Best 20 g. waterfowl load

[Mollyontherun]

This was my first year hunting ducks over a blind. I'm wrestling with whether to use my 3" 20g or buy a new 12g. auto loader. Last season I started on the 20 and then stole my son's 12 (my son wants his 12 g back). I think my 20g will do fine on the teal and widgeon, but I'm concerned about the Mallards- even though i've shot a several with the 20g.

Considering lethality and price... any opinions on the best 20 g. load?

What are the advantages and disadvantages of a 1 oz @ 1330fps vs. a 7/8 oz @ 1500fps?

Finally... I've read that #3 steel shot is prefered to #2 steel shot in a 20 g. why?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[B BUG]

I don't know if recoil plays into your equation and aparently weight does not (since you said you are hunting from a blind) but it has been my finding that a 3" 20 kicks way more than a 3" 12. I know that when one is hunting, one usually will not shoot so many times that recoil becomes an issue, but it is one thing I take into consideration when I am looking for something to hunt with.
Another thing to think about is how easy it is to get your ammo when needed. 12ga. shells are just about everywhere in my area, but when it comes to 3" 20ga. duck loads, good luck finding them. I have not checked but my guess is that they would be pricey too.
As for 3 shot over 2, I could only guess that it has something to do with trying to cram bigger balls into a small area causing a longer shot string. It may be that you would have fewer holes in your patteren with aprox. 28 more pellets in a 1oz. load. I am sure someone has done alot of testing on this and has the data to go along with it. I have found it to be in my best interest to "patteren" different loads in different speeds,shot size and weight with the gun I plan to use. It is amazing how different one gun will patteren over another with the same shells.

[mcbosco]

I don't think I have ever seen a duck hunter with a 20 gauge in NJ and I can't imagine walking into DDick's Sporting Goods and asking the guy for 3" 20 gauge shells. I would just get a blank stare. I find it hard enough getting 20 gauge target loads.

12 all the way.

[nikegundog]

Its not that hard to find them in MN. A rem 870 in 20 gauge was the first gun I got at age 9 and I took a lot of ducks, geese and pheasants with it. I used 2 and 4 shot in 3" depending on circumstances. However I switched to 12 gauge at age 16 and have never looked back. I bought my son a 20 2 years ago and he loves it, but it does buck with 3" shells.

[northern cajun]

The performance of the 20 is the same as the 12 with the exception of pellet count.
To answer you question you have about 200 more ft/Ibs of kinetic energy in the 7/8 oz load at 1500 fps.


Over decoys a 20 ga is fine and you can kill a ton of big ducks.
I agree that finding 20 ga. 3" shells are not easy to find.


I like the 12 gauge much more versatile with all the load combinations.

[nikegundog]

The performance of the 20 is the same as the 12 with the exception of pellet count.

But the difference in pellet count can mean the difference between a clean kill or not. It's not a minor difference.

[thunderhead]

If you are thinking about getting a 12 ga, it sure would open up the options on waterfowl loads. You can however do well with the 20. I would suggest the high desity loads, rather than shooting steel. You will pay more, but you are getting a better load for waterfowl.

[Mollyontherun]

If you are thinking about getting a 12 ga, it sure would open up the options on waterfowl loads. You can however do well with the 20. I would suggest the high desity loads, rather than shooting steel. You will pay more, but you are getting a better load for waterfowl.

I wish the hevi loads economically feasible considering budget. If they were economical... I wouldn't think twice about the 20g.- and just use the hevi.

The performance of the 20 is the same as the 12 with the exception of pellet count.
To answer you question you have about 200 more ft/Ibs of kinetic energy in the 7/8 oz load at 1500 fps.

Over decoys a 20 ga is fine and you can kill a ton of big ducks.
I agree that finding 20 ga. 3" shells are not easy to find.

I like the 12 gauge much more versatile with all the load combinations.

So I read you saying that the 7/8 oz. 1500 fps is a more lethal load than the 1 oz. 1330?

In my area it's very easy to find 3" 20 g. #2 Kent Faststeel. But I'm thinking that #3 might be better for Ducks because increased pellet count and stil 1500 fps


It's hard to find 3" lead

[jarbo03]

On any smaller ducks #4 shot would be fine, and any bigger ducks over decoys they would be fine also. I would go with the 7/8 oz load, the pellet count for steel is much higher than that of lead with same shot size and payload. I reload 7/8 oz of #4s for all of my duck shooting, these are at 1700+ fps, in your situation I would go with #3s, there are still plenty of pellets to get good pattern density at reasonable ranges.

[millerms06]

While I agree 20 gauge might be an OK choice over decoys, do you mind the recoil? Personally I would think that target acquisition after the second shot would be a key thing to consider and the 12 gauge 3" will be easier than a 20 gauge 3". But if the recoil doesn't hinder this point, then it doesn't matter what you personally shoot.

Shot string is something to take note though. On a stationary target it wouldn't make that much of a difference what gauge you use. But with a moving target, and in this case there is a potential for more than one, a 12 gauge will concentrate more pellets into the bird than a 20 gauge. Cripples can happen, but it is more satisfying watching what is shot drop stone dead. With the distance, speed, and mass of the target it makes more sense for a the bigger bore. The more on your side the better I say.

All of this is to me personal choice and is always suspect for someone to see what works for them. For me I will use my 20 gauge as a rabbit and pen raised bird possibility than a choice for a duck and wild pheasant.

[northern cajun]

So I read you saying that the 7/8 oz. 1500 fps is a more lethal load than the 1 oz. 1330?

In my area it's very easy to find 3" 20 g. #2 Kent Faststeel. But I'm thinking that #3 might be better for Ducks because increased pellet count and stil 1500 fps


It's hard to find 3" lead

I did not say that load was more lethal I said it had more kinetic energy. It may not fly well out of your gun, always pattern your loads.

I shoot 12 at everything easier to find ammo and more combinations.

[Mollyontherun]

reload 7/8 oz of #4s for all of my duck shooting, these are at 1700+ fps,

Wow! 1700+ fps? That's smokin. Can you send me a case?

While I agree 20 gauge might be an OK choice over decoys, do you mind the recoil?

I have a semi-auto w/o a recoil pad. Even the 3" shells are felt lightly. So 3" are no problem with recoil.

For me I will use my 20 gauge as a rabbit and pen raised bird possibility than a choice for a duck and wild pheasant.

That's where I'm at. As an upland hunter I was totally satisfied with my 20 g. 3" lead loads on wild pheseant. But now... after my first season of duck hunting I'm wrestling with needing a 12 g. or finding more lethal load for my 20 g.

I bought a box of #4 Black Cloud 3" and still felt I was underpowered- especially on Mallards. I'm still undecided about the #2 Kent Fast Steel 7/8 oz. I knocked the Mallard in the pic flat with that load. I had a Rem. 1100 12 g. out at the end of the season shooting Blue Bills screaming down a river cut. I have my doubts about how my 20 g. would have handled that shooting condition.

[birddog1968]

I don't think I have ever seen a duck hunter with a 20 gauge in NJ and I can't imagine walking into DDick's Sporting Goods and asking the guy for 3" 20 gauge shells. I would just get a blank stare. I find it hard enough getting 20 gauge target loads.

12 all the way.

I hunted 75 percent of the time last year in North Dakota with 3inch 20 ga. if you finish your birds and only shoot decoying birds you can kill em with a 410. On real windy days or days when you think you might have to take some passing shots , is when i go to the 12ga.

[nikegundog]

if you finish your birds and only shoot decoying birds you can kill em with a 410.

On this note you should be able to kill them in every situation with the 410, because the performance of the 410 is the same as the 12 gauge except for the pellet count.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Mollyontherun,
If you are planning on staying with the 20 guage the 3" shells you want are Fiocchi, you can get them from Lion Country supply, they will deliver them right to your door.
Great shells, I use them in my 20 guage for jump shooting Wood Ducks along our mountain streams, when the Woodies and Grouse are both in season at the same time.
RGD/Dave

[Mollyontherun]

Mollyontherun,
If you are planning on staying with the 20 guage the 3" shells you want are Fiocchi, you can get them from Lion Country supply, they will deliver them right to your door.
Great shells, I use them in my 20 guage for jump shooting Wood Ducks along our mountain streams, when the Woodies and Grouse are both in season at the same time.
RGD/Dave

Dave,

Why do you prefer Fiochi over Kent Fasteel?

BTW- I've purchased stuff from Lion Country. I've found them very helpful.

MONTR/John

[jarbo03]

MONTR, I would also check out http://store.rogerssportinggoods.com , they can have good deals and most shells have free shipping when bought by the case.
Performance wise the Fiocchi, Kent, and Federal are all quality shells. The Kents are the fastest, which I like, but the hulls are not waterproof, and the brass is more likely to rust if wet, and the shot is not plated which can also rust if wet and stored for longer periods of time, the Federals have the largest payload and I believe more options on shot size, an overall quality shell, the Fiocchis split the difference, use quality components( I belive B & P shotcups with zinc plated steel) and in my opinion the best hulls on the market, have had nothing but great luck with Fiocchi myself. Find the payload and velocity that suits your needs and you should be fine with any of these.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Montor/John,
I really like the 3" Fiocchi steel, the quality control is just fantastic with the Fiocchi company and before I gifted my Churchill 20, they really patterned quite well
out of it. I did not recommend Rogers, which is a great place to purchase ammo, because Rogers was not carring the 20 Guage 3" shell, they might be now, but
the shells are not shown on their Web page. Another good shell Fiocchi makes is then 20 guage, 3" , 1 1/4 oz , Golden Pheasant, man what a reach out and touch Pheasant load.
RGD/Dave

[jarbo03]

I was at Rogers last weekend to pick up some decoys, been thinking about a 20 gauge so I looked at ammo. They had Fiocchi 2 3/4", Kent 3", Federal Premium, and Fed Black Cloud in stock currently. Best deals are by the case with free shipping.

[barthowes]

I've hunted with my 3" 20 for years. not ducks but turkey, grouse, and deer. It's all about what patterns in your gun well. There is an obvious loss in pellet count so you have to be more picky with what shots you take, but shouldn't we all yes a 3" 20 kicks, but only if your gun is lighter than your 12 and by no means even comparable to the kick of a 3" 12. I personally would recomend the Federal wingshot HD. Cost is out ragous but you can go down 2 sizes compared to steel and get that many more pellets. just my 2 cents

[Mollyontherun]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I've decided to stay with the 20 gas auto.

I'm going to pattern specific shells this weekend and confirm they pattern well.

For Turkey... I'm going to use the Remington Nitro 3" #5 in an extra full choke.

For early season duck I might experiment with the 2 3/4 #6 1500 fps Kent Upland Steel with a modified choke and make the Kent #2 my second and third shells. Does anyone have experience with the Rem. Hi Speed Steel 2 3/4 #7s? They shoot at over 1400 fps. I know I would have to shoot them at 30 yds or less.
Dog: We'll also take Molly the GSP if the weather is warm.

For late season Ducks I plan on shooting Kent 3" 7/8 oz. #2 1550 fps loads in a medium choke. I've taken down a couple of ducks with these loads, but I got away from them and went with the Black Cloud #4. The Federal Rep. at the Sports Show claims they should have clobbered Ducks... but they were crippling all the decoyed ducks I tagged with the Black Cloud. I even had a Mallard dust them under 40 yds.
Dog: We're going to borrow my sister's black lab for late season. Molly the GSP gets too cold and whinny.


For hunting planted Phez on public lands I'll probably shoot 2 3/4 #6 Kent Upland Steel with a modified choke and make the Kent #2 my second shell. We'll keep Molly on the Phez and Quail.

For wild Phez on private land I'll shoot 3" #5 Fiochi Golden Pheasant (I've used these before).

[Mollyontherun]

After pattering my gun I bought a case of Kent Fasteel 3' #2 20 gauge. I've also put a limbsaver on my 1300 SKB Auto so very little felt recoil. For Phez. it's a dilema. I hunt a lot of late season wild Phez. Based on my my shooting experience/ability #4 steel is not adequate unless I am shooting over the dog. However, #2 mangles birds shot over the dog. Since I shoot a single barrel- I'm going to stick with lead in the 20 g. during phez season. I purchased some #5 Fiochi 3" copper plated lead. Hope to see some success.

Perhaps, I'll ask for some Heavi Shot #4s for Christmas

The following article swayed me in the direction I was already leaning.

As far as ballistics are concerned, it's widely accepted in forensic circles that a pellet requires 3 ft/lbs of retained energy to break wing bones or otherwise create lethal body penetration of waterfowl. If you go to a recognized ballistic chart (I use "Shotshells & Ballistics" by John Taylor) you will find that a 7/8 oz load of 3" #3s (Kents) has a MV of over 1,600 FPS and boasts a retained energy of 3.38 ft/lbs at 40 yards, 2.53 at 50.

The same round in a 1 oz load has a reduced MV of 1,417 fps and a 40 yard down range fps of 2.84, and at 50 yards it drops to 2.15. Between these two loads, faster really is better since the 1 os load is deemed inadequate at 40 yards to deliver clean kills.

The difference in velocity and FPS becomes dramatic when dropping to #4 shot where at 30 yards the retained energy is 2.87 ft/lbs and that's where you begin to see lots of "feather dusting" and crips flying off.

The converse is also true. 7/8 oz of #2s from a 20 ga 3" Kent delivers 3.05 ft/lbs at 50 yards and a crushing 4.65 at 40 yards.

[deke]

Duck hunting i always use a remington 20ga . I shoot kent 3in 3s. You can kill a goose with that load, just shoot straight.

[northern cajun]

The performance of the 20 is the same as the 12 with the exception of pellet count.

But the difference in pellet count can mean the difference between a clean kill or not. It's not a minor difference.

I never said it was a minor difference. You draw inference where it is not founded. Pattern wise at 20 yards with the same chokes at thirty etc. the 20 ga and 12 ga pattern the same, of course any one with common sense would understand what I meant with the exception of pellet count.

[nikegundog]

I never said it was a minor difference. You draw inference where it is not founded. Pattern wise at 20 yards with the same chokes at thirty etc. the 20 ga and 12 ga pattern the same, of course any one with common sense would understand what I meant with the exception of pellet count.

I was just trying to point it out the the OP, while many who have grown up around firearms would say it is common sense, it might not be common sense to someone who asks a question on a open forum. I was trying to help out the OP not trying to put you down, hope this helps.

[northern cajun]

I never said it was a minor difference. You draw inference where it is not founded. Pattern wise at 20 yards with the same chokes at thirty etc. the 20 ga and 12 ga pattern the same, of course any one with common sense would understand what I meant with the exception of pellet count.

I was just trying to point it out the the OP, while many who have grown up around firearms would say it is common sense, it might not be common sense to someone who asks a question on a open forum. I was trying to help out the OP not trying to put you down, hope this helps.

Got cha its all good.

[Mollyontherun]

I'm going to stick with lead in the 20 g. during phez season. I purchased some #5 Fiochi 3" copper plated lead.

Consindering price and value- I have not been impressed by the Fiochi. I'm going to stick with the 2 3/4 Remington Phez loads. More economical and I seem to harvest as many birds as with the 3" shells.

The #2 Kents have worked well this season. I've been using a Briley IC choke that I patterned with the #2s and I have harvested a good share of birds with only a few feather dusting. Next year I may buy a Brileys Mod choke and use for late season waterfowl.

Next week I will use the 20 goose hunting. I'm eager to see how the 20 gauge will perform on geese.

[jimbo&rooster]

I'm going to stick with lead in the 20 g. during phez season. I purchased some #5 Fiochi 3" copper plated lead.

Consindering price and value- I have not been impressed by the Fiochi. I'm going to stick with the 2 3/4 Remington Phez loads. More economical and I seem to harvest as many birds as with the 3" shells.

The #2 Kents have worked well this season. I've been using a Briley IC choke that I patterned with the #2s and I have harvested a good share of birds with only a few feather dusting. Next year I may buy a Brileys Mod choke and use for late season waterfowl.

Next week I will use the 20 goose hunting. I'm eager to see how the 20 gauge will perform on geese.

When i was in college I used to go down to arkansas to duck hunt with a melon broker who duck hunted with nothing but an old "sweet 16", shooting 2 3/4" #2 kent. He used to give me and a buddy of mine a rough way to go when we were blasting ducks in timber and over flooded rice with our 3.5in 12ga stuff so i started taking my 20ga o/u down and i killed a ton of ducks, mostly mallards teal and gadwalls with cheap 1oz winchester xpert 3"#2s. when the snows would start to fly I would go from I/C over Mod to Mod over Imp Mod. I spent alot of time here at home shooting ducks and geese with the same load. i never really changed my load if i could help it. It was always easier to change my chokes.

Every duck or goose I have ever killed with a 20ga was killed feet down in the blocks, you just have to know your limits and the limits of your equipment.

Jim