3" for pheasant? which one of these....

[luke0927]

Well i was looking at some steel shot today.....i can get either of these for a decent price...1 is the Remington nitro steel but its 3" but 1500 FPS 1 1/8 shot #4 steel, or Winchester
2 3/4" 1400 FPS #4....which of those 2 would you pick i like the hi velocity and for steel i would think it would put the hurt on them. Would the 3" be too much and tear them up to bad? Ive only shot quail so pheasant loads are something new for me.

[romeo212000]

Go with the 2 3/4" shells just for the sake of pattern. In all honesty what you gain in amount of shot will be lost in pattern or more. I guarantee your pattern will string out and have flyers if you use the 3" shell. I assume you can only use nontoxic shot where you will be hunting so if you choose to use steel remember it is very easy to over choke steel shot. You might use Modified with lead but If your using steel I wouldnt go tighter than Improved. I might also recommend you look at some non toxic heavy metal loads. They are more expensive than steel but you will have far more clean kills and less cripples. I had a hard time making the switch at first for ducks and and geese, but after actually doing it and seeing the results I won't go back. It ends up costing me about the same because I dont have to chase down and shoot cripples. Then you can go with a smaller shot size like 6's and throw a slightly smaller load and get bettern patterns.

[tfbirddog2]

How big are the pheasants your hunting to need 3" shells? Dude 2"3/4 71/2s early season switch to 6 then to 5 or 4s if you think the later the season runs.No need for rihno rollers unless you dnit want to eat.

[luke0927]

When i shoot i shot to kill! thought 3" were to big also but i read that a lot of people were using them in the steel shot.

[romeo212000]

Some do use 3" when shooting steel because steel is not as dense as lead so they want to throw more shot. Same reason some find it necessary to duck hunt with 3 1/2" shells. Fact is, bcause of the pattern those longer shells throw you are wasting shot because it does not fly with the pattern. Look at the some of the non toxic heavy metal loads.

[muddycreek]

A different take is to look at some of the alternative non-tox shells-Hevi-Shot, Kent Tungsten-Matrix, Bismuth, etc... I know they are expensive but in my experience I kill more cleanly with one shot than steel. These shells also allow one to drop down in shot size in a 2 3/4 shell and get a great pattern. I primarily use a 2 3/4 Hevi-shot in #6 all year. A rough equiliveant would be lead 4's but a better pattern. This does get a little spendy, but when I compare it to the gas, training, guns, misc... it is just part of the gig. I can also take advantage of that stray mallard or goose offering me a shot when I's bird hunting.

[Chaingang]

Luke, didn't you already start a thread on this subject?

If the amount of money you want to spend on non toxic shot is important to you, simply find the best deal on steel shot that you can find and go with it. They will work just fine on Phez. Someone mentioned patterning. No matter what someone recommends as their favorite load, your gun/load/choke combination may pattern completely different. So if you really want to know then your going to have to pattern it.

When selecting the proper steel load as compared to lead you need to use the "two shot size larger" rule of thumb to get comparable downrange energy as lead at any given distance.

Example: If you normally would shoot #5 lead at Pheasants, than #3 steel will give the approx same downrange energy at any given range. If you shoot #6 lead, than select #4 steel etc.. As far as load size you need to balance that out depending on the bird your hunting and shot size you are selecting. Personally I have used Steel quite a bit here in my home state of MN as we have numerous WPA's (Waterfowl Production Areas) that I frequent that contain good phez habitat. As a rule of thumb I would choose a load size of no smaller than 1-1/8 oz of #3 steel shot in 12ga. This will give very similar results as #5 lead. IMO it is a good all around choice for big prairie phez. 3" or 2-3/4" it makes no difference, just stay in the 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 oz load size and you can't go wrong. As far as Brand, which ever is cheapest will work. Remember your hunting Phez and your shots are most likely going to be under 40 yards and closer to 20, so it's not as critical as it is with waterfowl.

[romeo212000]

Luke, didn't you already start a thread on this subject?

If the amount of money you want to spend on non toxic shot is important to you, simply find the best deal on steel shot that you can find and go with it. They will work just fine on Phez. Someone mentioned patterning. No matter what someone recommends as their favorite load, your gun/load/choke combination may pattern completely different. So if you really want to know then your going to have to pattern it.

When selecting the proper steel load as compared to lead you need to use the "two shot size larger" rule of thumb to get comparable downrange energy as lead at any given distance.

Example: If you normally would shoot #5 lead at Pheasants, than #3 steel will give the approx same downrange energy at any given range. If you shoot #6 lead, than select #4 steel etc.. As far as load size you need to balance that out depending on the bird your hunting and shot size you are selecting. Personally I have used Steel quite a bit here in my home state of MN as we have numerous WPA's (Waterfowl Production Areas) that I frequent that contain good phez habitat. As a rule of thumb I would choose a load size of no smaller than 1-1/8 oz of #3 steel shot in 12ga. This will give very similar results as #5 lead. IMO it is a good all around choice for big prairie phez. 3" or 2-3/4" it makes no difference, just stay in the 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 oz load size and you can't go wrong. As far as Brand, which ever is cheapest will work. Remember your hunting Phez and your shots are most likely going to be under 40 yards and closer to 20, so it's not as critical as it is with waterfowl.

Actually it does make a difference whether you go with 3" or 2 3/4. It makes a difference with pattern. I am telling you that a 3" 1 1/4 load will throw a pattern a worse pattern with flyers and strung out shot than a 2 3/4" shell with 1 1/8 will. It is simple physics. Yes you want to pattern the load you are using with your gun. I can tell you it is very easy to over choke steel. It is likely that Modified would be too tight. Now if you choose to use a 3" shell and pattern it you may decide the pattern looks pretty good on a patterning board. However, a patterning board does not show all dimensions of the pattern. It only shows a 2 dimensional view. What it will not show is how far your pattern is strung out and how much is wasted because of this. For pheasant I recommend you go with a 2 3/4" shell whatver you use because you are shooting on the wing and want the best pattern. People can get away with a 3" or 3 1/2" shell (which in my opinion is just overkill) while duck hunting because the majority of shots are not on the wing but fairly stationary shots on landing ducks, The 2 sizes bigger rule is good with steel because it does not carry the energy that lead does. However I promise if you go with steel you need to really limit your shooting distance. You cannot take shots as far with steel as you would with lead. I strongly recommend you give the heavy metal nontoxic loads a look. You will kill more birds cleaner (provided you are making good hits) with them and I have found it ultimately costs me the same in the end.

[Chaingang]

Actually it does make a difference whether you go with 3" or 2 3/4. It makes a difference with pattern. I am telling you that a 3" 1 1/4 load will throw a pattern a worse pattern with flyers and strung out shot than a 2 3/4" shell with 1 1/8 will. It is simple physics. Yes you want to pattern the load you are using with your gun. I can tell you it is very easy to over choke steel. It is likely that Modified would be too tight. Now if you choose to use a 3" shell and pattern it you may decide the pattern looks pretty good on a patterning board. However, a patterning board does not show all dimensions of the pattern. It only shows a 2 dimensional view. What it will not show is how far your pattern is strung out and how much is wasted cause of this. For pheasant I recommend you go with a 2 3/4" shell whatver you use because you are shooting on the wing and want the best pattern. People can get away with a 3" or 3 1/2" shell (which in my opinion is just overkill) while duck hunting because the majority of shots are not on the wing but fairly stationary shots on landing ducks, The 2 sizes bigger rule is good with steel because it does not carry the energy that lead does. However I promise if you go with steel you need to really limit your shooting distance. You cannot take shots as far with steel as you would with lead. I strongly recommend you give the heavy metal nontoxic loads a look. You will kill more birds cleaner (provided you are making good hits) with them and I have found it ultimately costs me the same in the end.

Romeo, I think were getting a little technical here, something the average hunter probably could care less. First of all, unless you have access to a camera with the ability of extremely high speed photography, measuring shot string is very difficult proposition. What the average guy cares about more than physics are results. And I know what your going to say "the hevi shot produces better results", and I would agree if all shots were at the edges of shotgun range, but phez are normally taken at ranges where steel will still produce excellent results as well. While physics may prove shorter shot strings with 2 3/4" vs 3" loads, there is a time and a place for 3 inch ammo. Case in point, when using larger shot and you need to put a higher number of pellets on the target at distance. Lets face it a load of BBB's in 2 3/4" shell will not yield many pellets when shooting game at the fringes of shotgun ranges. And if your like me and have hunted waterfowl long enough to know that NOT ALL birds are taken landing happily in front of the deeks.

I strongly recommend you give the heavy metal nontoxic loads a look. You will kill more birds cleaner (provided you are making good hits) with them and I have found it ultimately costs me the same in the end.

Overall, I think what this all boils down to is what your willing to pay. Nothing wrong with the expensive stuff if that suites you, just that there are cheaper alternatives that can still produce great results. I've shot enough phez with steel to know that it works fine if you do your part and have picked the proper load. This and being smart enough to know that wild long shots are low percentage killers at best, using lead or non-tox.

IMO, the extra money might be better spent with more trips to the gun club to improve one's skills. That might just be the best way to reduce crippling losses, but that's just me,

FWIW

[muddycreek]

IMO, the extra money might be better spent with more trips to the gun club to improve one's skills. That might just be the best way to reduce crippling losses, but that's just me,

The best advise I have seen yet. I wish I followed it more.

[prairiefirepointers]

RHINO ROLLERS! LMAO

[A/C Guy]

because steel is less dense than lead, you already get more steel pellets in any given size 1oz load as compared to the same size lead pellets in a 1 oz load. Generally, when you go from #6 lead to #4 steel, you get almost the same number of pellets per ounce. But there will be fewer fliers, so you get more steel pellets in the critical kill zone of the pattern. Remember to never go tighter than modified with steel. When the post above mentioned Improved, he meant Improved Cylinder, not Improved Modified; many first time steel shooters make the mistake of over choking their guns. Skeet and Improved Cylinder are my choices in an O/U when shooting steel. Patterning your gun is the best way to be sure.

For more detailed info, go here http://books.google.com/books?id=j_Cq-D ... 1-PA137,M1

Then scroll to page 137 for the pellets per ounce charts.

[luke0927]

Luke, didn't you already start a thread on this subject?

If the amount of money you want to spend on non toxic shot is important to you, simply find the best deal on steel shot that you can find and go with it. They will work just fine on Phez. Someone mentioned patterning. No matter what someone recommends as their favorite load, your gun/load/choke combination may pattern completely different. So if you really want to know then your going to have to pattern it.

When selecting the proper steel load as compared to lead you need to use the "two shot size larger" rule of thumb to get comparable downrange energy as lead at any given distance.

Example: If you normally would shoot #5 lead at Pheasants, than #3 steel will give the approx same downrange energy at any given range. If you shoot #6 lead, than select #4 steel etc.. As far as load size you need to balance that out depending on the bird your hunting and shot size you are selecting. Personally I have used Steel quite a bit here in my home state of MN as we have numerous WPA's (Waterfowl Production Areas) that I frequent that contain good phez habitat. As a rule of thumb I would choose a load size of no smaller than 1-1/8 oz of #3 steel shot in 12ga. This will give very similar results as #5 lead. IMO it is a good all around choice for big prairie phez. 3" or 2-3/4" it makes no difference, just stay in the 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 oz load size and you can't go wrong. As far as Brand, which ever is cheapest will work. Remember your hunting Phez and your shots are most likely going to be under 40 yards and closer to 20, so it's not as critical as it is with waterfowl.

the other thread was recommendations for shot shell's....I went and looked at what i could get close by was just asking for a comparision of these two and which one people would shoot if it was them....I'll probably get a little bit of the hevi shot but I'll mainly shoot steel....i will look at the patter of hte 2 3/4 steel...going 1400+ fps i would say it would hit hard even for being steel.

[Greg Jennings]

Agree with a lot of what is said, but can't resist discussing the "simple physics" about shot string. Now, I'm not a Physicist, I only have a minor in it and that was 20 years ago. So, I might be missing something. I'd like you to check my calculations....

A "good" shot string might be 4 feet. A really "bad" shot string might be 12 feet.

For the sake of grins, let's say that the shot has slowed from 1,300-1,500 feet/second at the muzzle to 700 fps at the pheasant 35 yards down range. I don't know that that's a good number. It might be off.

For grins, let's say that the pheasant is going 60 mph which is approximately 88 fps. That's really hauling and I don't think a pheasant will normally get along that fast...more like half that. Further that the pheasant's flight path is at 90 degrees to the shot string when it arrives. That's the worst case.

Now, at 700 fps, that good 4' shot string takes 4/700 to completely pass the bird. The bird moves about 6" in that time.

Same everything, the really bad shot string takes 12/700 to completely pass the bird. I.e., it's 3 times as long or the bird has moved 18". Now, that pattern should be 40" or so wide at that range.

OK, that's the physics.

[Gordon Guy]

I'm not much of a pheasant hunter, I prefer other birds. But when I do / did go after them my choice was RST Shells, 12 gauge, low recoil low velocity, 2 3/4", 1 oz, 6's . If I did my part, they did there's. Especially shooting over a pointing dog. 3" heavy loads not required.

[gar-dog]

How big are the pheasants your hunting to need 3" shells? Dude 2"3/4 71/2s early season switch to 6 then to 5 or 4s if you think the later the season runs.No need for rihno rollers unless you dnit want to eat.

I would generally agree with this except for starting with 7-1/2. For crossing shots that would be fine, but for rear-end going away shots I think you run the risk of not getting good penetration IMO.

[Greg Jennings]

The 3" question was in the context of steel shot and neither specified pointing dogs vs flushing situation or early season vs late.

I've had such inconsistent results with steel that I'd do just about anything.