Gun Dog Forum

Last three years I hunted about 20 days each year in NE Washington for Forest Grouse with my Setter. In all three years I encountered Wolves who seemed to have an unhealthy interest in my dog. Luckily I was able to recall the dog, fire off a couple of warning shots and beat feet back to the truck without incident. I'm wondering if any of you guys/gals who hunt the East or West slope of the Rockies ( Idaho, Montana, BC, Alberta, Washington) with substantial Wolf populations have had any similar experiences or is this just my bad luck? Dog and I hunt very quietly and use GPS, no bells or beepers. Also was carrying dead birds in my vest at the time.
Maybe I need to make more noise? Or give up hunting the area..............

I've seen wolves around our place in NW Montana but haven't had issues. Grizzlies are another issue entirely. There is a reason why I'm always carrying a pistol. We're in the epicenter of prime grizzly habitat.

There are two lines of thought on bells, (1) they'll spook a bear out of the area or at least make your presence known so they'll have an opportunity to avoid confrontation and (2) you're just ringing the dinner bell. Generally, I tend to agree with thought #1.

Three years ago I had a Black Wolf encounter while hunting sharp tail in NE Montana.

I had my two GSP's on the ground and my older dog, Dutch, went on hard point. I leased up the then pup and put her on whoa. I walked up to Dutch ready for the flush. No flush and Dutch wasn't going to move. I then looked where Dutch was looking and there it was about 75 yards out, a black wolf. I fired my 20 ga at it, remember it was 75 yards out. Well it didn't even run, it just walked off and looked back a few times. This was open country less than a mile out of a very small town.

Later that week I talked to a local that saw a black wolf while on his school bus route.

I hunted elk up on the Green River Lakes and was successful every time. I will not go into that area again because of the wolves. They warn people about the grizzles in that area, but the wolves are killing everything.

I have a big concern hunting ruffed grouse in the timber because of wolves.

Wolves will stalk you and your dogs. I know a houndsman from Idaho that will not run his dogs in northern Idaho/Montana because of the wolves.

No problems here. There are wolves in the areas I hunt in western Idaho but I've had no encounters, nor have I heard stories of encounters from others. Every now and then a bow hunter will say they saw one, but that just adds to the "wildness" of the places we go.

They're definitely a factor in NE Oregon. They approach hunting dogs here as well especially females. Curious and territorial at the same time I think. OR wolves are not hunted and they will come right in after a dog if you are quiet. Making noise at the initial encounter seems to help. I try and avoid known territories and can't take the dogs horn hunting in the springtime. Seems like there's always wolves where elk and deer winter. I think most people here try to keep their dogs in sight but tough to do in the timber. We have a website maintained by ODFW on collar locations on a weekly basis primarily to help ranchers manage livestock but it's really useful for hunters too. Maybe WA also has a similar info source on their collared animals or known pack locations?

There are wolves all over here in Western Wyoming. I hunt, hike and backpack all over and have never seen one (alive). I do worry about running into them, not for my own safety, but for my dogs that are often well out of sight in rough country. They are renowned for going after dogs, although most attacks are working dogs protecting livestock (not saying all). I have on many occasions seen fresh tracks when out with my dogs and have to say it makes me scared for my dogs for sure.

FYI, I hunt the Green River Lakes area, and it is still swarming with elk!

wolves will kill your dog same as they will kill coyotes. Eliminating competition is natural behavior.

Thanks for the replies.

Friends of mine hunt the same area for grouse with flushing dogs that range no more than 25 to 40 yards and are never out of sight. They have never seen a Wolf. My Setter (Jack) is (was) a horseback field trial all open age until he was 8. Even at 12 years old he still hunts from 100 to 500 yards out at 7 -11 mph and is rarely in sight until he points, then I find him with GPS.

Based on what you all have said, It's pretty obvious that Jack is being located by Wolves at great distances from me and they are tracking him back to me. Or locating him and the Grouse he's pointing and running him off.

I think he and I will hunt the lowlands for Quail and Grays for the rest of his life and then I may be to old to hunt the forest anyway. I'm already too old to fight wolves for my dog.

Not sure I'm adding any value to this thread other than what I know of the area.

We spend time in WA around Kettle Falls and over Sherman Pass in Republic w/family.

Have never had my dog on the ground there but have had ambition to do just that w/in the next few years as we aim to move back to the NW at some point.

Anyhow, last time there BIL was telling me there is a known wolf population whom has moved into the area up around Curlew and moving toward Republic..this was about 2 yrs ago. Haven't gotten a report for awhile.

The last time there BIL and I were hiking a bit..saw plenty of Grouse and happened upon a cat kill but no wolves.

I don't know that I'd ever forgive myself if my dog fell victim to wolves/bear/cat.

Hopefully folks whom hunt in these sorts of territories will share experience and perhaps offer a basic education on the subject so we don't end up "just a babe in the woods" should pup and I find ourselves on the ground. I think I would always carry a handgun and do my best to keep pup in sight (that would be somewhat difficult as I'd be hacking on him constant).

Should we reconsider and stick to the open country south of Spokane?

Does open country (meadows) in the upper NW offer any real protection aside a visual advantage?

Would sticking to open country be nothing more than a false sense of security?

The Washington State Fish and Wildlife tracks Wolf packs with breeding pair radio collars. Here's their URL http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wo ... urvey.html. Unofficially they estimate 120 Wolves in packs in WA and an unknown number (probably 15 to 20) loners.

The pack I encountered is probably the "Wedge" pack. Most of that pack were killed or trapped and transported last year because of repeated predation on livestock. The area I was hunting for Ruffed is the forest edge and small streams that are adjacent to grazing pasture along the Kettle River. Probably a really bad choice given that these Wolves were accustomed to seeing people, livestock and dogs on the ranches they were hunting. There are also Lion and Griz in these areas but I have never seen any. WDFW also publishes a 'Wolf Predation Report, which details livestock losses and locations which would help you stay out of hot spots.

I would probably continue to hunt these areas if I had dogs that hunted within sight. But with big going dogs I think the risk is pretty high.

Another hunting buddy suggested that we take along his stock guard dog on grouse hunts. The dog is a Komondor who has killed at least 35 Coyotes in the last few years on his ranch in Curlew. Look it up, "bleep" dog you've ever seen :
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M140 ... 6&h=95&c=7 ..............Of course he might eat other dogs as well as Coys..............

P.S. and on a completely different note, regarding the whole revolver/pistol for dangerous game issue: Just a note on relative ballistics: e.g. 300 grain 44 Magnum out of 7 " barrel at 20 yards: 750 foot pounds of energy, 300 grain 12 gauge shotgun slug at 20 yards 2000 foot pounds of energy, 20 gauge 1600 foot pounds of energy. There is a reason why Alaskan Guides carry 12 gauge shotguns in Brown Bear country.

Thank you for the additional information.

Good advice to carry along some slugs for the shotgun & thanks for posting the ballistics b/c the numbers really do put it in perspective.

I would still pack a .44..

Glad this subject came up as it adds perspective..I know myself and I can say with fair certainty things would not go well for me if I were to find my dog tangled up in a dangerous situation..I really do not 'think' I'd be able to stand idly by or high tail it outta' there leaving my dog behind regardless of the danger to myself.

Here's to hoping none of us finds out!

Rik..good luck out there and if you hook up w/your buddy along with his stock guard dog I sure hope you'll post your real world experience hunting the area.

(Like you, I have a big runner of a dog and he loves the woods.)

Tooling,

A little follow up info in case you decide to try the Grouse around Republic/Kettle River:

My buddy with the guard dog knows the people who run Bearpaw Outfitters in Colville. They track the Elk herd migrations in areas they guide. The Wolf packs follow the Elk herds most of the year, including all of hunting season. They direct their Grouse hunting clients to areas where there are no Elk and have not sighted any packs. They have had one unverified report of a lone Wolf but suspect it may have been a Coyote.

P.S. 1. Their guides carry 44s, mostly to make noise in case Griz show up at an Elk kill. Since the Wolves have been reintroduced, they have had to drive them off of Elk and Deer kills a dozen times. The noise seems to work. 2. Bearpaw also sells maps of Grouse Hunting Areasthat they guide in that, while pricey I found to be excellent.
www.bearpawoutfitters.com

Rik..thank you for the additional information.

The ways in which the guides track the Elk is very clever and not having ever hunted in an environment such as that, that’s precisely the sort of education I do not have.

Seems so simple..lol

You are detailing the precise areas that I hope to frequent and I am also looking forward to putting that fly tying kit my wife gave me to good use in coming years along the Kettle..your advice will serve me well in that situation also. (With exception of Griz & Cat of course)

On another note, you referenced something in another post & I hope it is okay to comment - I live within earshot of the Potomac River and I have a pretty nice Bass Boat along with much experience along the entire river. I do not fish tournaments however the Wounded Warrior Project conducts annual tournaments here on the river.

These wounded soldiers are paired with a pro in order to participate.

I do not participate b/c as I said..I’m not a tournament kind of guy..but I’ve got a killer boat so what I do, do..Days before the tx these fellas’ show up and want to practice..I frequently take them out fishing and show them the most recent hot spots and share techniques/baits that happen to be the golden ticket at the moment.

Let’s just say that I have met some pretty remarkable people.

I’ve shared that to tell you one thing.

Guys like you make me feel very small & I commend you.

Pup loves the boat too but it is hard to keep him in it!!

I see recently they had to eliminate one of the packs in NE Washington because of livestock predation. We have quite a few even in central Washington. Add that to way to many cougars and plenty of bear and you have to watch out for the dogs. My son was hiking with his wife and two young kids and had a sow bear come out of the brush right behind his shorthair "bears are fast". He stepped in front of the family and drew his 44. Luckily he didn't have to fire. He got a picture of the cub up a tree.

Greg - at first I was surprised by your post b/c I thought the middle of the state (south) was essentially grassland/flatland cover but a review of a map shows the town in your signature as being just east of Mt. Ranier. Although I've flown into Seattle, we haven't any real experience or much knowledge of your region.

Years ago my then girlfriend and now wife & I lived in Airway Heights & the furthest southwest I had gone was Walla Walla.

At this early stage we could end up just north of Spokane, up in Kettle Falls, or over by Couer d'Alene.

How do you like the Yakima area?

Good upland hunting your way?

Nature/population density?

--

Airway Heights was full of Quail back when we were there..sadly, during our last trip we drove by our old place and kicked through the fields with not a single Quail to be found. AH has grown quite a bit..but Zips is still there : )

There are wolves in open grassland/farmland/CRP, etc.

The wolves and bear are mostly up in the timber on the east slopes of the cascades. With hounds not being used on cougar, they are multiplying so much that the young are being pushed out and are being see down in the towns. Far more wolves in NE Washington. Upland birds are down a lot from when I was young. This is 10 minutes from the house but can be in timber in 30 minutes. Two of my kids live in the Wenatchee valley. Really nice area.

Wouldn't call it flat lands

Got elk 15 minutes from the house

30 minutes from the house. Little closer to wolf habitat

Thanks for the info and for the pics Greg - looks like you have some nice hunting & nice landscape close by (sorry for the delayed response).

Your pictures answered one of my main q's..does your side of the mountain see the seasonal rains that the coast does? (I couldn't deal w/that)

I happened to see a wolf Tuesday morning while grouse hunting (in Minnesota). I just called my dog back, waited a bit, then carried on. I don't think the wolf would've done anything. It seemed small... Maybe 75lbs? But my pointer can be dumb sometimes and I worried she might approach it like it's another dog.

mnaj_springer wrote:I happened to see a wolf Tuesday morning while grouse hunting (in Minnesota). I just called my dog back, waited a bit, then carried on. I don't think the wolf would've done anything. It seemed small... Maybe 75lbs? But my pointer can be dumb sometimes and I worried she might approach it like it's another dog.

A couple yrs back we happened upon a Coyote in SD..pup was thrilled thinking he had found a playmate & started happy-footing straight toward.

Called him off and all was good.

Wolf packs about would have me concerned.

I had an encounter a couple weeks ago by Hoyt Lakes, MN. First trail of the morning, 200 yards in and I started hearing them howl from straight down wind. They were close, at least 5 or 6 of them from what I could tell. Glad they howled instead of coming over for a visit! That's 3 out of 6 years in NE MN that I've encountered wolves while grouse hunting. First time I had one on each side escorting my dog and I out of the woods the last 1/4 mile or so at dusk. Second time I came around a corner and had a big black one 40 yards ahead of me and the dog right on the trail. Now this. I wish they'd start the wolf hunt again, there are way too many these days.

plenty of wolves in NE MN. I know those with some romantic attachment to wolves think man and dog should not interfere into the wolf domain, but if you enjoy hunting woodland game, you stand the chance of running into wolves. For that reason, I pack a sidearm (I want something with better stopping power than a shotgun) in case we have an encounter with a wolf. I don't want my dogs to get the bad end of an encounter.

There are good reasons to carry a handgun but I don't think there has ever been a handgun made with the stopping power of a shotgun.

ezzy333 wrote:There are good reasons to carry a handgun but I don't think there has ever been a handgun made with the stopping power of a shotgun.

Couldn't agree more ezzy.
45acp~450ft-lbs
12g 00-buck~1300ft-lbs
12g slug~3000ft-lbs

I'm glad I don't have to mess with wolves. If I did a 5rd shell holder with slugs would be on my belt. Much more confident with a shotgun at 25 yards than my pistol!

Any experience with shooting slugs or buck shot with tighter chokes?


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Lead buckshot of any size can be safely shot with any choke size normally used for upland bird hunting. Non Rifled lead slugs can be safely shot with Mod, IC, Skeet or Cyl. Rifled slugs are safest with IC or less constriction.

Remember, if you are using a SXS that the shot paths from the barrels cross over at about 35 to 40 yards which doesn't matter much with shot but can be significant with a single projectile.

Double ought (00) buckshot is a good option for Wolves, and you won't have to think about what chokes you have in before you load and shoot. I carry a blank, a couple of buckshot and a couple of slugs which can be effective on bear as well as Wolves and Coyotes.

All the Wolf encounters I've had have been resolved by firing for noise. The biggest problem I have is my dogs are frequently out of sight and very curious about Wolves we've encountered, so lately I've been using ecollars on the dogs in Wolf country.

GSPONPOINT32 wrote:
Any experience with shooting slugs or buck shot with tighter chokes?

You will have no problem shooting any lead slug out of a full choke shotgun made in the last 60 years, although that is not ideal.

nikegundog wrote:

GSPONPOINT32 wrote:
Any experience with shooting slugs or buck shot with tighter chokes?

You will have no problem shooting any lead slug out of a full choke shotgun made in the last 60 years, although that is not ideal.

That comment made me realize that one of my pump gun is 78 years old. How time flies.

ezzy333 wrote:There are good reasons to carry a handgun but I don't think there has ever been a handgun made with the stopping power of a shotgun.

I checked the regs in WI and it seems to say it is illegal to possess slug or buck rounds in the field, unless deer or bear is in season and you have a permit. Handgun is legal if you have a CCW license though. I assume he was comparing birdshot to a handgun. Not to mention the time to reload.

Makintrax73 wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:There are good reasons to carry a handgun but I don't think there has ever been a handgun made with the stopping power of a shotgun.

I checked the regs in WI and it seems to say it is illegal to possess slug or buck rounds in the field, unless deer or bear is in season and you have a permit. Handgun is legal if you have a CCW license though. I assume he was comparing birdshot to a handgun. Not to mention the time to reload.

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I hunted WI for Grouse a few years ago and was told by Game Officer that if I was not hunting Deer or not hunting during Deer season(i.e. Had no Deer tag) I could carry all the buckshot I wanted............Didn't ask about slugs. Deer wasn't open while I hunted grouse so it didn't matter anyway. He also said that the law was not clear regarding shooting a Wolf to protect a pet, and that I would probably be cited if I killed a Wolf and my life was not in danger.

Here's what he said: (I assume he was quoting regs).

Illegal to hunt with or while in possession of buckshot while hunting deer, except a hunter may possess
buckshot for harvesting a bobcat during a deer season if in possession of a valid, unfilled
bobcat harvest permit for an open bobcat season.

Guess I better check the regs before I go back Wisconsin for Grouse...........


This was several (four or five?) years ago and may no longer be the case...........

http://dnr.wi.gov/files/PDF/pubs/wm/WM0430.pdf

Page 4-5

It is illegal to:
........
Possess or control shotshells loaded with a single slug or ball while hunting any game bird or wild turkey except during open gun deer or bear seasons. Shotshells loaded with a single slug or ball are legal during any season for hunting small game species, including coyote, fox and bobcat, but not for hunting game birds or wild turkey;
• Hunt while in possession of shot or shotshells loaded with shot larger than no. BB (including buckshot) from June 1–Dec. 13 except:
– Non-toxic shot size BBB and T may be used for hunting waterfowl;
– Shot larger than BB may be possessed and used for the purpose of hunting bobcat.

I can certainly appreciate knowing what the law is and saying "screw it" because we are talking the life of you or your dog, but that is a direct quote from the regs.

Can't carry buckshot in Wi. I carry a .45 on my side at all times in wolf country, which is where I am all the time. They've killed over 40 dogs here this year.

40 Dogs this year? Wow that's scary. Were these dogs lost guarding livestock, pets in the yard or hunting dogs?
Washington Fish and Wildlife says 10 dogs were killed by Wolves in WA last year and that 7 were associated with livestock and three were hunting dogs. We only have about 140 Wolves so maybe those numbers are proportional.
Kinda makes you wonder about how safe it is to hunt Grouse in ''The Grouse Capital of the World" WI.

Since you guys pointed out these laws against carrying buckshot during hunting seasons, I've checked most of the other state regs and found that several states in the Midwest and most of the States in the Northeast have similar regulations. In most of them you can carry a handgun while hunting but not buckshot.

I wonder what the rationale is for this? Safety? Hunters can't avoid the temptation to use buckshot on Grouse or Deer?

Is it true that to carry a handgun in the field during hunting season in WI you have to have a Concealed Carry Permit that is not available to to non residents? So I'd have to defend my dog using number 7 shot on Wolves...............Maybe I'll just go fishing instead.

tekoa wrote:40 Dogs this year? Wow that's scary.
Kinda makes you wonder about how safe it is to hunt Grouse in ''The Grouse Capital of the World" WI.

Maybe I'll just go fishing instead.

My thoughts exactly...

We have to worry about this nonsense in PA and Ohio. I'm scared to think what I would have done to this man.

http://fox8.com/2016/11/30/hunter-faces ... rush-pile/


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Never worry about hunting grouse in WI. or MN. We have a hellofa lot more Timbers in MN. than WI.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.3888254

This is from my sister's part of BC they have a real problem with the wolves coming into the valley bottoms for the moose kills from the trains and highways.

Something to keep in mind is where your highways maintenance dumps their carcasses wolves and coyotes will protect their food.

Grant

Hey, I'm the 'Rik' that started this conversation, screwed up my password to the point I had to re-register as 'tekoa'.

Against my own advice, I returned to the South Selkirks for some Grouse Hunting last week with my Setter, Jack. Had a great hunt for two days. Morning we were to head home we went out during a light snow fall for a last look around. Jack, as usual was a 150 yards out, on point, when I heard him yelp in pain. I called him and heard what sounded like a dog fight. I headed in his direction, only to see him fly by me at what must have been 30 miles an hour, streaming blood behind him. 15 seconds later, two Gray Wolves come running down the slope. I fired off a couple of rounds of bird shot and the noise turned the Wolves around. I ran back to the road and found Jack under the truck. After checking him out I found some tree bark in a small puncture wound on his chest. It appears as though he ran and punctured himself on a tree branch.

I'm really surprised that he ran. I would have expected him to fight. Sure glad he turned chicken.

After Jack heals up we're headed to Arizona to hunt Quail. I'd rather watch for rattlers than Wolves. I doubt we'll ever go back to Wolf country.............

Wow close call!
South Selkirks near Colville? We have to stop Nov 30 but even then I stay close to the valley bottom Not much snow to slow the deer down I expect the wolves are missing their easy meals.

Grant

Near Colville, on the East side of Kettle River. We were up pretty high looking for Forest Grouse,and did see some Elk. My dog may have interrupted a Wolf/Elk hunt. The locals say that since the "Wedge Pack" was killed or relocated, they have not seen any Wolves in the valleys. I should have hunted Ruffs in the Valley edges.

I'm still not sure what really happened, I don't think my pup has run that fast in 10 years.

Living in Northern MN with wolves all around,I guess I have been very fortunate not to have had a run in with a wolf while hunting with my dogs. I put a trail camera out a 100 yards across a road from our house,and I get wolf pictures. I do have four dogs,maybe they are enough of a threat to keep the wolves out of the yard.

We deer hunt up around the curlew/republic area, and have seen tons of wolf tracks. Kinda makes you a little nervous when your tiptoeing through the timber in the early morning darkness and hear a branch crack behind you. We did talk to a game warden while we were up there who told us that the locals were not taking the wolves being around very lightly, and a lot of the pack was going missing. Also told us that a gut shot wolf would run close to a mile away and that there was no chance that they would ever figure out who did the shooting.

cpinkert wrote:I had an encounter a couple weeks ago by Hoyt Lakes, MN. First trail of the morning, 200 yards in and I started hearing them howl from straight down wind. They were close, at least 5 or 6 of them from what I could tell. Glad they howled instead of coming over for a visit! That's 3 out of 6 years in NE MN that I've encountered wolves while grouse hunting. First time I had one on each side escorting my dog and I out of the woods the last 1/4 mile or so at dusk. Second time I came around a corner and had a big black one 40 yards ahead of me and the dog right on the trail. Now this. I wish they'd start the wolf hunt again, there are way too many these days.

That's un-nerving..glad you stayed safe.

--

Rik/tekoa - sorry to hear of your last encounter over near Colville. Glad it turned out to be a heck of a scare in lieu of the other possibilities.

My nephew and his buddies bowhunted (deer) around Republic extensively this past season. They reported alot of cats around, and some wolves as well. BIL tells me that his friends with livestock have suffered some losses and as deke pointed out, it's not being taken lightly. Nephew promised me that he and his buddies aren't doing so but there are in fact people in the area administering gut shots. It's sad when man and nature clash.

The extended family that I've referenced have been in Republic for years..they've always got stories to tell about bears making their way into town. I don't think the bears are generally "eliminated".

Anyhow, apparently a collared wolf was struck and killed by a car on the pass just a month or two ago. Sure hope Mother Nature sorts this out somehow!

We'll likely be headed to Deer Park for a visit pretty soon..not sure when and not sure if I should take the dog if timing of the trip puts us out there come Grouse season..

Tooling,

Just talked to the guys at Bearpaw Guide Outfitters about the Wolf situation in NE WA. They said that last year their Grouse hunting clients did not encounter any Wolves in September or the first half of November. Once snow in the higher elevations started to move the Elk to lower pastures, encounters with Wolves increased dramatically. By December Wolves were being seen in pasture lands on ranches.

They believe that, If you hunt Ruffs and Spruce up to 4,000 feet in September and October, you probably won't encounter any Wolves. Hunting Duskies (Blues) at higher elevations in those months puts you in Elk, Wolf territory. Also, they believe that if you can keep you dogs in sight and they will recall reliably, a couple of warning shots always moves the Wolves off.

The only Wolf encounter that has involved injury to a birddog that they know of occurred with a female lab who was in heat. She was as big as the Wolves and gave a good account of herself and wasn't badly hurt. Glad it wasn't my Setters, they are serious wimps, who fortunately are very fast.

So, I'd take the dog to hunt some Grouse in September and not worry about Wolves. Althogh I'd take a few slugs for the shotgun just in case................

tekoa wrote:Tooling,

Just talked to the guys at Bearpaw Guide Outfitters about the Wolf situation in NE WA. They said that last year their Grouse hunting clients did not encounter any Wolves in September or the first half of November. Once snow in the higher elevations started to move the Elk to lower pastures, encounters with Wolves increased dramatically. By December Wolves were being seen in pasture lands on ranches.

They believe that, If you hunt Ruffs and Spruce up to 4,000 feet in September and October, you probably won't encounter any Wolves. Hunting Duskies (Blues) at higher elevations in those months puts you in Elk, Wolf territory. Also, they believe that if you can keep you dogs in sight and they will recall reliably, a couple of warning shots always moves the Wolves off.

The only Wolf encounter that has involved injury to a birddog that they know of occurred with a female lab who was in heat. She was as big as the Wolves and gave a good account of herself and wasn't badly hurt. Glad it wasn't my Setters, they are serious wimps, who fortunately are very fast.

So, I'd take the dog to hunt some Grouse in September and not worry about Wolves. Althogh I'd take a few slugs for the shotgun just in case................

Thank you for the information tekoa..now to determine when we will be going.