winchester m-12 16 ga

[steamer]

im looking around at some m- 12 16 ga pump guns . i see that some are chambered with 2 9-16 maybe the older ones. i saw one today that was advertised as 2 7-16 not sure if this was a typo or just something rare. what i would like to now is if anyone knows what the date or serial number is that they were made with the 2 3-4 chamber. anything other helpfull info would also be great. i know 16s cost more to shoot but i have 12s and 20s and want something different. thanks for any help

[Vman]

The 2 9/16th chambers are for paper hulls. Do not buy for a shooter unless you plan on reloading paper. Not sure when they went to 2 3/4 chamber. Winchester could probably tell you. My 2 9/16th 16ga. was made in 1916 if I remember right. It is also made of Nickel steel.

[DonF]

I never heard of a 2 9/16th shell. I thought there was 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 3 and 3 1/2. I never heard of the 2 7/16th either. You guys have any ammo for them? Where do you get new hulls? Maybe just cut down new shell's and get data from somewhere? If your using paper hulls, where do you get them?

[Vman]

I don`t shoot the gun anymore, and I never tried any new{current} paper shells. But old paper shells made pre plastic will measure 2 9/16, even tho the barrel will say 2 3/4 in shells. My guess is, if you can find a manufacturer of paper 16ga. shells they also will be 2 9/16 in length once fired. I used to shoot old paper shells when i was a kid in the sixties out of mine an it would work fine. When I ran out of paper I would use plastic and it was then a single shot. I would take my jacknife and pry the hull out of the chamber.
Maybe somebody can help us on this. I know my M12 16ga. is 2 9/16 in. but were all the old guns this way or just the 16ga.?

[Vman]

I found this on Wikipedia.

The majority of "modern" Model 12 shotguns manufactured after the 1930s were chambered for 2¾-inch shotgun shells, only, although some specialized models such as the Heavy Duck Gun Model 12 were chambered for 3" Super Speed and Super X shells basically a 3" magnum. Some early 16 gauge Model 12's, however, were chambered for 2 9/16-inch shotgun shells, the 12 gauge guns had chambers that were 2⅝" and the 20 gauges had chambers that were 2½". To add further confusion, some of these early Model 12's have subsequently been modified, with their chambers lengthened to accept 2¾-inch shotgun shells, while others remain in their factory-stock chamber lengths. Careful inspection by a gunsmith is always recommended to determine whether or not it is safe to fire a modern 2¾-inch shotgun shell in older Model 12's.

[steamer]

thanks for the replies . v man i read some of the same info. i read in a couple of places that 1927 was the year that they were changed from 2 9-16 to 2 3-4. I would like to here some info also on what to look for in an older shot gun . maybe how to tell if restoration work has been done , matching serial numbers or anything else any one would like to add.

[birddogger]

I have an older M12 16 ga. that I would part with. It is in good condition with normal wear and is chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells. It may not be what you are looking for. It has a 26" cylinder bore barrel and is a good shooter.

Charlie

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Birddoger,
I have the same old M12, 16 Gauge gun. Great light Grouse gun for the Pa woods, not selling mine, it stays, the ladies especially like using it, because it is so light to carry.

RGD/Dave

[steamer]

birddogger, thanks for the offer im looking for one with a mod. barrel . does anyone know if any were produced with a poly choke or are these aftermarket. that really makes them ugly.

[BigShooter]

Poly chokes were pretty much all after market. It'd be easiest to find one with a full choke & have it bored out by a competent gunsmith. Over dogs for upland game I shoot imp cyl almost exclusively.

[nj gsp]

From what I understand, the 2-9/16" chamber was the standard on the 16 gauge up until 1931 when Remington started chambering their autoloaders in 2-3/4". Remington also introduced a 2-3/4" 16 gauge round called the Auto-Express to go with them.

You can find 2-1/2" 16 gauge shells readily on the market, in brands such as Gamebore, RST, Polywad, and others. And no, you are not limited to paper shells, although they are still available. In fact, I just bought a case of RST 16 gauge papers in #7 - they smell nice when they go bang and pattern great. You will kill just as many birds with a 2-1/2" 16 gauge round as you will a 2-3/4".

It is generally not recommended to open a chamber to 2-3/4", especially in an auto or pump. It can be done, but from what I've read it invariably reduces the value of the gun, sometimes significantly.

And if I can recommend a resource for learning about all things 16 gauge, you will find tons of information over at http://www.16ga.com

[BigShooter]

It's pretty much a given that if a gun is collectible the value is diminished by modifications or refinishing. On the other hand there are lots of Model 16s out there. If you plan to use one as a shooter you'll likely be happier if you modify it as necessary to meet your needs.

[nj gsp]

It's pretty much a given that if a gun is collectible the value is diminished by modifications or refinishing. On the other hand there are lots of Model 16s out there. If you plan to use one as a shooter you'll likely be happier if you modify it as necessary to meet your needs.

Opening a chamber in a pump is a lot more complicated than in a double. Why spend the money if it's not necessary? For what it would cost to convert a pump gun you can go buy another already chambered in 2-3/4".

[BigShooter]

Opening a chamber in a pump is a lot more complicated than in a double. Why spend the money if it's not necessary? For what it would cost to convert a pump gun you can go buy another already chambered in 2-3/4".

In my post I only suggested having a choke opened up which I would consider doing for a gun I was planning to shoot a lot. Personally, I leave complications up to a gunsmith. However, if I was planning to buy a gun based upon having the chamber modified (or other work done), I'd talk with a trusted gunsmith about the advisability & the cost before I decided a certain purchase made sense. Maybe it's a mistake to think others would use what I consider to be common sense.