What are y'all using for nontoxic shot?
I typically shoot a 20 gauge over pointing dogs on both wild pheasants and California quail. Mostly on public land that requires nontox. Some areas are 90% pheasants, some 90% quail. For 90% pheasant areas I shoot steel #2 to #4. Quail I shoot #6 steel. I have used #6 steel on pheasants successfully by shooting quick but would like something with more oomph. In those 50:50 areas I feel like I always have the wrong ammo in the gun on a lot of the points I walk into, or even worse I can tell it is a pheasant and am trying to switch ammo when the bird flushes. Historically I have used #6 lead for this situation, and did not worry if I had the right ammo in. Has anybody tried #5 steel in this application? I know it will take a close pheasant, but will it destroy quail?
Steel shot for uplands
Re: Steel shot for uplands
I use #6 steel or bismuth.
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HerringBone
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Re: Steel shot for uplands
I live in CA and also hunt wild quail on public land. The only pheasant I've had the opportunity to hunt are pen-raised, so 2.75in #4 steel is what I generally use, but I understand wild is a bit different. For quail dominated areas, my favorite load is a 3" #7 shot hammer dove load. If you want the best compromise to be prepared for either pheasant or quail, I would go with bismuth #6s. I know the price hurts compared to steel, but from a performance perspective, I think that would be the best compromise. If you want to stick with steel, I would go with 3" #5s. I haven't used them on quail. I'd be a bit more worried about never hitting quail due to pattern density than I would be about destroying a bird, but that's in part because I'm never hitting a quail a super close range, and overkill would still be a concern.
Related side bar: I have done a decent amount of research on smaller shot non-toxic loads for upland hunting. Steel shot has gotten a lot better in the loads typically used for waterfowl because that represents almost its entire use case. Steel loads in small shot is a newer concept and not widely used yet so I think less is known about it. My understanding is that the velocity of shot at range diminishes in a non-linear fashion, and that velocity drop off is MUCH more dramatic for the smaller steel shot. I'm convinced that most people don't truly appreciate how dramatic this is. The velocity of #7 shot essentially falls off a cliff at a certain range, which means you might have penetration at 33 yards, but not 36 yards. That's why for wild quail I am looking for high initial velocities and pattern density. I'm also considering switching to bismuth, particularly for the mixed bag scenarios like you are describing.
Related side bar: I have done a decent amount of research on smaller shot non-toxic loads for upland hunting. Steel shot has gotten a lot better in the loads typically used for waterfowl because that represents almost its entire use case. Steel loads in small shot is a newer concept and not widely used yet so I think less is known about it. My understanding is that the velocity of shot at range diminishes in a non-linear fashion, and that velocity drop off is MUCH more dramatic for the smaller steel shot. I'm convinced that most people don't truly appreciate how dramatic this is. The velocity of #7 shot essentially falls off a cliff at a certain range, which means you might have penetration at 33 yards, but not 36 yards. That's why for wild quail I am looking for high initial velocities and pattern density. I'm also considering switching to bismuth, particularly for the mixed bag scenarios like you are describing.
Re: Steel shot for uplands
Thank you for the replies.
I do shoot some bismuth, and it is what I tend to drop in my gun in the scenario where there is a 50% chance of either species. I have had good luck with the Boss loads, and while more expensive than steel it does not truly cost that much by comparison to gas, dogs, gps, guns, dog food, etc. When hunting a 90% pheasant, 10 % quail area, I use bismuth #4, or a 12 ga with #2 or #3 steel, and just pass on the quail.
I have used steel #7 for quail here. They work well when the quail behave. However when your dog is on point, and the quail jump without holding and you take a shot at 30ish+ yards it seems like I am as likely to see a poof of feathers as a bird drop with #7. For the 3 weeks before pheasant opens I use steel #6 and it seems to work well on quail that I shoot at, and well enough on roosters that hold and you are hitting within 20 yards.
It is really the 90% quail and 10% chance of pheasant scenario that I am looking for a better option. That is the majority of the areas that I hunt, and I do not particularly want to spend the extra $20 on ammo for the off chance that I get into a pheasant.
You are correct about the slowing of shot being non-linear. This is both with respect to velocity and the diameter of the pellet. Wind resistance is dependent on the square of velocity. The volume, and therefor mass of a sphere of a given density is dependent on the cube of the radius.
I suppose I will buy a box of #5 steel and see how it does.
I do shoot some bismuth, and it is what I tend to drop in my gun in the scenario where there is a 50% chance of either species. I have had good luck with the Boss loads, and while more expensive than steel it does not truly cost that much by comparison to gas, dogs, gps, guns, dog food, etc. When hunting a 90% pheasant, 10 % quail area, I use bismuth #4, or a 12 ga with #2 or #3 steel, and just pass on the quail.
I have used steel #7 for quail here. They work well when the quail behave. However when your dog is on point, and the quail jump without holding and you take a shot at 30ish+ yards it seems like I am as likely to see a poof of feathers as a bird drop with #7. For the 3 weeks before pheasant opens I use steel #6 and it seems to work well on quail that I shoot at, and well enough on roosters that hold and you are hitting within 20 yards.
It is really the 90% quail and 10% chance of pheasant scenario that I am looking for a better option. That is the majority of the areas that I hunt, and I do not particularly want to spend the extra $20 on ammo for the off chance that I get into a pheasant.
You are correct about the slowing of shot being non-linear. This is both with respect to velocity and the diameter of the pellet. Wind resistance is dependent on the square of velocity. The volume, and therefor mass of a sphere of a given density is dependent on the cube of the radius.
I suppose I will buy a box of #5 steel and see how it does.