New Gun question?

[APATZ_GSP]

I grew hunting with a Moss 500 which was my dads. And now that i have my own bird dog pup I think i should get my first shotgun. What i was wondering is what type of gun would y'all suggest. Here is what i want to do i mostly hunt upland birds and I would like to stay under $500 so if you could let me know what you think. I also would like to get and Over and under. what brands are preferred and should i just stick to a pump for what i have to spend. Thanks in advance.

[Iowa]

I grew hunting with a Moss 500 which was my dads. And now that i have my own bird dog pup I think i should get my first shotgun. What i was wondering is what type of gun would y'all suggest. Here is what i want to do i mostly hunt upland birds and I would like to stay under $500 so if you could let me know what you think. I also would like to get and Over and under. what brands are preferred and should i just stick to a pump for what i have to spend. Thanks in advance.

If you like that mossy take a look at their O/U. Depending on the sales it will be in your price range. I like mine, my only complaint is the but plate when I shoot sporting clays (100+ rounds) For some reason they put a plastic piece at the top and it catches me sometimes. I used to shoot a 500 then went to a Savage hump back full choke auto. Always did well with that. I like the option of having two chokes in the O/U I run a mod and a full. Rarely miss a shot.

[Vman]

Because of your budget stick with a pump. You can find the following new and used.
Remington 870 Express{new}
Remington 870 Wingmaster{used}
Ithaca 37 {used}
Benelli Nova {new and used}
Winchester 1300 {new or used}
Browning BPS {new or used}
Winchester model 12 {used}

There can be others, but these are the most common. If you are a lefty, then the Ithaca or the Browning BPS is the way to go.
But the most important part is make sure the gun you choose fits you correctly or the best.
Good Luck.

[APATZ_GSP]

Thanks for the info

[BigShooter]

You can find lots of pumps & semi-autos (new or used) in your price range. The O/Us at $500 or less are few & far between. Less expensive O/Us tend to be heavier & less smooth in operation. Remember to check for choke tubes as many older guns don't have them. If a used gun has a fixed choke go with modified or improved cylinder and stay away from a full fixed choke. Make certain you can shoot steel shotshells through the barrel, especially if you are ever going to shoot steel through the gun waterfowling or hunting on any federal or state waterfowl production areas.

[mcbosco]

Because of your budget stick with a pump. You can find the following new and used.
Remington 870 Express{new}
Remington 870 Wingmaster{used}
Ithaca 37 {used}
Benelli Nova {new and used}
Winchester 1300 {new or used}
Browning BPS {new or used}
Winchester model 12 {used}

There can be others, but these are the most common. If you are a lefty, then the Ithaca or the Browning BPS is the way to go.
But the most important part is make sure the gun you choose fits you correctly or the best.
Good Luck.

I am always looking for Ithaca 37's from the 1940's or before. Nice ones can be at little at $200 if you find a seller that just wants to get rid of it. However, if this is your first gun and don't mind a little kick and lack of refinement I would get a new Benelli Nova due to the robust construction of that gun. That should fit your budget I would think. You might not notice any kick at all or it might not bother you. That gun is made really well.

You might wanna call TR Imports in Texas. That guy imports Huglus (the same guns as CZ's) for quite a bit less than the CZ. I have a Huglu CZ and the action has held up well.

[birddog1968]

I have a win 1300 that's been thru heck and back.....like a timex.

The BPS Browning pump I use is a nice affordable high quality pump.

[tommyboy72]

Try Academy for a Yildiz if you can get to one. The O/U's start at $399.99 and are well worth the money. They work impeccably, lock up tight, have a nice fit and finish, good wood to metal fit, are super light, come with 5 choke tubes and tube wrench, they are made in Turkey and come with awesome Turkish walnut stocks and foregrips, and have a nice bluing that holds up well.

[Oldfarmer]

There are lots of used pump guns out there, many are 50 to 75 years old and still very good guns. I don't think that 50 years from now people will be talking about the good old O/U they bought in 2000 something for $500. Those Eastern European guns may shoot ok out of the box, and a few of them even look fairly good, but I'm betting they won't be something to hand down from Father to Son and so on like many of our older guns today. Most are, in my opinion, ugly, heavy and not something you'll be talking proudly about even 10 years from now. I've bought and sold several different ones of them so I have some practical experience with them. It's hard to beat todays Remington 870 for price and durability. The dull finish and plastic stock of some of them don't do much for their looks in my opinion, but even that can be quite practical. I'm not a Browning BPS fan because of how much they weigh, but if you don't mind toting them, they look and work good. I've never shot the Nova, but from what I hear it is great. However it's another plastic gun and not got that pretty to look at. Further advise would be to go to a gun shop where the people know guns and will let you handle and maybe even shoot a couple. At Walmart the lady behind the counter won't know a 20 gauge from a .30-06 and may not let you put the gun to your shoulder as that would be dangerous for the Grandma down the isle in the shoe dept.

[BigShooter]

At Walmart the lady behind the counter won't know a 20 gauge from a .30-06 and may not let you put the gun to your shoulder as that would be dangerous for the Grandma down the isle in the shoe dept.

In the Wlamarts I've been in you can't see the shoe dept. from the gun counter so the Grandma should be safe. It must be the old farmer in the hardware, paint & electrical isles they don't want to upset!

[birddog1968]

Remingtons are junk (IMO), Btw who's making them now (dupont, fischer price.....)???

Friend just bought his son an 870 while out on its first couple hunts the kid stands up in the boat to fire at some ducks and
and the ring that holds the barrel to the magazine tube broke and the barrel flies into the water leaving the kid standing there holding
a stock.....not to mention the barrel recalls they have had thru the years. I know of 3 that have breached the barrels over the years, 2 870's and 1 1100. no thanks on a remington.

Benelli Nova's - Yuk.

My Win pumps have been pretty problem free, even the salt marsh one I abuse to no end. I still have the moss 500 I started with
at 14 years old....20 ga and I use it very little anymore but I did take a deer with it last year. its never hiccup'd. And my 2 brownings
never a problem....a bps can be had used for 300 bucks, the other is a B-80 ( the predecessor to todays beretta 391's and the old 303's.

[Don]

870's are very good guns. Every maker has the flawed gun get out now and then. You hear about the 870's probably because so many have been sold! I had an 870 special field in 20 ga years ago. Had the choke reamed out to improved cylinder. Made a fine gun for shooting over pointing dogs. I also have a very old Ithica mod 37. My opinion it's the most under rated pump gun ever made! I would not trade it for a brand new Browning O/U.

You really need to look around at the guns you can afford and see what appeals to you. Threds like this tend to put out answer's base'd on experience with a limited use of type of actions. If the only gun I ever used was a Mossberg 500 and I never had a problem with it, that's all I could recommend. But if I had a problem with it or listened to the people that have never used one but base'd their opinion on price, I'd "bleep" it. BTW I've owned several and while inexpensive, they were reliable. If you do go get something on your own and you have a problem with it, it doesn't mean they are all like that. As I said, everyone puts out a bad gun now and then. I would avoid off brands though. If something does go wrong with it, you want to think it'll get fixed by the manufacturer easily. At this point I would stick to Remingtom, Winchester, Mossberg, Browning ect if I were you. From there you can form the only opinion that will count, your's.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

APATZ-GSP,
I just picked up a 16 Guage Model 12 Win for $525.00, and its in perfect shape, there are some good old guns out there if you are willing to wait
and shop around. This is the type of shotgun to pick up with the budget you want to stay in.

RGD/Dave

[birddogger]

I have a Remington Wingmaster in 20ga. It is around 40 years old now and is as dependable as when it was new. It is also a light weight and good looking gun. Used ones can probably be found in your price range. I use my CZ sxs now days but a ton of quail were taken with that Wingmaster with imp.cyl barrel. As some others have said, I would stay away from the cheap O/U's.

Charlie

[ezzy333]

APATZ-GSP,
I just picked up a 16 Guage Model 12 Win for $525.00, and its in perfect shape, there are some good old guns out there if you are willing to wait
and shop around. This is the type of shotgun to pick up with the budget you want to stay in.

RGD/Dave

If you are on a budget I wouldn't advise getting a 16 gauge unless you live in the south as the shell are quite expensive if and when you can find them.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

APATZ-GSP,
I just picked up a 16 Guage Model 12 Win for $525.00, and its in perfect shape, there are some good old guns out there if you are willing to wait
and shop around. This is the type of shotgun to pick up with the budget you want to stay in.

RGD/Dave

Or an Ithaca 37, 1940's especially. I have seen a couple without any evidence of being fired for $200.

[prairiefirepointers]

Remingtons are junk (IMO), Btw who's making them now (dupont, fischer price.....)???

Friend just bought his son an 870 while out on its first couple hunts the kid stands up in the boat to fire at some ducks and
and the ring that holds the barrel to the magazine tube broke and the barrel flies into the water leaving the kid standing there holding
a stock.....not to mention the barrel recalls they have had thru the years. I know of 3 that have breached the barrels over the years, 2 870's and 1 1100. no thanks on a remington.

Benelli Nova's - Yuk.

My Win pumps have been pretty problem free, even the salt marsh one I abuse to no end. I still have the moss 500 I started with
at 14 years old....20 ga and I use it very little anymore but I did take a deer with it last year. its never hiccup'd. And my 2 brownings
never a problem....a bps can be had used for 300 bucks, the other is a B-80 ( the predecessor to todays beretta 391's and the old 303's.

I used to like you and thought you were a half way reasonable guy... Then you went and used the words "Benelli" & "Yuk" in the same sentance. I bid you adieu.

[birddog1968]

Remingtons are junk (IMO), Btw who's making them now (dupont, fischer price.....)???

Friend just bought his son an 870 while out on its first couple hunts the kid stands up in the boat to fire at some ducks and
and the ring that holds the barrel to the magazine tube broke and the barrel flies into the water leaving the kid standing there holding
a stock.....not to mention the barrel recalls they have had thru the years. I know of 3 that have breached the barrels over the years, 2 870's and 1 1100. no thanks on a remington.

Benelli Nova's - Yuk.

My Win pumps have been pretty problem free, even the salt marsh one I abuse to no end. I still have the moss 500 I started with
at 14 years old....20 ga and I use it very little anymore but I did take a deer with it last year. its never hiccup'd. And my 2 brownings
never a problem....a bps can be had used for 300 bucks, the other is a B-80 ( the predecessor to todays beretta 391's and the old 303's.

I used to like you and thought you were a half way reasonable guy... Then you went and used the words "Benelli" & "Yuk" in the same sentance. I bid you adieu.

LOL, I just can't abide by all that funky lookin plastic.....

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Allen,
If you are going to hunt Pa I would save just a little more money and pick up an old 16 Guage Model 12 Winchester pump, you can usually pick one up between $525.00 and $625.00. They are much better made guns and will last many life times. Take your time and look around, you will come up with one, in the Pa/Ohio area 16 Guage shells are not a problem, and not very expensive.
RGD/Dave

[BigShooter]

Allen,
If you are going to hunt Pa I would save just a little more money and pick up an old 16 Guage Model 12 Winchester pump, you can usually pick one up between $525.00 and $625.00. They are much better made guns and will last many life times. Take your time and look around, you will come up with one, in the Pa/Ohio area 16 Guage shells are not a problem, and not very expensive.
RGD/Dave

Just remember to check the choke restriction on a pre-choke tube older used gun before you buy it. Shooting grouse with an old full choke 16 ga. wouldn't be my first choice. A lot of young aspen have been felled by the tight shot strings from full choke guns fired at grouse. Of course you could always get a fixed choke barrel bored out if necessary but then you'd want to know how much extra that'd cost you.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Big Shooter,
Good point, it will cost $60.00 to have the choke opened to C Or IC for Grouse hunting. Depending on the gun you pick up, you may or many not need to incur
this one time additional cost. The over all idea is to have a decent quality shotgun for reasonable money that the young hunter can afford.

RGD/Dave

[mcbosco]

Big Shooter,
Good point, it will cost $60.00 to have the choke opened to C Or IC for Grouse hunting. Depending on the gun you pick up, you may or many not need to incur
this one time additional cost. The over all idea is to have a decent quality shotgun for reasonable money that the young hunter can afford.

RGD/Dave

That is why a $350 Benelli Nova makes the most sense. Drop it, paddle with it, break ice with it and still goes boom.

[Mountaineer]

I grew hunting with a Moss 500 which was my dads. And now that i have my own bird dog pup I think i should get my first shotgun. What i was wondering is what type of gun would y'all suggest. Here is what i want to do i mostly hunt upland birds and I would like to stay under $500 so if you could let me know what you think. I also would like to get and Over and under. what brands are preferred and should i just stick to a pump for what i have to spend. Thanks in advance.

Stay with the Mossberg as you and the pup learn.
Let the new pup be the focus and not any new scattergun.
Change is not always for the best at every opportunity.
If $$$ are an issue...save.
If an O/U is what you would like then look toward a used Beretta as a new gun.
If a SXS appeals then the older SKBs are good values.
If an autoloader, then the Beretta 391 in 20 or the BUL in 12.
I would avoid the recent Turkish, etc. introductions in any configuration....they will go bang but that limits them out.
But in reality, any gun can be your best choice with practice and confidence.
As far as gauge, I would avoid the 16 and consider the 20 in a small gauge....the 12 tho is not over kill on any bird with the right choke and loads.
Older american SXSs can be a good bargain but stock dimensions may be an issue....as can stock issues with such as some LC Smiths.
The last 15 year SXS craze has brought a lot of dregs on the market as good guns....beware.

[rolawson]

I have an over and under Antoio Zoli in a 20 gauge. It has 26" barrels, bottom is improved cylinder and top is modified. The gun is in good condition. I have killed alot of birds with the gun. I am going to a 28 gauge and may sell this one. The gun has a case colored receiver and double triggers. It weighs 6 pounds and 4 oz's. The price will be $450 if I sell it. So you can see for the money you want to spend, you can buy a decent gun.

I grew hunting with a Moss 500 which was my dads. And now that i have my own bird dog pup I think i should get my first shotgun. What i was wondering is what type of gun would y'all suggest. Here is what i want to do i mostly hunt upland birds and I would like to stay under $500 so if you could let me know what you think. I also would like to get and Over and under. what brands are preferred and should i just stick to a pump for what i have to spend. Thanks in advance.

[claybuster_aa]

I grew hunting with a Moss 500 which was my dads. ...

Nuff said there, sounds like a new 500 is in order. Yea, for what you have to spend, that's probably your best move. I would stay away from the cheaper line of O/Us myself. You can get the 500 combo new for under 500 with enough left over to get a few boxes of shells. The 500 .410 looks like a neat little gun for $364 retail.

[Oldfarmer]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The 500 Mossy fits that saying perfectly. I ain't a big fan of them cheap imported doubles.

[Pleasant Ridge]

Buy a new shotgun.. For around $500.00 a Browning BPS would be hard to beat... New gun, reliable, screw-in chokes, you can shoot steel, etc...

[Addict]

Another vote for the BPS. The one in my house was used by my father, myself, and now my son. It has to be over 30 years old now and is still in great working order.

[BigShooter]

With the BPS, don't you find the bolt release on the left side is in an awkward position for a right hander?

[Pleasant Ridge]

With the BPS, don't you find the bolt release on the left side is in an awkward position for a right hander?

No, Mark I have never found an issue with it but I have never had issues going from a double trigger to single trigger gun or a trigger mounted safety to a top mounted safety either...
I had an older 12 ga. BPS upland when I was younger and sold it wanting something bigger and better, stupid.. Now I am going to look for a 16 ga. upland myself..

[wills1235]

I shoot an 870, and from what I understand, it's a good thing my old gun is still in great shape, because I wouldn't buy a new one. I hear of a lot of people having issues with new 870s, from the chamber up the barrel. I would recommend a used one though. Get a 1995 or earlier 870 for next to nuttin, and I bet you won't have any complaints. I have been looking at a 20g o/u for quail. I've shot Baikal and Yildiz recently and I really like both guns for the money. I think it was TommyBoy who told me to take a long look at the Yildiz before buying a Baikal though, and I agree wholeheartedly. It's a nice gun. For the money. My hunting buddy has 2 baikal o/u's, one 12 one 20. He's recently had issues with stocks on both of them. BTW his are a bit older, Remington Spartans for what that's worth.

[BigShooter]

With the BPS, don't you find the bolt release on the left side is in an awkward position for a right hander?

No, Mark I have never found an issue with it but I have never had issues going from a double trigger to single trigger gun or a trigger mounted safety to a top mounted safety either...
I had an older 12 ga. BPS upland when I was younger and sold it wanting something bigger and better, stupid.. Now I am going to look for a 16 ga. upland myself..

I've never had any of the other issues either. After shooting off the third shot the action must be closed before loading shells into the magazine. One loads two shells in the magazine, presses on the action release on the left side, works the action to load one shell & then finally can load the final shell into the magazine. I've always found that to be more cumbersome when waterfowling so my 12 ga. BPS gathers a lot of dust. As has ben pointed out, it's a bit heavy to carry all day hunting upland game but swings real nicely.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Gentlemen,
Here is my point, why purchase a cheaper made newer shotgun when the gentlemen can pick up an older Winchester M12 that will last many life times, and be trouble free. IMO it is always better to have a weapon that is a known quality entity, than a newer shotgun that is no where near the quality, the old gun can be handed down thru the family even after massive repetative use, the newer/cheaper made guns are not made with the same kind of quality, especially for the money being payed.

RGD/Dave

[Pleasant Ridge]

Gentlemen,
Here is my point, why purchase a cheaper made newer shotgun when the gentlemen can pick up an older Winchester M12 that will last many life times, and be trouble free. IMO it is always better to have a weapon that is a known quality entity, than a newer shotgun that is no where near the quality, the old gun can be handed down thru the family even after massive repetative use, the newer/cheaper made guns are not made with the same kind of quality, especially for the money being payed.

RGD/Dave

Dave,
In certain aspects I do see a vein of validity, I own several Ithaca 37's that were produced before 1960, but here is the issue, it can be very difficult to find what you want or what fits when purchasing an older shotgun unless you know exactly what you are looking for.. On top of that you will not only pay for the gun, you will more than likely be spending $$$ on alterations..
I have been blessed to find some really nice older guns and then I have bought some trash as well..

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Pleasant Ridge,
I do agree with you that you must educate yourself when looking to acquire a quality weapon. Your Ithaca 37 from the 60's is a good old gun, my budddy has an ultra light and he would die before giving it up. My point was for a man or lady to always purchase a quality made weapon that can be passed down for generations, rather than
a lesser quality weapon that can not be repetaively shot, especially if the gun is going to be used both for hunting and shooting trap or clays. As I indicated its not just the
Win Model 12, its any weapon like it, such as the Ithaca 37 from the 60's that I recommend these young men look for, rather than picking up a cheaper made newer gun.
RGD/Dave

[Red]

Take a look at Lanber, hard to find a better O/U for the money, IMO..
CDNN has then in stock
I have the sporting clays model and I'm very happy with it, paid 550.00 a few years ago...
Download the catalog and have a look..
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

http://www.lanberusa.com/models.htm