Shotgun dilemma

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:51 pm

So I can only buy one but what one. Rem 870 wingmaster both take 2.75 & 3 both good condition, one is a plain barrel 26" & the others a 30" vent ribbed. Both fixed choke full. Plain $ 250 vr is $ 300. Help me pick one. Both equal condition and wood.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:22 pm

For hunting in AZ. you don't want a full choke. More mod or improved. There's plenty out there.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:24 pm

I would keep looking. The prices are top dollar retail. The fixed full choke will mess you up onanything but long bombs. Walmart has brand new 870s for less than 400 with interchangeable chokes. A 28 inch barrel is about right unless you are under 5 foot or over 6.4. The advice i am giving is for an all around basic hunting gun.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:24 pm

If using for upland a fixed Full choke is not the desired choke setting I would even consider. But that is me, I would pass

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:34 pm

Gander Mountain has the 12 gauge Express in 26 or 28 in barrels for $279., thats what I would do. If you want one of the 2 you mentioned, spend the extra $50 for the vent rib, as mentioned they are over-priced.

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:54 pm

These are wingmaster not express and on either I planned on opening up to mod or imp mod.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:08 pm

Ranger351 wrote:These are wingmaster not express and on either I planned on opening up to mod or imp mod.

I understand that it is a wingmaster, but there are something like 6 million of them out there. Around me the plain barrel wingmaster would go for about $150 in average condition, and the vent rib about $225, if they had adjustable chokes they would be much more. I would much rather have a Wingmaster just not at those prices. Have you checked what its going to cost you to open those chokes up?

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:55 pm

You couldnt give me a plain bbl shotgun or one with fixed chokes, especially full. Even being wingmasters they are a dime a dozen. I would buy an express at $350 or less and have a more useful gun. I also wouldnt be looking to a 30in bbl for an upland gun....

Jim

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:04 pm

The 30" barrel is too long for most types of hunting but is good for trap shooting. I am surprised the 26" barrel is fixed full because that length of barrel usually has a more open choke if it is fixed. I would much rather have the wing master than the express but if I were you I would shop around and if you are an upland hunter, go with a 26" IC. or interchangeable chokes. Having said that, for any type of hunting, I wouldn't use anything tighter than modified.

Charlie

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:24 pm

Ok good to know, around me and what I've seen online all I've come across has been more expensive. Guess I'll keep an eye out for a while longer.

Ninkasi · Post by **Ninkasi** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:49 pm

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =247258496

Just did a quick search. I have had positive experience with Gun Broker. Just remember to account for shipping and any FFL fees on your side of the purchase.

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:16 am

Ok so I looked a bit more and a express super mag is 350 with one choke so add 2 more and I'm closer to 425. Is that what I should be looking more towards than an older wingmaster? I have heard so many problems with the express and especially the newer ones I am just a bit (pardon the term) gun shy. I really was looking at an o/u but seems I cant get one for less than 500 so trying to decide if its really what I want to do or what. I wanted a Yildiz but the $400 model will cost me $500 by the time I get it. Right at my budget for everything but will come with 5 chokes as well as being brand new. Guess I am just not 100% sure yet and just trying to get some good opinions on what will be better for me.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:33 am

Also Keep checking your local pawn shops and smaller gun stores the do consignments even cabelas as a used gun rack which sits close to the fine gun library

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:42 am

I will keep an eye out but I've never come across anyone who has a Yildiz here in Az yet. But I will look at all the stores and keep shopping

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:47 am

In your price range you may look into a stoeger condor. they aren't pretty but they are a nice O/U for under $400 bucks locally.

Jim

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:49 am

Ranger make the drive over to El Paso and buy a Yildiz. It is worth it. I have 2 one in 12 and one in 20 gauge. They are wonderful shotguns and super light. Extremely reliable. I had a Stoeger Condor and just could not hit the broadside of a barn with it. I do very well with my Yildiz'. Could be that I am a left handed shooter and shooting right handed guns.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:55 am

tommyboy72 wrote:I had a Stoeger Condor and just could not hit the broadside of a barn with it.

Common Tommy....Blaming the gun for your poor shooting.......Your better than that

.

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:17 am

I've seen the stoeger and it just wasn't for me. I have a buddy who lives in nm and academy will not sell to residents of other states already tried. Wouldn't mind finding someone who has the time to pick a good one and sell it to me for a bit extra to cover his time.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:29 am

go to a walmart that sells guns...look at the book they have behind the counter and see if they can order it

As for academy that is their rule I tried to get a 17 for christmas a couple years ago when we were in texas...they wouldn't sell to me because of their resident only policy so we drove about a mile up the road to the walmart and not only saved money literally about 50 bucks cheaper then academy had on the rack..i was sighted in and shooting varmits by that evening

as Walmart sells to reciprocating states.

markj · Post by **markj** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:43 am

Get the plsain one add a new barrell has screw in chokes, CDNN has remington barrels on sale now.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:52 am

I would get the Baikal for $400. Best metal work of the cheap guns without a doubt.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:07 am

nikegundog wrote:
Ranger351 wrote:These are wingmaster not express and on either I planned on opening up to mod or imp mod.
I understand that it is a wingmaster, but there are something like 6 million of them out there. Around me the plain barrel wingmaster would go for about $150 in average condition, and the vent rib about $225, if they had adjustable chokes they would be much more. I would much rather have a Wingmaster just not at those prices. Have you checked what its going to cost you to open those chokes up?

I tried posting this earlier, but it didn't show up so I apologize if you get it twice..

Where are you finding $150 wingmasters in MN? How old are they? Personally, I would never buy a new 870 express and would prefer an older wingmaster over a new one (not willing to say I'd never buy a new one, but I am suspicious of the quality of the guns inner components...no proof to back that up but I just feel that way about tools these days...it pays to make a product that eventually breaks!

) IMO the older guns are simply made better and will last your lifetime while the new ones wont. I have a 20ga wingmaster that was made in the late 50's early 60's and it works like a charm. I dropped $400 on it but considering the condition I would still consider that a steal. The cheapest older wingmaster I've seen in MN was $330 and it wasn't in great condition. If my memory serves me right the new expresses are more expensive than that ($500?), and IMO the quality of components and material just don't stand a chance next to the old guns. But if you are finding older wingmasters in MN for $150 let me know where because I know plenty of people that would be very interested in that!

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:53 am

The new express's are junk. You can feel and hear the difference. They retail about 350.00 for the standard. As far as selling long guns some stores have a wierd policy. In AZ. you don't have to be a resident to buy a long gun, except for Calif. Ill. and about seven other states. I've sold guns for years and like I said some stores are different.

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:20 pm

That's what makes getting a yildiz next to impossible

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:39 pm

Go to Bear Mountain and have them order you one.

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:53 pm

Academy wont sell to other stores already tried.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:11 pm

I live in Oklahoma but out in the middle of the panhandle so it is closer for me to drive to Amarillo, Tx. than it is for me to drive to OKC or Tulsa and I bought mine with an out of state license at Academy in Amarillo.

MC I have a Baikal sxs in 20 gauge. I traded a Weatherby Semi Auto for it because the stock was bent for a left handed shooter like myself. It points like a baseball bat and with 26 in. barrels the sight plain is a bit short for me but I can hit birds with it.

Ron that is my excuse and I am sticking with it.

I used it for about 1/2 a dove season, sold it and went to Amarillo and bought my Yildiz 12 gauge and have been happy every since then.

Forgot to mention on top of not being able to hit anything with the Condor it was broken right off the shelf. The second barrel would not fire so I had to drive back to Amarillo which is 100 miles away and have Gander Mountain ship it out to Benelli/Stoeger for me then there was a 3 week delay on it because the gun got lost at the factory. Gander Mountain shipped it out to Benelli which is downstairs from Stoeger so the gun was just laying around in their receiving warehouse about a mile from the factory until a really nice customer service manager finally located it and got it driven to the factory and fixed and immediately sent back out to me but the entire process took about a month and half to fix.

If you can find a relative or close friend in state or in a bordering state who will go to Academy and buy the gun for you and then reimburse them and recieve a bill of sale from the individual that may be the way to go. Good luck.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:21 pm

Ranger351 wrote:Academy wont sell to other stores already tried.

Didn't know there was an Academy store in Mesa, AZ. There's too many places to order a gun in Arizona, Bear Mountain, Phoenix Shooter's supply. Pick up the yellow pages and let you fingers do the walking.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 pm

http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/usa ... rch=Yildiz all you have to do is ship to a gunshop there are other gun sales site ...it is worth the extra for sending COD that way you are not out any money until the product is in your hands

http://www.matrixbookstore.biz/gun_dealers2.htm or here call around

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:09 pm

DogNewbie wrote:
nikegundog wrote:
Ranger351 wrote:These are wingmaster not express and on either I planned on opening up to mod or imp mod.
I understand that it is a wingmaster, but there are something like 6 million of them out there. Around me the plain barrel wingmaster would go for about $150 in average condition, and the vent rib about $225, if they had adjustable chokes they would be much more. I would much rather have a Wingmaster just not at those prices. Have you checked what its going to cost you to open those chokes up?
I tried posting this earlier, but it didn't show up so I apologize if you get it twice..

Where are you finding $150 wingmasters in MN? How old are they? Personally, I would never buy a new 870 express and would prefer an older wingmaster over a new one (not willing to say I'd never buy a new one, but I am suspicious of the quality of the guns inner components...no proof to back that up but I just feel that way about tools these days...it pays to make a product that eventually breaks! ) IMO the older guns are simply made better and will last your lifetime while the new ones wont. I have a 20ga wingmaster that was made in the late 50's early 60's and it works like a charm. I dropped $400 on it but considering the condition I would still consider that a steal. The cheapest older wingmaster I've seen in MN was $330 and it wasn't in great condition. If my memory serves me right the new expresses are more expensive than that ($500?), and IMO the quality of components and material just don't stand a chance next to the old guns. But if you are finding older wingmasters in MN for $150 let me know where because I know plenty of people that would be very interested in that!

I'll let you know when I find the cheap 870's, I find the in small gun shops in the off season, $150-$175 will get you a 12 gauge non-VR in 2 3/4", I use to find good deals at gun shows but in the last several years prices have not been good. I have though time driving by a gun shop without checking them out for 10 minutes, I kind of cringe when it was mentioned that 2 chokes would cost $75 when I see them in bargan bins for $8-$12. Right now the Remington 12 gauge express is on sale for $280 at Gander. I would believe if there was anything wrong with it, you would find out by the end of this season and then Gander would make it right for you.
http://gandermountain.shoplocal.com/gan ... 2083064281

Post by **kninebirddog** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:31 pm

Cross Roads of the West Gun Show

9.10.11 - 9.11.11
Phoenix, AZ
In September, the Coliseum at the Arizona State Fairgrounds.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:39 pm

kninebirddog wrote:Also Keep checking your local pawn shops and smaller gun stores the do consignments even cabelas as a used gun rack which sits close to the fine gun library

The used guns that I have seen at Cabelas are priced way to high IMO, although I realize Cabelas has to make money on them.

Charlie

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:44 pm

I guess Yildiz is only sold at Academy stores. Check Gunbroker.com there should be something. The gun show in Phoenix will have thousands of gun. As far as Remchokes they only cost 20.00 each. And as far as having someone else buy a gun for you, it's a little illegal. It's called a straw purchase. A major fine and jail time, Federal offence. Just be careful.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:25 pm

nikegundog wrote: I'll let you know when I find the cheap 870's, I find the in small gun shops in the off season, $150-$175 will get you a 12 gauge non-VR in 2 3/4", I use to find good deals at gun shows but in the last several years prices have not been good. I have though time driving by a gun shop without checking them out for 10 minutes, I kind of cringe when it was mentioned that 2 chokes would cost $75 when I see them in bargan bins for $8-$12. Right now the Remington 12 gauge express is on sale for $280 at Gander. I would believe if there was anything wrong with it, you would find out by the end of this season and then Gander would make it right for you.
http://gandermountain.shoplocal.com/gan ... 2083064281

That would be awesome. How far from the cities are you located? Like I said before, I've found 870's in the cities, but never for a price that low.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:29 pm

That would be awesome. How far from the cities are you located? Like I said before, I've found 870's in the cities, but never for a price that low.

Straight West of the Cities about 30 miles from SD.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:33 pm

http://www.gandermountain.com/gunsmith/ ... sing.shtml

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:33 pm

kensfishing wrote:And as far as having someone else buy a gun for you, it's a little illegal. It's called a straw purchase. A major fine and jail time, Federal offence. Just be careful.

Not if the individual purchases it for you as a "gift" and you are legally allowed to own a firearm. Apparently you have never been to a farm auction where you have gentlemen with deep pockets on the phone with a bidder buying up nice antique firearms that would otherwise go for little to nothing on the actual value of the firearm. Happens all the time.

Ken, also, Academy is the only importer of Yildiz in the U.S. that I know of. The guns are from Turkish manufacturer thus the extremely nice Turkish walnut on them.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:55 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:
kensfishing wrote:And as far as having someone else buy a gun for you, it's a little illegal. It's called a straw purchase. A major fine and jail time, Federal offence. Just be careful.
Not if the individual purchases it for you as a "gift" and you are legally allowed to own a firearm. Apparently you have never been to a farm auction where you have gentlemen with deep pockets on the phone with a bidder buying up nice antique firearms that would otherwise go for little to nothing on the actual value of the firearm. Happens all the time.

Ken, also, Academy is the only importer of Yildiz in the U.S. that I know of. The guns are from Turkish manufacturer thus the extremely nice Turkish walnut on them.

Tommy, the auction thing happens around hear as you described, however the guy buying on the phone still has to come in and fill out the paperwork before the gun is transferred. +1 on being able to purchase as a gift, it even says its legal on the background form (form 4473).

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:26 pm

Well I also want it to be known that I have never had anyone else purchase a firearm for me either but it really upsets me that a business to step on my constitutional right as a legal U.S. citizen with no criminal background whatsoever to purchase a firearm. I hate the fact that we are not allowed to purchase handguns out of state and now some businesses are extending that to encompass long guns as well. There is no good reason why someone who is legally permissible to buy a firearm in Alabama should not be able to come to Oklahoma and buy one. Stupid bureaucratic bs is what it is.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:32 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:Well I also want it to be known that I have never had anyone else purchase a firearm for me either but it really upsets me that a business to step on my constitutional right as a legal U.S. citizen with no criminal background whatsoever to purchase a firearm. I hate the fact that we are not allowed to purchase handguns out of state and now some businesses are extending that to encompass long guns as well. There is no good reason why someone who is legally permissible to buy a firearm in Alabama should not be able to come to Oklahoma and buy one. Stupid bureaucratic bs is what it is..

+1

Charlie

Post by **kninebirddog** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:48 pm

Depends on the state ..Academy stores have their own rule which limits their own sales to residents only. As I stated before the one in Texas is the same way.

Walmart and many other gun shops and stores will sell to those states that reciprocate with same laws on Long guns but not on handguns. There you are left to private sellers which look through some local papers and stuff ...You can purchase cross lines guns have to be shipped to an FFL place/person you will be run through the NICS check

I have purchased guns in Indiana and Texas.

sad part is all the gun laws will never stop a criminal from owning guns it only makes it harder for the honest people to have them.

asc · Post by **asc** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:59 pm

I buy guns from Buds in Kentucky and then pay a local FFL dealer $25 to process and do background check. Google Budsgunshop.

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:16 pm

tommyboy72 wrote:
kensfishing wrote:And as far as having someone else buy a gun for you, it's a little illegal. It's called a straw purchase. A major fine and jail time, Federal offence. Just be careful.
Not if the individual purchases it for you as a "gift" and you are legally allowed to own a firearm. Apparently you have never been to a farm auction where you have gentlemen with deep pockets on the phone with a bidder buying up nice antique firearms that would otherwise go for little to nothing on the actual value of the firearm. Happens all the time.

Ken, also, Academy is the only importer of Yildiz in the U.S. that I know of. The guns are from Turkish manufacturer thus the extremely nice Turkish walnut on them.

You're right as a gift, but you make sure the person getting the firearm is legal. I've seen it too many times.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:25 am

If you check out gunsamerica.com they have a find FFL link. Punch in your zip.code and you will find many ffl holders that are in your area. I have used this method to buy and sell when i can't find what i want in my area. Also have used gunsamerica to sell my ariettia that i couldint sell in my area.
Paul crosnoe guns has lots of new double shotguns at great prices. I bought a couple of 28 guage czs and a 12 guage De Haan cheaper than anywhere else. Cdnn in abieline has really nice spanish made doubles on occasion in their flyer which you can download at their website.

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:41 am

I will look into both of those places. As well I have made plans to go to the local gunshow here in town coming up and am stopping on the way home today to check out a wingmaster from a pawn shop. Thanks for all the great advice.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:45 am

Look up the number for Bucks guns in Casa Grande some times he gets some pretty decent deals on consignments.

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:26 am

ok well last night at the pawnshop was a bust so I'm still looking and plan on heading to the gun show

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:46 am

Ranger351 wrote:ok well last night at the pawnshop was a bust so I'm still looking and plan on heading to the gun show

So are you still thinking wingmaster or a o/u? I can't hunt with a o/u because it usually takes at least 3 shells before I actually hit anything!

Ranger351 · Post by **Ranger351** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:51 pm

An o/u is my preference but wingmaster is second. Just cant seem to get a good yildiz without waiting forever and paying way more than retail.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:24 pm

Ranger351 wrote:An o/u is my preference but wingmaster is second. Just cant seem to get a good yildiz without waiting forever and paying way more than retail.

I'll have to check out that yildiz one of these days. I've been wanting a light weight affordable 12ga o/u for pheasant hunting for a while now. Sounds like it's a legit gun.

Tim