briar and grape vines everywhere. I mean one spot had grape vines in all oat every tree.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:26 pm

IF someone is moving but one or two ruffed grouse in a day while in good cover with good dogs then someone might be wise to not hunt....as late season in the Apps. is not the time to either shoot a bird or flush them so causing the bird to expend needed energy and to open them up to avian predation...not to mention the home range advantages.

When a ruffed grouse population sits low on a decline curve even the small factors of decline, such as hunter additivity and the nuitritional value of late season food, increase in effect.
Or, just go grouse hunting and hope the difficulties faced by the bird are from other sources.

Not hunting is hard, especially with birddogs in front of the fire but it can be one of the most right things we, as Grousehunters, can do in a true late season and in areas not blessed with the particulars to help the bird.

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:06 pm

ok hear we go again. we are hunting prime habatat where birds used to be plentful i mean 10 to 15 flushes in a day and now if you evan hear one your lucky what happend what went so wrong. when they brought in the turkeys the grouse numbers started going down. the more the turkeys thrived the more decline in grouse hear you cant go in the woods where there arent turkey scraching everwhere we have clear cuts thats prime for grouse you will find turkeys but no grouse. iv been told one has nothing to do with the other. then whats the problem i can get no answersto this qustion

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:34 pm

setterpoint wrote:ok hear we go again. we are hunting prime habatat where birds used to be plentful i mean 10 to 15 flushes in a day and now if you evan hear one your lucky what happend what went so wrong. when they brought in the turkeys the grouse numbers started going down. the more the turkeys thrived the more decline in grouse hear you cant go in the woods where there arent turkey scraching everwhere we have clear cuts thats prime for grouse you will find turkeys but no grouse. iv been told one has nothing to do with the other. then whats the problem i can get no answersto this qustion

I would suggest that there is no single reason for the ruffed grouse decline...just as habitat is no single answer for recovery, ie early successional habitat.
While turkey predation has never been proven thru videos of grouse nests(ACGRP for one) the nature of their scratching in areas where grouse nests often are would indicate there is a small connection...eating grouse chicks would be much, much less of a chance.
However, it is very popular to always look for a big black hat and that fits the turkey for many....sadly.
But yes, turkeys likely play a small role, just as does late season hunting additivity...or shed hunting or any late season woods activity.
Were I to guess, I would also guess that West Nile plays a role...not in deaths but in reducing health and vigor re breeding success. WN has been found in ruffed grouse.
In many locales there has been a decline in trapping which increases the nest predators named coons, skunks and possums.
Each of those critters have also been happily fed to breeding fatness by the explosion of deer feeders whirring nearly 365 days a year...darn deer hunters.
And, the spine of the Apps is a natural migration corridor for raptors and they certainly take their share.
Or, farm succession is past a helping point re early successional; forest management perscriptions such as shelterwood which leaves raptor perches as opposed to true clearcuts is not a help; SELC obstructionist lawsuits on the NFs makes a difference and keeps the harvest on the forest down to, often, less than 3% of that allowable.
I could go on as that would be but a few of the reasons for declining ruffed grouse in the Apps.

One also needs to be honest in reckoning that grouse populations have been, at times, artificially high due to Progress...which halts.
Sustaining high populations is tough with a bird that is untouchable with either trap and transfer or raise and release and one which finds their sweet spot in habitat to be less than 20 years prime.

The problem is that as the grouse population slides down the curve, all these small reasons or factors of Bonasa U's decline gain in importance and so affect...in other areas of the country and at other times of the year their small affect is absorbable by a healthy grouse population.

However, listing all the factors affecting and steepening the ruffed grouse decline over the central and southern Appalachians in the last decade(or to my eye the decline began in the late 70s in Ohio) would be seperate from the ill-advised nature of hunting ruffed grouse when numbers are so low...for the reasons I noted and more.
Hunters have an affect in stressed areas today......just wanting to keep a dog happy is no fit reason to roll the dice with such a special bird.
People will tho...they are very much like deer hunters in that regard of self-interest.

evans213 · Post by **evans213** » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:22 pm

Turkeys are everywhere, that's for sure. Heck, just yesterday on my home from work one flew directly over the hood of the car. If I would have been going 2 MPH faster I would be replacing the front window. Now, as far as hunting them late season goes, I see your point mountaineer. However, how can I be hurting something that's not there? My dog is getting really good at finding ghosts and I am thinking about starting a paranormal TV show about hunting with a ghost finding dog. If I heard (1) bird flush or the dog pointed it, and I didn't get a shot, I would leave that area. I would mark it in the memory bank and then go in there early season to see whats happening. I wouldn't hunt it to death late season and I am not hunting the same spots over and over now. Plus, late season is about the only time grouse hunters have the woods to them selves because of deer hunters everywhere, heck I am a deer hunter myself and killed a monster this year

The problem is finding the birds (if there is any), once you find them then you can manage them. Also, there is no way that turkey don't play an important role in the decline of grouse. It's only common sense to know that turkey will tear a ridge up looking for food and eating. Do you think they are going to say "oh there's a grouse nest, I better leave that alone", no I didn't think so either. The predators play a big role as well, I don't know of anybody that traps and only a hand full that hunt raccoon anymore. Another big problem for the grouse is rode hunters, people that drive the mountain roads and shot one or five if they see em. They don think about the numbers, also they have no respect for the wildlife and should be arrested and prosecuted if caught. Now the other big effect and we could drag this thread on for days with, is habitat. The NF's need to have some clear cuts, but that's hard to do when liberals run the country. Anyway, my tired dog and me are going to bed. Hopefully those spooky ghosts we saw today don't haunt us in our dreams.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:18 am

evans213 wrote:.... If I heard (1) bird flush or the dog pointed it, and I didn't get a shot, I would leave that area. ....

The activity is legal, that is all many require.
I do wonder tho then when one is finding so few ruffed grouse then, if you did get a shot.....why in the world would you shoot?
Let alone want to flush a bird in bad times.
That question is rhetorical.
I stopped hunting grouse in Ohio when my flush rates went to about 1 bird every two hours.
Ohio dropped Feb. from the season a few decades too late....it would not have balanced out succession but, it would have slowed the decline.
Ohio is not blessed with the factors of weather and terrain that helps some states erect ruffed grouse hunting hurdles.....that is why we saw the future...sooner.
My personal decision was after hunting them since 1964 and in a state where flush numbers were once comparable to the upper great lakes in average years.....it is tough to disappoint a pup and not go, I agree.

As I said, turkeys do play a role...large?...I doubt it, one can simply not ignore pretty good studies.
Just some local, regional areas will see more of an effect.....I would not be surprised that both Wisconsin and Maine have seen an effect.
The main point for the central and sountern Apps. is that reasons, affectable and not, abound for the grouse's slide and despite the occassional and fleeting blip up in pockets of populations...more is required than "hunting as long as one is out there."
But, few will agree and the beat will go on.....little reason to discuss further than conscience requires the making of a statement.
Have a nice day.

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:30 pm

iv heard the west nile thing if a grouse can get it then turkeys can to and it dont seem to have no efect on them but for sure somthing has on grouse i wish i knew what

evans213 · Post by **evans213** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:29 pm

Does anyone know where one could go that is not very far off, maybe like a weekend trip, before the season ends? I would consider traveling about 5-8 hours to hunt as long as I knew wild birds were there. I would like to that before this season is out.

boonebrit · Post by **boonebrit** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:44 pm

Here are a couple of NC/TN border birds taken earlier in the month.

jack the dog · Post by **jack the dog** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:49 am

Hunting over the hill form you in SW NC. Not a good year for grouse over here.

jack the dog · Post by **jack the dog** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:50 am

Double post, sorry.

Gun Dog Forum