Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

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JonBailey
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Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by JonBailey » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:42 am

This comes from Charley "bleep"'s book, Dove Hunting, from 1975.

ISBN-10: 0883653362

Having a well-trained dog won't let you get side-tracked or worried about recovering downed birds so you can concentrate and be a better shooter.
One of Charley's laws: no matter where a shot dove falls, it will be hard to find. You can even drop a bird on a billiard table and still lose it.
The dog's nose will find the dead/crippled bird in virtually any cover that a dog can possibly navigate. Even the sharpest of human eyes can pass over a bird lying
on bare soil since doves camouflage so well on the ground.

About 30% of all shot doves in America are lost and never recovered: this translates into millions of wasted birds yearly.

A good retriever can find a downed or crippled dove up to a quarter mile away.

Labrador and golden retrievers make the top two dove breeds but any breed or mongrel will do if it can be trained to retrieve doves.
The author prefers sporting breeds to recover doves but claims the best dove collector to date he has seen was a German shepherd in Texas
and has also commended collies and mongrels for doing a good job of sweeping the field up of these birds.

Labradors, German shepherds and Goldens are America's top three dog breeds in popularity as it stands now.

The Labrador can suck up downed doves in a field like a Hoover vacuum cleaner according to Mr. "bleep", the author.

According to Charley: field trials are not conducted for dogs to retrieve doves and wild pigeons and there are no {breed} standards in regards to doves.

Never shoot doves over an area where it would be impractical for both dog and man to try to recover from: swamps and desert areas heavy with cactus for two examples.

A dog that can "hunt dead" is a must.

Dogs may not like the smell of doves and pigeons and the taste of them in their mouths and that's where force-break training comes in.
Even if the dog is not happy about soft dove down in his mouth this is no excuse to balk at retrieving. Mr. "bleep" does not like paying for
"Rover's" room and board all spring and summer long for him to loaf or dilly-dally in the dove field on September 1.

Always have cool, fresh water for dogs in the field not only to quench their thirst but to cleanse soft dove feather out of their mouths.

Make sure the dog is trained to steady on the line and retrieves promptly and directly only when cast. Mr. "bleep" states in his book that he is not convinced
that a retriever's running around wild in the field spooks doves but hunters at stands nearby may think differently and fault their empty game bags on your
"unruly" dog. Having an unruly dog can cause you to lose your welcome on future dove shoots. Mr. "bleep" explains how to use a choke collar in force-break (force-fetch) training as there were no e-collars in 1975. The only time I recall hearing "nick" in 1975 was Santa Claus's name following "Saint".

Suffice it to say, the canine dove collector must mark falls well, have a keen enough nose to locate downed birds, be willing to retrieve them and wants to work.
Dove hunting is much like duck hunting as it most often involves work from a fixed position, sometimes made into a blind and camouflaged, and often involves decoys as well unless you are jump-shooting for ducks. Mr. "bleep" states in his book that jump-shooting technique is also used for doves on occasion. It is then not surprising that Labrador retrievers and Goldens are commonly seen on dove fields as they are commonly seen at duck blinds. Your duck dog is often your dove dog.

If you shoot doves near a watering hole and a bird falls in the drink, do you want to swim after it yourself?

Basic obedience training is essential for the working dove dog. With voice commands, hand signals and whistles you can move
your retriever around the field at 300+ yards like working border collies, the author states.

A dog always makes the hunt more memorable and endearing.

The dog can be used to flush doves in a large field that are landing out of shotgun range to feed. The dog is sent out to get them up
on the wing and circling and he promptly returns to the handler. This process is repeated if doves are stubborn about getting into the
range of your choke.

Nowadays, MOJO decoys might also help pull doves into your gun. Mr. "bleep" mentions dove decoys but they were the non-fancy
non-motorized kind back in the 1970's. "MOJO" is what you once might have told the waitress when you wanted a warm-up on coffee.

In short, using retrievers in the dove field makes for sound wildlife conservation practice.
Last edited by JonBailey on Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

JONOV
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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by JONOV » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:09 am

They definitely help. Last year my dog and I walked all around helping other guys pick up doves while my wife shot the doves for me, (its ok, she's a better shot, and i'm no less a man for it :D ) He was pretty green but it didn't matter. Just having one that will find them is nice.

And trust the dog. My partner and I were hunting and dropped one and I kept hacking him to where I was certain the bird went. He didn't find it and we moved and he dove into the brush where he originally wanted to look and popped out with it. "trust the hunter with the longest nose."

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JonBailey
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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by JonBailey » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:42 pm

JONOV wrote:They definitely help. Last year my dog and I walked all around helping other guys pick up doves while my wife shot the doves for me, (its ok, she's a better shot, and i'm no less a man for it :D ) He was pretty green but it didn't matter. Just having one that will find them is nice.

And trust the dog. My partner and I were hunting and dropped one and I kept hacking him to where I was certain the bird went. He didn't find it and we moved and he dove into the brush where he originally wanted to look and popped out with it. "trust the hunter with the longest nose."
Mr. "bleep" states in his book that some guys enjoy working their dogs more than actually shooting the birds.

Now is this legal?

Let's say a hunting partner and I go to a dove stand. He only works the gun and I only work my retriever for the whole shoot. Let's say he bags a limit of doves for himself then he also bags my limit as well but still with his gun. Could either one of us get in trouble with the game warden? It's still 15 doves per hunter when divided even. He might stick his birds in his cooler and I might stick my 15 in my own cooler.

We are talking about mourning doves and in Idaho the daily bag for this coming September is 15.
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by cjhills » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:50 pm

All the states I have hunted, it is illegal to party hunt birds. When you shoot your limit you should be done. Sometimes pretty hard to tell who shot each bird though......Cj

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JonBailey
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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by JonBailey » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:16 am

cjhills wrote:All the states I have hunted, it is illegal to party hunt birds. When you shoot your limit you should be done. Sometimes pretty hard to tell who shot each bird though......Cj
I guess then I will have to shoot and handle the dog as well. I love dogs but want some tender dove poppers to pop in my mouth too you know!

I don't want my hunting buddy or my dog to put doves in their respective mouths while I go hungry!
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by fishvik » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:39 am

Doves are small and very fine feathered that are shed easily when a dog picks them up. You normally hunt dove's when it is warm, in Idaho a cold front sends them south. This makes picking up a dove by a dog a mouth filling with small feathers experience. Add this to panting and dogs may not want to pick them up after one or two even with force fetching. If you can get some pigeons or ring neck dove before the season opens, work your dog on them to get them used to that mouthful of feathers.

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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by averageguy » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:02 am

JonBailey wrote: I guess then I will have to shoot and handle the dog as well. I love dogs but want some tender dove poppers to pop in my mouth too you know!

I don't want my hunting buddy or my dog to put doves in their respective mouths while I go hungry!
Much depends on whatever puppy you end up with and how you have done in preparing it for its firsts hunts.

I am always ready to forego shooting on a pup's first hunt in favor of concentrating on making it a good introductory experience, while letting my Brother do the gunning. It always ends up that the combination of starting with excellent genetics and having done much exposure preparation work with my puppies prior to their first hunts, that I have been able to get some shooting in as well. But I always start out just handling my puppy and my shooting involvement does not commence until it becomes apparent the puppy is doing well with its duties. We take turns shooting when hunting doves as I do not want a barrage of gunfire and multiple falling birds on a pup's first hunts.

My GWPs have been retrieving fools and so the dove feathers have not bothered them, but fishvik is right on in his warning it can be a problem with many dogs, especially in their first exposure. Do not get frustrated and take it out on a young dog, in its first hunting experiences. FF can address any problems you encounter under controlled conditions rather than while hunting in the field with a young dog. Access to a nearby pond and or carrying plenty of water is critical when hunting doves with a dog. Hunting a waterhole is a great place to start a puppy which has been properly introduced to birds, gunfire, retrieving on land and water. Keeps them cool and mine have all loved it when the birds fall into the pond.

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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by JONOV » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:10 am

averageguy wrote:
JonBailey wrote: I guess then I will have to shoot and handle the dog as well. I love dogs but want some tender dove poppers to pop in my mouth too you know!

I don't want my hunting buddy or my dog to put doves in their respective mouths while I go hungry!
Much depends on whatever puppy you end up with and how you have done in preparing it for its firsts hunts.

I am always ready to forego shooting on a pup's first hunt in favor of concentrating on making it a good introductory experience, while letting my Brother do the gunning. It always ends up that the combination of starting with excellent genetics and having done much exposure preparation work with my puppies prior to their first hunts, that I have been able to get some shooting in as well. But I always start out just handling my puppy and my shooting involvement does not commence until it becomes apparent the puppy is doing well with its duties. We take turns shooting when hunting doves as I do not want a barrage of gunfire and multiple falling birds on a pup's first hunts.

My GWPs have been retrieving fools and so the dove feathers have not bothered them, but fishvik is right on in his warning it can be a problem with many dogs, especially in their first exposure. Do not get frustrated and take it out on a young dog, in its first hunting experiences. FF can address any problems you encounter under controlled conditions rather than while hunting in the field with a young dog. Access to a nearby pond and or carrying plenty of water is critical when hunting doves with a dog. Hunting a waterhole is a great place to start a puppy which has been properly introduced to birds, gunfire, retrieving on land and water. Keeps them cool and mine have all loved it when the birds fall into the pond.
Mine never hesitated to go get it, even before FF, but I could tell he wasn't a fan of the feathers, would spit them out when he got close rather than try and hold on to it.

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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by averageguy » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:23 am

JONOV wrote:
Mine never hesitated to go get it, even before FF, but I could tell he wasn't a fan of the feathers, would spit them out when he got close rather than try and hold on to it.
Yes very common with many puppies hunting doves early on in their careers. Some dogs never get over dove feathers. My puppies have all handled a good number of pointed, launched, shot and retrieved pigeons before their first dove hunts but nothing sheds off feathers like a dove so spitting them out until trained otherwise is common.

I have hunted all my puppies on Sept 1st opening day of dove seasons and some of them have been as young as 5 months. At that age they will often play a little keep away with the bird when they get close on the return trip with the bird and they do not want to give up their prize. I let em drag a light homemade check cord, calmly get my foot on it, praise and pet the puppy profusely, gently take the bird away, and then setup to shoot the next one.

For the benefit of Jon's future dog, expect to use patience and common sense when hunting a puppy through its first season and particularly on its first hunts. If all is perfect at the outset wonderful, but it seldom if ever is.

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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by Timewise65 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:57 am

All of my Golden Retrievers over the years have been introduced to dove's and dove hunting first. When pups I would bring home birds after a hunt and let them get a nose full around the yard. Nothing more than a smell and maybe allow them to pick up the bird and run with it a bit. Never more than that and never allow them to sit and chew...


Later after full FF, Obedience, Hunt testing to a JR level....I take them with me on dove hunts. By then they are good markers and have learned to go into cover to recover a downed bird with their noses....they all love this hunting and the feathers and heat are troublesome for all, we still go every season and get our hunting season started.

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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by averageguy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:44 am

M
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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by mnaj_springer » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:12 am

cjhills wrote:All the states I have hunted, it is illegal to party hunt birds. When you shoot your limit you should be done. Sometimes pretty hard to tell who shot each bird though......Cj
WHAT?!? You live in Minnesota where it is legal to party hunt small game! The exception to that is migratory birds, but you can party hunt grouse and pheasant here legally.
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Re: Use a retrieving dog for conservation on dove shoots.

Post by averageguy » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:04 pm

I think a guy should do his own research as to what is legal and what is not. In the 3 states I hunted doves in last year it is illegal to party hunt for doves in all. I know a guy who got a ticket in AR when he picked up a dove that fell near him that a buddy hunting nearby shot down. The guy who picked it up for his buddy was limited out, the Warden claimed picking it up reduced it to his possession. The guy was pissed, the Warden didn't care...

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