Drop ducks like rain!!! Really?

[labman21]

I have been interested in the Federal Premium Black Cloud Shot shells. They seem like they work really well and they have certainly been advertised alot. My question is to the people who have experienced this phenomenon we call black cloud.

Is it really worth over $20 a box?

[Greg Jennings]

What they're worth is an individual perception. I've shot several ducks and pheasants with them. I didn't think they were as good as Hevi Shot, but I liked them better than normal steel.

Hevi Shot is EX-PENSIVE! But, you should see a load of #4 buck shot CRUSH a coyote at 75 or so yards.

Greg J.

[Chaingang]

I used some Black Cloud in 1oz #3's this year for Phez and they did a pretty good job. I wouldn't say any better than my favorite lead load, but certainly adequate for steel.

[Kyle Wintersteen]

Steel is still steel any way you slice it, but I like Black Cloud. The flitecontrol wad has proven itself to me in pattern-board tests and the shot performed well in gelatin. I've shot a lot of ducks with Black Cloud, usually No. 4s but also a few with the new No. 3s. Non-toxic loads and obviously lead are still better, but it's a good shell for the money.

[highcotton]

I have noticed that steel patterns tighter than lead from my guns. How does hevi shot pattern compared to steel?

[Greg Jennings]

Hevi Shot patterns more like a nice copper-plated lead load.

You don't get any of that "I knocked all the feathers off that bird, why isn't he laying there dead?". With Hevi Shot, you hit them hard and they're DRT.

The problem is the $$. It ain't cheap.

Greg J.

[highcotton]

I hate steel shot. I just haven't tried hevi shot because of the cost. I think it's time to break down and pay the price.

[nj gsp]

The Kent Tungsten Matrix is heavier than hevi-shot, and costs less too.

[Kyle Wintersteen]

My buddy Jeff has a pretty good wrap up of the new non-toxic loads w/ density and hardness info on his blog here: http://www.americanhunter.org/BlogEntry ... 101&cid=46

We've mostly been talking shot densities, but check out some of the shells' numbers on the Diamond Pyramid Hardness scale. I think a lot of people don't realize that most non-toxic loads are as hard or harder than steel and shouldn't be used with a choke that isn't steel-safe. Some have started to address that. Hevi-Shot, for instance, makes a load called "Classic Doubles," which is safe for older, more fragile barrels.

[birddogsunlimited]

i used black cloud a couple sessons ago and it was great in warm weather but when the temp droped it wasent worth loading in the gun, just what i noticed i started using hand loads from http://www.sportingammo.com/in 2008 and have been verry happy with those compared to any thing i was buying at the store.

[fishvik]

Birddog. I've noticed as it get colder steel load also lose some of their power. I think that this is due to the slower burning powder that has to be used in steel shells because the shot doesn't compact. My solution has been to keep three shells in a breast pocket and keep switching out I like steel though and almost wish they would outlaw the heavier nontoxics for waterfowl hunting ( I can hear the ammo companies getting me in their sights right now). Steel, because of it's loss of effective ballistics at long ranges, was beginning to make us waterfowl shooters , instead of just waterfowl hunters. We have a marsh north of town that I have suggested they restrict ammo to 2 3/4 inch shells, steel only and no more than 20 shells on your person. I think it would definitely cut down on skybusting and loss of birds that are hit at altitude and then fall or sail deeper into the marsh with very little hope of retrieval.

[Kyle Wintersteen]

We have a marsh north of town that I have suggested they restrict ammo to 2 3/4 inch shells, steel only and no more than 20 shells on your person.

I appreciate your sentiment and I think you have good intentions; however, with all the barriers to entry and often confusing regs that already exist for waterfowlers, do you think that a draconian rule like that would be well advised?

[fishvik]

I appreciate your sentiment and I think you have good intentions; however, with all the barriers to entry and often confusing regs that already exist for waterfowlers, do you think that a draconian rule like that would be well advised?

Kyle, I guess if you figure that the reason for wildlife regulations basicallly fit into three categories, 1.safety, 2. conservation of populations, and 3. opportunity for a number of hunters, I guess I don't consider it that draconian. I've literally been in fear for myself or my dog being hit by falling shot due to some bozo 100 yds away shooting at ducks that he thinks he can he with a 3 1/2 load of heavy shot. I definitely think it would save waterfowl by lowering crippling rates and increasing retrieving rates. And it would definitely increase opportunity for the rest of us in the marsh who set decoys, call and then shoot birds that are in range (10-25 yds) that are easily retrieved by even a fair duck dog if they weren't being spooked by that same bozo skybusting. So I guess I don't think it would be that drastic a rule. But I think enforcement might be a nightmare.

[gotblika]

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtop ... 6&t=204610

[briarpatch]

Black Cloud works well ,
well worth the money

[Chaingang]

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtop ... 6&t=204610

WOW !! that's a little unnerving to say the least. I still have half a box left of the Black Cloud, I think you just gave me a complex...