Buying first pistol

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DonF
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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by DonF » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:25 am

JWP58 wrote:
Southwind wrote:I know I probably shouldn't be asking this on a gun dog forum, but does anyone know if S&W changed their factory trigger group in the M&P? Before I left the police dept a couple years ago, I remember the LAPD banning its officers from carrying the M&P on duty or off because they had multiple fail to fire malfunctions caused by the trigger group. And these were on-duty malfunctions, not just at the range malfunctions.

I knew a couple guys that were buying them last year and the first thing they did was put aftermarket trigger assemblies in them. Ergonomically, the gun feels great in your hands. The M&P and the Springfield XD probably fit the hands of the greatest numbers of shooters the best. In my opinion, those two are in a class of their own for feel and pointability for a polymer framed double action only pistol.

My concern is that the documented LAPD malfunctions occurred 3-4yrs ago. I know up until even last year, they were still putting the same trigger in them and they might not have changed them yet.

How can S&W pride themselves on a weapon that they knowingly put faulty components in?

I know plenty of people that have them and swear by them, but I would not even consider one until I knew the trigger assembly had been modified by the manufacturer.
I have no idea, and have personally never had it occur or even heard about it. Most people whine about the accuracy of the 9mm's.

And I personally dont give to "BLANKS" what the LAPD thinks/does/says...
I can't imagine complaining about accuracy from a defense handgun. How accurate does one have to be at 15'?
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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by onuhunter02 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:55 am

If you are just using it for home defense and defense when you hunt with then I would go with a glock. They are a simple gun to shoot, you have the same trigger pull every time from first shot to last, they are virtually weather proof and require minimal maintenance. As far as caliber that will come down to preference do your research on what meets your needs. I have several glocks for be it work, home protection, personal protection in public and in the woods and love them. What I love about them is the trigger pull is the same no matter which one I pick up. The most important thing is get what fits you and practice, practice, practice and then practice more.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by WillieELk78GSP » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:38 pm

I am still looking for a pistol, I guess I am just being picky! Want one that fits my hand and is the best for the money!!
Thanks to everyone who responded have been checking out alot of the suggested guns!
Thanks
will
God Bless

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by roaniecowpony » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:16 am

Willie,
As you have found, there's lots of choices. I was a 1911 fan...no, more than that, I was a 1911 nut and gunsmith. I did 1911 work for years for many gunstores. I even made a couple compensated guns. My opinion is that they are great guns, but require a high level of proficiency and discipline to keep the gun in a consistent readiness condition that you train for (loaded chamber cocked locked, loaded chamber hammer down, or whatever you chose).

For my home gun, I had used 1911's for years. But after many years, I switched it to a revolver. I could not guarantee my wife could get a 1911 into action consistently from various readiness conditions. Her ability to use the gun was important as sometimes I travel for work or to hunt, leaving her home alone. Revolvers have two "conditions": loaded and unloaded. No special training or high level of proficiency is required other than occasional shooting. They are intuitively obvious to operate.

For my road gun, I used 1911's up until a few years ago when I was down to 2 1911 70 Series Gold Cup guns after selling many handguns off over the years. Both were nice and I didn't want to continue to abuse them on road trips. So I wanted another gun. I mentioned it to an old friend that has dozens of combat/self defense style guns and he gave me a Glock 40 cal. I didn't like the gun. It's a crappy heavy trigger single action in disguise, IMO. I read all the rags and when all was said and done, I couldn't find any organization that had done trials that bad mouthed a SIG gun. Nearly all had praise for reliability of them. My conclusion was that there were no better gun on the market in their category. I ended up buying a compact .40 cal SIG P 239 which is a double action first shot and single action after that. It was a pricey gun, but I've never regretted the choice. It works for me for an extra home gun, road gun, and a field gun when I hunt along the Mexican border. If I think I need a handgun for predator (lion, bear, etc) protection, I'll carry a larger caliber single action.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by jwnissen » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:21 pm

WillieELk78GSP wrote:I am still looking for a pistol, I guess I am just being picky! Want one that fits my hand and is the best for the money!!
Thanks to everyone who responded have been checking out alot of the suggested guns!
Thanks
will

What guns have you looked at? You are asking for advice on buying your first gun, maybe we can give you some more info on guns to look at if we know which ones you have already looked at. Also, were there any that you were leaning towards? Your statement, "the best one for the money" is a really broad statement. I would easily spend over $1000 for a Sig Sauer. But there are a lot of really good guns for half that. Its definitely a big decision buying your first handgun, you just need to decide what the primary use for that gun is; home defense, carry or just shooting at the range. There are guns that are a little better for each of these. Let us know what your thinking.

John

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by roaniecowpony » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:35 pm

WillieELk78GSP wrote:I will be buying my first pistol and had some questions, 1: i would like it for both home protection and protection while hunting, what caliber should i go with? And 2: what have you found to be the best pistol for the mony in the caliber you would talk about in the first question?

Thanks everyone

That line "...protection while hunting ..." has at least a couple different ways to interpret. If you're talking about protection from bears, that's not a home defense sized cartridge IMO.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by WillieELk78GSP » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:53 pm

jwnissen wrote:
WillieELk78GSP wrote:I am still looking for a pistol, I guess I am just being picky! Want one that fits my hand and is the best for the money!!
Thanks to everyone who responded have been checking out alot of the suggested guns!
Thanks
will

What guns have you looked at? You are asking for advice on buying your first gun, maybe we can give you some more info on guns to look at if we know which ones you have already looked at. Also, were there any that you were leaning towards? Your statement, "the best one for the money" is a really broad statement. I would easily spend over $1000 for a Sig Sauer. But there are a lot of really good guns for half that. Its definitely a big decision buying your first handgun, you just need to decide what the primary use for that gun is; home defense, carry or just shooting at the range. There are guns that are a little better for each of these. Let us know what your thinking.

John
Well lets see i have pretty much settled on 40 or 45 caliber and i think i want a semi auto, i have seriously considered the Glock 40 and the Springfield xd 40, and maybe smith and wesson. As for 45 still havent narrowed it down because i havent had many chances to shoot a 45
I want to keep it at 500 or less dollars, thanks for all the help man
God Bless

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by jwnissen » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:19 am

Are you just going to use it for going to the range? If you are looking for something to shoot and to take into the woods with you I would look at a 10mm. Both guns are really good guns. I have a preference to the XD because of the extra palm safety. The glock I have never liked because it doesnt fit my hand good. Both calibers are good, look at the one that is more readily available. It sucks buying a gun you cant find any ammo for. Good luck, it seems like you have a lot more thinking to do.

John

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by RayGubernat » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:18 pm

If you are going to get something for home defense, may I suggest a youth model 20ga pump action. Remington would be a good choice.

They come standard with about a 20" barrel and you can keep 4 rounds in the tube and nothing in the chamber, so it is pretty darn safe to leave behind a door. If you load it with #5 or 6 fine shot it is positively LETHAL at inside the house ranges. At 15-20 ft., the shot string will just about cut a man in two and it is a lot harder to miss with a shotgun than a pistol. But since it is loaded with birdshot, it will not penetrate two layers of sheet rock and kill someone in the next room accidentally, much less penetrate 1/2" of plywood and injure someone outside the house. There is also something about staring into the barrel of a shotgun that scares the bejabbers out of me. I think I am not alone in that. The nice part about a short barreled shotgun is that when all else fails, you have a darn nice club that will work like the long batons the Navy shore patrol used to carry.

I am no lawyer, but God forbid you actually have to use it an live in one of those states where they like to prosecute victims who defend themselves, it will be awful hard, I think, for them to prove intent to kill if the gun was loaded with birdshot.

I bought an S&W Model 19 revolver in 357 magnum with a 6" barrel many years ago and never needed anything else. You can shoot 38 Specials in reduced velocity loads, like wadcutters, and it is actually a lot of fun to shoot. Pretty accurate and easy to shoot. The lead wadcutter reloads USED to be cheap too. Hopefully they will be again.

As a self defense weapon, revolvers have one HUGE advantage over any semi auto. No need to clear a revolver. They do not jam and if there is a misfire, all you need to do is pull the trigger again. A full power load with a hollow point will tear off just about any body part it hits so it qualifies high on the list as a self defense round.

In the field with a solid, you may not stop a grizzly, but you are darn sure gonna slow it waaaay down...and you have four or five more. They also make 38 rat shot loads...not real wonderful on the barrel, but they will do a snake or skunk or possum very nicely without blowing holes in the wall of the quail coop.

RayG

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by JWP58 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:39 pm

RayGubernat wrote:If you are going to get something for home defense, may I suggest a youth model 20ga pump action. Remington would be a good choice.

They come standard with about a 20" barrel and you can keep 4 rounds in the tube and nothing in the chamber, so it is pretty darn safe to leave behind a door. If you load it with #5 or 6 fine shot it is positively LETHAL at inside the house ranges. At 15-20 ft., the shot string will just about cut a man in two and it is a lot harder to miss with a shotgun than a pistol. But since it is loaded with birdshot, it will not penetrate two layers of sheet rock and kill someone in the next room accidentally, much less penetrate 1/2" of plywood and injure someone outside the house. There is also something about staring into the barrel of a shotgun that scares the bejabbers out of me. I think I am not alone in that. The nice part about a short barreled shotgun is that when all else fails, you have a darn nice club that will work like the long batons the Navy shore patrol used to carry.

I am no lawyer, but God forbid you actually have to use it an live in one of those states where they like to prosecute victims who defend themselves, it will be awful hard, I think, for them to prove intent to kill if the gun was loaded with birdshot.

I bought an S&W Model 19 revolver in 357 magnum with a 6" barrel many years ago and never needed anything else. You can shoot 38 Specials in reduced velocity loads, like wadcutters, and it is actually a lot of fun to shoot. Pretty accurate and easy to shoot. The lead wadcutter reloads USED to be cheap too. Hopefully they will be again.

As a self defense weapon, revolvers have one HUGE advantage over any semi auto. No need to clear a revolver. They do not jam and if there is a misfire, all you need to do is pull the trigger again. A full power load with a hollow point will tear off just about any body part it hits so it qualifies high on the list as a self defense round.

In the field with a solid, you may not stop a grizzly, but you are darn sure gonna slow it waaaay down...and you have four or five more. They also make 38 rat shot loads...not real wonderful on the barrel, but they will do a snake or skunk or possum very nicely without blowing holes in the wall of the quail coop.

RayG
For the love of all that is Holy, if you read that post ^^^^^^^^^^^ please forget it immediately. Its garbage gun shop B.S.

Birdshot is meant for birds, aka very thin skinned animals. Not for self defense purposes. Fact is you'll be lucky to penetrate half an inch past clothing if they are wearing anything more than a cotton t-shirt. Shot string cutting a man in half???? Are you serious???....Its got to be a joke. Go do some research and stop spewing nonsense that could get someone killed.

I wont even get started on the "prove intent" comment.......

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by roaniecowpony » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:34 am

JWP has a flare for melodrama, but I think he may be correct. I would feel much better armed with such a combination than with a kitchen knife, but I'd be pointing such a setup at an intruders face to stop his assault and blind him. It's just not a reliable stopping weapon with a center mass shot at much over a couple yards from what I've read on the subject.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by S&J gsp » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:51 am

If I were looking to buy my first pistol I would have to buy a 357 magnum. Nothing against the calaibers you chosen but with a 357 you can go down to 125 grain bullets all the way up to 200 grain bullets it will take any game animal I would hunt with a handgun. Any major brand with a 4-6 inch barrel will do anything nessary. I mean I personally wouldn't hunt grizzly bear or moose with one.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by roaniecowpony » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:49 am

Willie,
With the exception of the SIG I bought a year and a half ago, I've been out of the handgun market for so long I don't know what all might be out there in .40 and .45 that falls under $500. Setting a $500 cap may drive you to secondhand guns. I see nothing wrong with that. But, you might also consider a DA first shot/SA auto. Some people don't like them due to the change in trigger pulls from the first shot to the follow up shots. But it does help me get past the eebee jeebees and concerns of my wife (or me) getting the safety off when leaving a single action auto around the house in the cocked and locked (chambered round, hammer cocked, safety on) mode. For a one person home, it's fine to do a SA cocked and locked, but not for a multi-person use home defense gun unless there are well drilled ground rules and high proficiency with all concerned.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by JWP58 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:11 pm

roaniecowpony wrote:JWP has a flare for melodrama, but I think he may be correct. I would feel much better armed with such a combination than with a kitchen knife, but I'd be pointing such a setup at an intruders face to stop his assault and blind him. It's just not a reliable stopping weapon with a center mass shot at much over a couple yards from what I've read on the subject.

No melodrama, just tired of reading the same b.s. heard in crappy gunshops across America.....

by all means use birdshot when your life and your families life depends on stopping a threat......let me know how that works out for you.
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Post by crazyboy » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:30 pm

XD45 would be a good choice.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by birddogger » Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:17 pm

I agree that "cutting a man in half" is an exaggeration. However, a shotgun loaded with " bird shot" at close range (4 to 5yrds.) Would be more than sufficient for stopping an attack and you have more shots available if needed. Forget the penetration, the blunt force trauma alone would stop the attack. Also, keep in mind, it is hard to hit a target under extreme stress with a handgun,even at very close range. Also, I believe pointing a shotgun at an intruder would stop him in his tracks 99.9 percent of the time. Having said that, I still prefer a hand gun for home defense because I can keep it more available at all times.

As a side note, I had a friend who was killed instantly a few years ago from a single shot to the chest by his mentally disturbed son with a 12ga. loaded with "bird shot" at close range in his home.
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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by jwnissen » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:17 pm

JWP58 wrote:
roaniecowpony wrote:JWP has a flare for melodrama, but I think he may be correct. I would feel much better armed with such a combination than with a kitchen knife, but I'd be pointing such a setup at an intruders face to stop his assault and blind him. It's just not a reliable stopping weapon with a center mass shot at much over a couple yards from what I've read on the subject.

No melodrama, just tired of reading the same b.s. heard in crappy gunshops across America.....

by all means use birdshot when your life and your families life depends on stopping a threat......let me know how that works out for you.
I sell guns and I partially agree with you. The biggest reason I tell people that is because 00 and 000 buck will go through walls and most people looking for home defense weapons have kids in the house. I dont care who you are or how big you are, birdshot will ruin your night and is less likely to go through the walls. Experienced people like most of us on the site are aware of our surroundings, most people i sell guns to for home defense, are not. Another thing, from a lawyers standpoint, some states have weird laws about shooting people in your house especially with ammunition that is intended to kill or mame. Which is why most hollow points have some kind of wording about personal defense. Those bullets are to defend yourself and easier to justify using them in court. Personally, i want them dead, but that doesnt change anything with the lawyers. Shoot someone with birdshot in a gun you hunt with, then court will be a lot faster and easier on you.. Just my opinion talking from both perspectives.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by birddogger » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:32 pm

Just to be clear, I don't want to sound like a paranoid nut case, but in the type of work I have done in the past years, I have made some enemies. All of which are psycopaths. I don't expect to ever have a problem or have the need for a firearm for protection. But I still want to be and am prepared to protect my family and myself if the unthinkable should ever happen.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:05 am

WillieELk78GSP wrote:Well lets see i have pretty much settled on 40 or 45 caliber and i think i want a semi auto, i have seriously considered the Glock 40 and the Springfield xd 40, and maybe smith and wesson. As for 45 still havent narrowed it down because i havent had many chances to shoot a 45
I want to keep it at 500 or less dollars, thanks for all the help man

If, you are still looking then the S&W pistol would have the advantage of a .22 companion for practice.
Others may as well but it could be a consideration.
My daughter tried several and settled on the .40 S&W M&P a few years ago...but she is left-handed and that played into the decision.
I still think a revolver is tough to beat but they seldom make new shooters go all giggly and one must like any choice to shoot it well.

As to both home defense and hunting protection...if no one else is home then dual use may be ok but a scattergun is tough to beat within a home, with a handgun getting the nod elsewhere.
Personally, taking a home defense weapon out and about rather than leaving it in a fixed location may one day find it not at hand....I would go the route of two weapons.

Cartouches for the defense scattergun run the gamut but one is seldom rendered helpless with only some field loads.
Lot of Walter Mitty types who imagine standing off some angry hordes are advising protection choices...sift the Internet BS well.
Commonsense leads to the best decisions.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by roaniecowpony » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:10 pm

A caliber change in an auto typically involves a whole top end (slide, barrel, recoil spring/guide assy) and the magazine.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:59 am

While caliber conversions can be an option, a separate companion .22 has long been a sound idea.
From the old Colt Ace and Service Ace to the S&W M&P .22 and, my own choice, the S&W Model 18.
It enables both less expensive practice, a likelihood of a greater familiarity of handgun systems from safetys on and gives the xtra plus of a .22 on general principles.
More expensive certainly but often a very sound idea over the long run.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by roaniecowpony » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:42 am

I'd love to have a real Ace. They're pricey these days. But from a practical standpoint, they aren't very accurate compared to other fixed barrel .22 autos. But the fun factor is high. There's been a few .22 conversions for the 1911 over the years. The Kart conversion was a zoomie looking one, but is suffered from reliability problems. There is a Kimber conversion now and the Marvel conversion. http://www.americanrifleman.org/article ... sion-kits/ There may be more, but I haven't been digging around for one.

I've always had a soft spot for a S&W "kit gun" on a J frame. Never owned one, but I would probably pick one up if one came along.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:49 am

I had a 4" rd bt Kit Gun back in the 70s....fine little jewel of a revolver.
It is one handgun that I wish I had never sold.
The 32 frame offers little grip but for it's purpose...tough to best.

The Service Ace was considered an improvement but I expect there were limits.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by roaniecowpony » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:21 am

My idea of fun handgun shooting usually involves a .22. I don't do it much anymore since I got dogs. Maybe I'll pick up a kit gun to have around after I retire.

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Re: Buying first pistol

Post by WillieELk78GSP » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:45 pm

OK y'all I finally bought a pistol S&W 357, wasn't what I wanted but its a great shooting gun. And I got it for a steal!!!

Thanks everyone for your opinions and all the info on guns you provided me.
Will
God Bless

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