Hello, from Boise, ID!

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JonBailey
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Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by JonBailey » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:38 am

I am interested in taking up wingshooting. I want to one day experience the joy of two gun dogs, Golden retrievers, of my own while after grouse, pheasant and dove with a Benelli Montefeltro 20 ga. shotgun barrel over them and with such pooches while at a duck blind with a Benelli Nova pump 12 ga. Many years ago I had several Labrador retrievers as pets only. They have passed on. I have hunted deer and varmints with a rifle but have no shotgun skills. I will have to learn how to shoot a shotgun. I will also have to learn how to find the right pups from the right breeder and learn how to properly train them myself as effective gun dogs. I don't want to spend untold money on professional trainers and would derive much more pride if I were to start and finish my retrievers-to-come from puppyhood myself.

The biggest disadvantage I have is that I don't know a single soul who hunts feathered game and/or has trained gun dogs. Hunting in America often seems to be a cliquish fraternity that somebody around hunting dogs and guns was born into and raised in. Most sport hunters are very rich or were born in the country. The blue-collar fellow from the city or suburbs seeking to enter the joy of pooches and guns is at odds. I need to somehow meet people in my local bird-hunting community to be a mentor and show me the ropes. I was raised in the suburbs of northern California. I wasn't raised in the country or in a hunting community.

What is some helpful advice for newcomers to the sport from those here who have known the joy of birds, dogs and guns in the field?

There is a local retriever club in my community. Should I touch bases with them?

I also sent a local gun club an inquiry as to how they may help newcomers. I am awaiting their reply. I even sent a letter to my state's fish and game to ask them about the availability of public or private land in my area so that hunters may train their dogs off season.


PS - Taking up hunting is a lot different from taking up other sports like fishing, boating, motorcycle riding or camping. Hunting requires a lot of available space to train dogs and hunt game. It often depends upon knowing certain people I've been told over and over again. If one buys a boat, on the other hand, they only need to take a boating safety course and use a public body of water for their recreation. A motorcycle rider has thousands of miles of public roads to play on. Hunting seems more like an exclusive club as is golf.


Should I name the boy puppy "Mark" and the girl "Peg" (sounds like the command Beg)? (Just some silly humor!! :D :D )
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

averageguy
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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by averageguy » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:38 am


Pedro
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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by Pedro » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:08 am

I think you're making this way to hard. One click I found over 1 million acres of private land open to hunters. Additionally there are Wildlife Management Areas or BLM ground, of which there are probably several million acres more. Not sure you could live in a better place to have a bird dog. Good luck.


https://idfg.idaho.gov/hunt/access

shags
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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by shags » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:19 am

You know why wingshooters seem to be an exclusive club? Because they are picky about hunting partners and don't invite just any random guy to share the experience. You have to take baby steps and learn the ropes a little.

Find a hunt club in your area. Plenty of help there. Google hunt clubs, conservation clubs, gun clubs and sportsmens clubs to hit all your bases. .

They should have trap and/or skeet shooting to help you learn to shoot.

If you're a nice fella, you might get an invitation to hunt with a member with or without a dog. That will teach you more.

Don't put the cart before the horse dog-wise. Your dogs could become pets if you decide you don't like wingshooting. but why waste their talent if things don't work out. Also, rethink tne getting two pups at once. There are downsides to that. Get one pup, train it, then when you've got that one where you want him, think about another. A clueless novice -no offense, but you are - will have a tough time training one dog let alone two at the same time.

Baby steps.

fishvik
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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by fishvik » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:59 pm

+1
Definitely a good idea, particularly the hunter ed.

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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by Steve007 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:04 pm

JonBailey wrote:I have hunted deer and varmints with a rifle but have no shotgun skills. I will have to learn how to shoot a shotgun.
)

I was in your position quite a few years ago. After some research, I bought a shotgun (Browning BSS Sporter), started taking shooting lessons and learned to shoot skeet and read lots. It was a good plan. Two years later, I got a bird dog. Step at a time. It's summer. Learn to shoot a shotgun. Professional lessons will accelerate your progress. And buy some books. Read and highlight them.

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JonBailey
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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by JonBailey » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:37 pm

Pedro wrote:I think you're making this way to hard. One click I found over 1 million acres of private land open to hunters. Additionally there are Wildlife Management Areas or BLM ground, of which there are probably several million acres more. Not sure you could live in a better place to have a bird dog. Good luck.


https://idfg.idaho.gov/hunt/access

I am not making anything. It would be HARD to spend a lot of money on dogs, guns, equipment, etc. up front and then later find out it didn't work out.

It's much easier to ask a bunch of questions FIRST and get an education before pulling out a Visa card at a gun dealer or a dog breeder. I don't want to have serious
buyer's remorse. There are definitely caveats to taking up hunting but someone with some sound knowledge ahead of time can make informed decisions
to minimize risks. I see hunting as a significant financial risk.

I know there are a bunch of public places to HUNT, but places to field train a dog, i don't know about.

The availability of local RESOURCES is what's going to determine whether I take up wingshooting or not.
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

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JonBailey
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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by JonBailey » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:52 pm

shags wrote:You know why wingshooters seem to be an exclusive club? Because they are picky about hunting partners and don't invite just any random guy to share the experience. You have to take baby steps and learn the ropes a little.

Find a hunt club in your area. Plenty of help there. Google hunt clubs, conservation clubs, gun clubs and sportsmens clubs to hit all your bases. .

They should have trap and/or skeet shooting to help you learn to shoot.

If you're a nice fella, you might get an invitation to hunt with a member with or without a dog. That will teach you more.

Don't put the cart before the horse dog-wise. Your dogs could become pets if you decide you don't like wingshooting. but why waste their talent if things don't work out. Also, rethink tne getting two pups at once. There are downsides to that. Get one pup, train it, then when you've got that one where you want him, think about another. A clueless novice -no offense, but you are - will have a tough time training one dog let alone two at the same time.

Baby steps.
If I ever get a dog in the future, it will need another dog at home for company when I'm away at work during the day. I'm a single bachelor. The pups may need a hired pet sitter in their tender months. I always have owned dogs in pairs: a male and a bitch. Whether I ever hunt or not, I still want canines companions first and foremost. Their training from puppyhood will start with housebreaking, socialization and obedience, any hunt training would follow later. Golden retrievers will still be great companions whether I pursue hunting. My other passion is boating: water dogs work real well out on the water. I had a boat years ago when I had my Labs. Always happily came along for ballast. My Labs were obedience trained, would never soil the house unless they were kept indoors too long, and fetched bumpers and tennis balls real well. My male black Lab was a great frisbee catcher and a strong swimmer. As I stand now, I have a history of dog training and ownership under my belt already. I bought a Labrador book when I got my first Lab pup in 1997. I had a beagle before that that had to be sent to the pound for destructive behavior in spite of his obedience training. Even reading that book I learned about the terms field trials, hunt tests, field champion and such.
Last edited by JonBailey on Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

Warrior372
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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by Warrior372 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:05 pm

So in Idaho you can field train a dog on any public land outside of the city of course. If you want to do it out of season you need a falconry and dog training license - this allows you to plant and shoot farm raised birds on public land - you have to be on public land to do this out of season not Wildlife Management Areas. If you do this, you need to “mark the birds” so if fish and game were to stop you they know you planted the birds - take the nail cutting clippers for your dog and cut a nail on each bird before you go into the field to train. Second option would be to run you dogs in areas where you think there are wild birds. That would scesentially how I trained my French Brit and because there are so many quail and hubs in the foothills around Boise he figured it out pretty quick. Third option would be to train with farm raised birds on private land. Mortensens in Nampa / Caldwell has a massive net / tent enclosure that allows his birds to run and fly. They are very wild acting raised birds. He sells pheasant, chukar, and some years quail.

Joel Loftis at Rock Creek Shooting club in Horseshoe Bend is a world class gun fitter, shooter, and shooting instructor. I forget exactly what he charges, but I think it was about $100 per hour with a first lesson being around 3 hours due to the gun fitting and intro on you specific gun. Well worth it though, because you want to hit birds when you find them. He is a professional commercial pilot, so his schedule can be a bit hit or miss. That range / gun club has great shooting setups too with a lot on uneven terrain, which makes it a lot more realistic then perfect shooting conditions.

As far as hunting goes, you can get into birds on local WMA spots, BLM just outside of town or generally any public land. It is not hard to find birds outside of Boise.

Other then that, just get out with your dogs. The two of you will learn together. I never went to the local NAVDHA chapter or the local Chukar Society, but I am sure both of those would be good places to meet people.

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JonBailey
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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by JonBailey » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:08 pm

Warrior372 wrote:So in Idaho you can field train a dog on any public land outside of the city of course. If you want to do it out of season you need a falconry and dog training license - this allows you to plant and shoot farm raised birds on public land - you have to be on public land to do this out of season not Wildlife Management Areas. If you do this, you need to “mark the birds” so if fish and game were to stop you they know you planted the birds - take the nail cutting clippers for your dog and cut a nail on each bird before you go into the field to train. Second option would be to run you dogs in areas where you think there are wild birds. That would scesentially how I trained my French Brit and because there are so many quail and hubs in the foothills around Boise he figured it out pretty quick. Third option would be to train with farm raised birds on private land. Mortensens in Nampa / Caldwell has a massive net / tent enclosure that allows his birds to run and fly. They are very wild acting raised birds. He sells pheasant, chukar, and some years quail.

Joel Loftis at Rock Creek Shooting club in Horseshoe Bend is a world class gun fitter, shooter, and shooting instructor. I forget exactly what he charges, but I think it was about $100 per hour with a first lesson being around 3 hours due to the gun fitting and intro on you specific gun. Well worth it though, because you want to hit birds when you find them. He is a professional commercial pilot, so his schedule can be a bit hit or miss. That range / gun club has great shooting setups too with a lot on uneven terrain, which makes it a lot more realistic then perfect shooting conditions.

As far as hunting goes, you can get into birds on local WMA spots, BLM just outside of town or generally any public land. It is not hard to find birds outside of Boise.

Other then that, just get out with your dogs. The two of you will learn together. I never went to the local NAVDHA chapter or the local Chukar Society, but I am sure both of those would be good places to meet people.
Do I need a training license to train dogs with bumpers or dummies? Retrievers will eventually need a suitable body of water for water blind/mark training. They like water for cooling down in hot weather anyway. My black Lab male almost died years ago from a heat stroke. I was playing frisbee with him on a school ground during a summer afternoon without giving him rest in between throws. He was catching the throws like mad then collapsed for a while. I got him home as soon as possible and he came through well again fortunately. I read that Labs are highly heat sensitive. Don't know how well Goldens take the heat. After that heat collapse, I would only take my Labs to the river on hot days for a swim or out on the lake in my boat and do frisbee work in cool weather only. During the hot dove season I would only hunt early in the morning with dogs out of respect for their well-being. Plenty of water would be at the stand.
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by cjhills » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:19 pm

It is not all that expensive to hunt upland birds. It also takes very little training to train a serviceable flushing dog. Almost any hunting breed and a lot of working dogs will do great. Goldens from working bloodlines do great. My son has two that are excellent upland dogs. All they really were trained to do was stay within gun range or at least close enough so we can get there when they get birdy. They were not expensive puppies. The sire was a bomb locating dog. Goldens are relatively cheap if you don't go with the FC bloodlines, which you don't need for a upland dog. All he has to do is run around in front, find a bird, flush it and run and get it when you shoot it. If you have two, they should stop or sit on the flush and be sent to retrieve, so you don't get a two part bird. they should also retrieve to hand so the bird don't run away when they drop it. A little obedience training and maybe a force or conditioned retrieve and you are good to go. You probably don't really need two dogs, they do fine spending the day alone but if that is what you prefer it should not be a problem you will need to spend time with them separately though. They will likely bond more with each other than you if you don't separate them somewhat.
The same goes for a shotgun you do not need to spend a fortune. You can buy a very serviceable used shotgun for under a grand, in fact way under. You might need a little training at the local gun range, but wing shooting fairly well is quite simple and if you miss a few birds who cares. You can only shoot two or three pheasants so you get to hunt longer if you miss. Having an expensive gun may help your shooting a little but not much. You can always upgrade when you feel they need. Shoot a lot of skeet and sporting clays at the gun range and some shooting preserve birds. It will help but you will still need practice on wild birds.
For a couple grand or less you can be hunting upland birds where you live on thousands of acres of public land. If you don't like it you will have some nice companion dogs and a cheap shotgun for sale. If you do you will probably have to upgrade the shotgun and likely go to a pointing dog or two so you don't have keep up with the dog.
Good luck. enjoy the ride. It is not that hard and it is all fun. You don't have to start at the top...……………….Cj

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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by Warrior372 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:31 pm

No. I should have been more specific. You only need that license if you want to shoot the farmed game birds over your dogs out of season. You can train your dog with farmed birds and no gun without that license any time of year. There are a lot of great books that you can find the titles of online or in this forum that will answer a lot of the basic questions you are asking as well. A quick search will get you the titles of some good resources to better your knowledge.

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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by fishvik » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:40 am

You have plenty of places to train near Boise. East of town at Blacks Creek Resv. or Indian Creek Resv. if it has water. BLM land south of town and Lucky Peak Resv or Arrowrock Resv.

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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by averageguy » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:12 am

Jon,

Don't know if you followed the ID F&G link I posted but there are Outdoor Skills Classes offered with a link on that page as well.

Hanging out at a NAVHDA training day or test would be very educational, an opportunity to meet folks passionate about training and hunting their dogs, and observe various breeds of dogs at various stages of training doing a variety of GunDog subjects.

Listening, observing, asking sincere questions and withholding uninformed opinions until well down the road when they become informed ones will be the approach most likely to yield assistance from those with much to teach and a willingness to do so.

You have done a good bit of wandering in your online comments around breeds of dogs that interest you over a very short period of time. Which is fine, but it strongly suggests that you would greatly benefit from getting out and observing various breeds of dogs performing differing gundog subjects so that you can make a more informed decision in that area. The majority of folks are somewhat zealous in recommending their chosen breed of dog, many times with little knowledge/experience with other breeds. Much fewer are able to bring some balance to the decision. I am of the opinion that a flushing and retrieving dog is easier to train with less equipment needs than are pointing dogs, so that might be the right path for you to be on. Without shopping your options with actual observations you will never know is the point I am encouraging you to explore before landing.

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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by fishvik » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:50 am

fishvik wrote:Listening, observing, asking sincere questions and withholding uninformed opinions until well down the road when they become informed ones will be the approach most likely to yield assistance from those with much to teach and a willingness to do so.
As a transplant to Idaho (almost 50 years ago) I can tell you this is very sound advice.

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Re: Hello, from Boise, ID!

Post by oldbeek » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:09 pm

Look up NAVHDA. they have local chapters. Lots of people wanting to help newcomers. Mostly how to train your dog but their maybe some folks that would teach you the ropes.

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