12 GA 2 3/4" VS 20 GA 3" ???

[nightmaregundog]

Is there a big diference I am lookin into a new gun for the NSTRA game and am trying to figure out what gauge i want. I doont want to cheat the dog by shooting a few less pellets and maybe not getting a bird for it to retrive. any thoughts would be great. Thanks Joe

[Mountaineer]

On planted birds?....no difference.
On wild birds, at times?...yes, the 12 is better.
A few pellets is seldom any reason for a miss, or wounded, bird however.
Shoot what you shoot best and with a load, in either, that matches the bird being shot.

[JKP]

Those 3 inch shells in 20 gauge are just nasty little beasties and they're expensive.....I'd rather shoot 1 oz in my 12 gauge at 1200 ft/sec...real comfortable and a better pattern up front.

[OhioVizsla]

I agree with Mountaineer & JKP.

Plus, with pointed planted quail........... the lighter the load the better. Too much shot can be worse than too little. One thing to consider is your retrieves. The first bird you blow-up & the dog doesn't want to retrieve, or eats (cause it's ripped up) on the way in after much calling, could knock you out of the trial. Especially if you have a safety or two since your safety retrieves are averaged off the scored retrieves. Shoot a light load & open chokes, you'll hit more & never blow them up. If you do happen to ding one & get an 80-100 yard retrieve, all the better for your retrieve score.

28 ga 3/4 oz = upland bird load
20 ga 3" = duck/goose load
12 ga = deer rifle

[3Britts]

Just depends on what you are shooting. I use my 12 ga. for pheasant and grouse and my 20 ga. for chuckar and quail.

[OhioVizsla]

NSTRA rule #8.16: Gunners must use 7 1/2, 8 or 9 shot shells. * Light loads only.
I would say that that rules out a 3" 20ga!

[nikegundog]

28 ga 3/4 oz = upland bird load
20 ga 3" = duck/goose load
12 ga = deer rifle

I've been a pheasant hunter for 30 years and would say that 95% to the hunters up here use a 12 gauge. Can't imagine using anything less on upland birds.
Nobody here (MN) uses a 20 gauge on geese useless they are under the age of 15, or its the only thing they own.

[JKP]

12 gauge is the most flexible shotgun there is...you can shoot 3/4 oz to 1 5/8 oz. If you shoot 1 oz light loads, its like shooting a 20 gauge and no other shotgun can put out as much lead save the 10 gauge. I'm a SxS shooter and there are plenty of light 12's that aren't much heavier than a lot of 20s. And ammo is cheap....and plentiful.

[ezzy333]

The 12 is a good gun and I occasionally carry one in recent years but for most of my hunting years I never owned anything but a 20 and I will still carry it if we are going to be out very long. I find the 20 will kill anything I hit and is a lot lighter and the comfort is of major concern to me. Guess I never went hunting when killing the most was a great concern to me. So I will stick with my 20 and always remember one of the best shots I evr saw was my father-in-law who only used a sXs 410 for the willy pheasants of Kansas.

Ezzy

[nikegundog]

I wouldn't let the weight of the gun be a big determining factor, unless you a very small guy. The difference between a 12 and 20 gauge in weight is usually less than a pound. I shoot a red label and the difference is a 1/2#. In the best interested of your dog, go with the 12 gauge. If you have any doubts look for the number of trap and skeet shooters uses 20 gauges, not many out there. In pheasant hunting it can be the difference between a cripple and a dead bird.

[nightmaregundog]

I am 6'3" 255 lbs weight is not a big concern nor is recoil it is just the balistics im looking for

[birddogger]

I wouldn't let the weight of the gun be a big determining factor, unless you a very small guy. The difference between a 12 and 20 gauge in weight is usually less than a pound. I shoot a red label and the difference is a 1/2#. In the best interested of your dog, go with the 12 gauge. If you have any doubts look for the number of trap and skeet shooters uses 20 gauges, not many out there. In pheasant hunting it can be the difference between a cripple and a dead bird.

One pound makes a pretty big difference to me if I am hunting very long. I personally opt for a light weight 20 gauge. At some point in my life, the shot gun seemed to get heavier every year.

Charlie

[Mountaineer]

.... weight is not a big concern nor is recoil it is just the balistics im looking for

IMO, "ballistics" has little to do with a scattergun.
Speed in a cartridge, other than at the extremes, can be duplicated in gauges.
Shot weight, as well, tho to a lesser extent.
Pellet size along with speed and choke determine oomph on a target.
Shot weight is often the icing on the cake that can permit more open chokes while still maintaining pattern density.
Basically, the 20 works fine for most critters...whether one agrees with the concept of 1 1/4 spit out at a larger flying critter is another issue.
While I, as most, have used a 20 for pheasants, it is, IMHO, working at the edge given anything resembling less than perfect presentations.
Lucky pellets happen tho and many love to cherry-pick shots and then brag on a gauge...happens with the 28 gauge all the time.
All depends upon how each person uses whatever gun they choose....any and all will kill and any and all will wound based upon many of the factors in a shot no one can prepare for.

If there are requirements in a game or in a trialing situation re load or pellet or pellet material used, then one would have to operate within those limits.
Not real sure, what question you may be asking if trial shooting is involved.

[OhioVizsla]

Back to the origional question of a 12 Ga 2 3/4" vs 20 Ga 3" for the NSTRA game, per the rules, it's light loads only. That would rule out 3" 20 ga shells. That being said, there isn't a whole lot of difference between shooting a (#7 1/2, #8 or #9 shot) 7/8 oz 20 ga & a 1 oz 12 ga load at a planted, pointed quail. Sure, shoot the gauge that you're most comfortable with. Most of the NSTRA events I've been in/judged, the 20 & 12 gunners seems to be split. The thing I have seen is the high percentage of autoloader shooters, & the occasional machine gun firing of them! You don't see many doubles, & rarely a pump gun.

[nightmaregundog]

I should have stated it will be a auto loader that im gonna buy, havent decided the brand yet though

[JKP]

I should have stated it will be a auto loader that im gonna buy, havent decided the brand yet though

Check carefully about how the autos you're looking at recycle with lighter loads....my S x S recycles everything