Conceal & Carry Handguns

portsider44 · Post by **portsider44** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:51 am

I have decided its time for me to get my conceal & carry permit. SO I am in the market for a new handgun & holster.

Right now I am leaning towards the Taurus Millennium Pro 140 (40 S&W) or the 145 in 45acp. Will there be much of a noticable recoil differnce in the 40 or 45? In the past I owned a HK USP 40 & really liked it but it was a little large for a CCW, plus I hated the 10lb DA trigger.

I also looked at the Glock 27 but really didn't like the way it fit in my hand.

Sorno · Post by **Sorno** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:05 pm

I have been selling guns with my father since I was 16. The best advice I can give to anybody is try as many different styles and calibers you can before you buy. Ask yourself what do I want and what do I need?

From what I have seen in the last few years the quality of Taurus has gone down.

What price range for a pistol are you looking for?

portsider44 · Post by **portsider44** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:28 am

I am looking in the $300-$600 range.

rkalgren · Post by **rkalgren** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:34 am

You can get a new Glock for around $525. They come in the calibers you are looking for and are very reliable. I personally like the Glock 23 in 40 cal., it is small and easy to disassemble/assemble for cleaning.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:39 am

Beretta or Glock.

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:16 pm

Lucky duck. I live in Illinois. 'Nuff said.

portsider44 · Post by **portsider44** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:29 am

Thanks for the suggeestions, still looking around but right now I am leaning towards the Springfield XD40C.

THey don't have the proven record of the Glocks but I really like features & size. They have the trigger safety like the Glocks along with a grip safety like the 1911s.

Haven't got to handle one yet but hope to this weekend if any of the gun shops here in town have one.

tnbirddogman · Post by **tnbirddogman** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:06 pm

I was in the same situation you are in. I looked at the Springfield XD's, Glocks and even some Sig's. I looked at different calibers as well. I finally chose a .380 made by Bersa. If you ar fighting the battle of the bulge like I am, its hard to conceal a bulky weapon. And as far as felt recoil the.380 cant be beat. I shot a conpact Glock in .45 the other day and the recoil was brutal, same with the .40. This is just from my personal experience, and i hope this helps you. By the way the Bersa is half the price of the Glocks and mine has worked flawlessly.

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:11 pm

Glock 23 here, love it.

Virgil · Post by **Virgil** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:25 pm

I carry a Kimber full size 1911 in .45
Ya, it's not the smalles thing in the world, but a little bulge never hurt anyone

I have a small of the back holster that I really like and conceals it pretty well.
I have some custom rattle snake grips I made for it and the biggest thing, if I ever had to use it, I'm confident with it and know I can use it well.
That's the most important thing to me.
I sure wouldn't want a gun I was unsure of just because it was small enough to fit somewhere.
Been carrying it daily for 6 years and no issues at all.

gone · Post by **gone** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:32 am

Ditto on what Sorno said above, if there is a local range that rents guns go down & spend some time & money on shooting various models.

If you are going with the XD why not get a 45acp. The price is the same & you get more rounds (14 vs 12) with the larger caliber. They aren't hard to conceal with the right holster either. I carry a 9mm in the 4" (service) model in an IWB holster everyday & it conceals very well. The 9mm 40 & 45 cal 4" models are all basically the same size with the 45 being a little (not even noticeable really) larger. I have had my XD for 2-1/2 years now & really really like it. I am hoping to get a .45 in the next little while.

I will not put Glocks down they are great guns with a great reputation, but the differance in the grip angle from a Glock to an XD is unreal. The XD is much more comfortable & natural to shoot in my opinion. I am sure that the hardcore Glock guys will disagree which is fine.

ohiogsp · Post by **ohiogsp** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:48 pm

I have a xd with the light and it is sweet!

markj · Post by **markj** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:51 pm

The .40 is a higher velocity round and has a sharper recoil IMHO the .45 is slower and has a easier recoil to me, I shoot a Springer 1911 in .45, I do have a taurus 9mm the mil pro model it is very accurate and easily concealed. My ruger gp100 with 3 in barrel is also easily concealed and it rocks. All are very accurate, 9mms are less expensive to shoot.

gone · Post by **gone** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:54 pm

markj wrote:9mms are less expensive to shoot.

I love my 9mm for that reason. I can get 100 rounds for $11-12.

bigun · Post by **bigun** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:01 pm

Are you stuck on an auto? My CCW gun is a S&W 642 airweight in .38spl. I like wheel guns for CCW because of their reliability, their narrower profile, and 38 spl packs a pretty good amount of energy for such a small package. I carry my HK .40 everyday as my primary but if I am only carrying 1 gun I can grab my .38 and stick it in a pocket holster. The other nice thing about this setup is that if the situation arises I can have it pointed at someone while it is still in my pocket and I appear completely non threatening, Looks like I am just standing with my hand in my pocket.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:34 pm

I always operated on the premis that you don't point a gun at anything you don't plan on shooting. Using the gun as a deterent sounds good to me but for it to work that way it has to be visable. Sure hope their aren't too many running around with a gun pointed at someone while still in a pocket.

Ezzy

GsPJustin · Post by **GsPJustin** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:36 am

LOL, a conceat and carry permit? You have to go through like a 10 year process to try and buy a gun hear. California to much said!

Donnerhund GWP · Post by **Donnerhund GWP** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:34 am

Don't get too hung-up on caliber. Handguns, as a rule, are not good man stoppers! Ask any officer who has had a shoot-out with a meth-head.
Get something you can shoot comfortably and accurately. You need to be able to hit center-of-mass consistently out to about 10-15 yards. Though you may (hopefully) never have to.
Practice, practice, practice.
Learn to load/reload in the dark.
Buy economical practice ammo, but carry quality ammo.
Remember, in a stressful situation, you will shoot the way you practice. What I mean is, if you practice stopping to put an empty mag in your pocket, you will likely do the same under stress. Let 'em fall!

It's difficult to recommend 1 hand gun for every situation.
I carry a Glock 23 .40SW at work. Very reliable. Remarkably accurate.
I aslo like my Kimber .45ACP Custom Compact. It's a heavy CCW but offers the benefit of a large, heavy bullet. Conceals O.K. in cooler weather.
For warm weather I carry a Kel-tec P-32. Fits nicely into pants pocket. Inexpensive gun, I think I paid $200? The .32ACP is a very light round plan on emptying the entire magazine.
I like Night Sights. They're great for quick sight acquisition in low light situations

bigun · Post by **bigun** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:35 am

ezzy333 wrote:I always operated on the premis that you don't point a gun at anything you don't plan on shooting. Using the gun as a deterent sounds good to me but for it to work that way it has to be visable. Sure hope their aren't too many running around with a gun pointed at someone while still in a pocket.

Ezzy

I guess I subscribe to a different school. I won't point any gun at something I am not willing to shoot, however That being said the pocket gun has never been pointed at anyone, Ive never been that unfortunate in my personal life. However in some circumstances the element of surprise is deffinitly an advantage. If you are looking for intimidation then by all means carry a monster. People become real compliant when they see a big auto. The serious difference is that in my training a concealed gun is for geting you out of a sticky situation in a hurry. Fire some rounds to defend your life and get away. Thats the reason that I want surprise on my side.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:28 am

Donnerhund

I have never seen a man standing after getting hit with a 45 cal. Even saw a man get hit in the hand and it flattened him on the spot. The discription I have been told is it is like getting hit with a sledge hammer. Problem with them is they aren't real accurate but at short distances they do fine.

I hear what you are saying Bigun but just never put myself in a situation where I felt I needed to intimidate. Surprise is a key element but I felt that pulling the gun into plain view was surprise enough in most cases. I am for CC but hopefully the people will use discretion and common sense and not use it to impress someone else. No one has ever known when or if I carry. Hope it stays that way.

Ezzy

littleking · Post by **littleking** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:02 pm

glock: perfection (i carry a g17)

if you have the money, NOTHING beats a hk p7

Donnerhund GWP · Post by **Donnerhund GWP** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:49 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Donnerhund

I have never seen a man standing after getting hit with a 45 cal. Even saw a man get hit in the hand and it flattened him on the spot.

Yes, and he was probably clean and sober! Some of our guys had a shoot out in a motel room a while back with a dirt-bag who was full of Meth. I think the final count was something like 16 9MM hits and he was still shooting at us. The dept went to .40s after that.
People on drugs often don't feel pain no matter how big the holes are! Slow him down with a double tap to the chest. Then try for a shot to the ocular cavity.
The .45ACP makes nice a big hole, the .40SW make a longer(deeper) wound channel. It's a ballistic trade-off.

2 to the body, 1 to the head.

Bowbldr · Post by **Bowbldr** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:27 pm

I bet most people regret their choice of concealed weapon after the "newness" wears off. People pick the gun they want to shoot, target practice and plink with... not carry.

1st it has to be completely reliable. That still means wheel gun in my opinion.

2nd. light enough so it becomes part of you, not something you have to constantly adjust for. This mean the smallest, lightest weight you can afford.

3d. No hammer, you can shoot through coat pocket and still have a second shot.

4th. And least. Accuracy and caliber. You'll never shoot more that a few feet away except in practice. At least you'd better not or you'll be spending time in jail yourself.

Hammerless, light wt. Smith and Wesson .38 relvolver is the way to go.

highcotton · Post by **highcotton** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:24 pm

About one week in each month I work in a area where I carry. I have shot hand guns as an off season hobby for years. I am a big 1911 fan. My carry piece is a govt model springfield that has been chopped to commander length. I use a Cramer IWB holster. I load 10 gr. of AA #5 with Sierra 185 gr jhp bullets

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:58 pm

Wise man once told me that the best gun for concealed carry is the one that you will actually carry.
There are a lot of excellent guns out there, but if you get a 45 or a 40 that's simply uncomfortable or too bulky to carry - sure, it might have the stopping power, but it doesn't do much good when you keep leaving it at home.

With that said, a friend of mine has a Keltec 380. Not big, but really, really easy to carry. That's the kind of gun I would personally consider. It doesn't have the same stopping power, but still probably enough to convince most of the attackers you might encounter that they'd be better off attacking someone else.

Oldfarmer · Post by **Oldfarmer** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:27 am

I chose the S&W model 360 over all the autos. I want the first shot to be all that is necessary and I trust the .357 to take care of that far better than the .9's or .40's or even the .45's. I don't expect to impress anyone with the number of shots I'm able to touch off, but rather the job done by the first shot that stikes it's mark.

Don · Post by **Don** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:41 am

I shouldn't get in here because I'm not a big handgun nut. But I have carried, in a lot of places where it wasn't recommended. I've carried several different guns, my favorite was a 357 Colt Trooper 4" in a highrise thumb break pancake holster. The loads were 125gr JHP's, 38 spec loads as hot as I could get them without locking the cylinder. The gun was much more handleable with 38 spec's and with 125gr JHP's, deadly! I understand you shouldn't use handloaded JHP's in a concelled carry gun as it seem's you were looking for trouble. Maybe so but just why are you carring concelled in the first place? I would want every advantage I could give myself. OOP'S, I said deadly! If your not willing to carry as deadly a weapon as you can hide and handle well, you might as well not carry at all.

A few comments. It serves no usefull to carry a larger cartridge if you can't use it well and are really not ready to use it. Quite a difference between shooting at paper and tin cans and a human being. Especially a human being that's shooting back!

Someone mentioned ranges up to 15 yds. I doubt the confrontation has really begun at 15yds; at least not that you'd recognize. You may still have a better option to avoid a gun fight you probally really aren't prepared to enter. 15 yds may well warrent a display tho with the understanding you'd now better be ready to follow thru. If the confrontation begins at say 5 yds, few will have the ability to recognize it AND respond in time. People that carry concelled should do a great deal of serious practice with the gun they carry and should be in the best physical shape they can get in; you may have to fight a bit befor you can shoot. And while reloading fast is nice, I would guess that in the vast majority of cases the situtation will end within 6 shots or less, someone either dead or the assailent running away. I doubt that a jury would look on you favorably if you put your three good shots in to the bad guy's back!

The use of lethal force is highly suspect in the eye's of many, even if it's in self defence. They'd much prefer you wait until the danger is past and call a cop. That never help's at the time of attack. This is very serious stuff we're talking about here. I think everybody should be allowed to carry concelled and I think that training programs should be readily avaliable thru out the country in the use of those weapons. The problem is, the bad guy that can't get a permit will carry a weapon anyway, even if it's a knife.

bean1031 · Post by **bean1031** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:17 pm

no affence to any one but why are you wanting a conceled weapon?

Don · Post by **Don** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:42 pm

I have been into some of the most God awful he** holes in the U.S. And at 3am in these places, cop's are not very abundant. What is abundant is crime. Resist without a means of protecting yourself and you could well end up dead. Don't resist and you could still end up dead. Given the choice, I would like the opertunity to fight back on at least equal terms. Not given the choice, I will arm myself anyway.If the bad boy want's to bring a knife, so be it, I have a gun. If he leaves me alone, that is a wise choice and he'll never find out I have a gun. It is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six!

In most areas of this country I think the need to carry is greatly overplayed, to often by individuals that are not very proficent with the arms they carry. But the bad guys know they are there and will avoid them. If you don't think a guy can shoot and he's shooting at you, let me remind you of something. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes! Not much different than leaving on the yard light at night. Given the option of a house to rob, one with a yard light and one without, they'll take the one without the light every time. Were I a bad guy, so would I.

An armed society is a kinder and gentler society.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:25 pm

Bean,

Concealed weapons are for protection while not upsetting the part of our population that don't understand or know how to use guns.

Ezzy

nj gsp · Post by **nj gsp** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:13 pm

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

Just about the only people who carry handguns concealed here in New Jermany are police and the crooks.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:21 pm

I didn't realize how good we had it in Florida until I started reading about the gun laws in other states. Massachusetts in particular. Almost seems like a crime to own a gun in that state.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:27 pm

Our governor and several newly elected senators in IL have stated just that. They want a gun free state. There are some senators in Wqashington that want the country gun free, We all need to be aware.

Ezzy

Hasty · Post by **Hasty** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:11 am

I'm on the fence right now between a Ruger sp101 in .38/.357 and a compact Glock probably in .40. One of the salesmen at my local gun shop said that the best guns to carry for self defense are the snub nosed ones. He said that a lot of the time that if a situation occurs it will be up close and not against multiple targets as in a law enforcement situation with multiple people involved. He also said that smaller guns come in to play faster, don't have too much length for someone to grab to take the weapon and that a revolver will go off no matter what even if it's being held from the top, unlike ane auto pistol. Is this B.S., or good advice to consider before a purchase? Almost without a doubt I'll never have to use the thing but if I need it, I'll need it bad. What would be the best choice? Should I try them both and get the one that I shoot better?

Billy Ray · Post by **Billy Ray** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:32 am

Hasty wrote:I'm on the fence right now between a Ruger sp101 in .38/.357 and a compact Glock probably in .40. One of the salesmen at my local gun shop said that the best guns to carry for self defense are the snub nosed ones. He said that a lot of the time that if a situation occurs it will be up close and not against multiple targets as in a law enforcement situation with multiple people involved. He also said that smaller guns come in to play faster, don't have too much length for someone to grab to take the weapon and that a revolver will go off no matter what even if it's being held from the top, unlike ane auto pistol. Is this B.S., or good advice to consider before a purchase? Almost without a doubt I'll never have to use the thing but if I need it, I'll need it bad. What would be the best choice? Should I try them both and get the one that I shoot better?

Get the Glock and don't listen to the idiot salesman. Maybe you should ask him to try and hold the slide shut on an auto when it's fired and see how much good it does his hand.

Oldfarmer · Post by **Oldfarmer** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:16 am

The "won't go off" part is BS. But, I would take the .357mag over a .40 hands down. If you ever have to use the gun, you want the first shot to do the job and that is where you are far better off in my opinion with the Ruger, in this case over the Glock. If you want to make a bunch of bangs, because it will sound cool, then by all means buy the Glock.

Billy Ray · Post by **Billy Ray** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:48 am

Oldfarmer wrote: If you want to make a bunch of bangs, because it will sound cool, then by all means buy the Glock.

:roll:

Danro · Post by **Danro** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:03 pm

Don't worry too much with caliber of the weapon either. The .22 caliber kills more people each year than any other caliber. So it's not important to have a real beffy caliber as much as having a gun that you are comfortable shooting and can shoot accurately.

Hasty · Post by **Hasty** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:45 pm

So far it looks to be about 50/50 on opinions. There's no way I'd use a .22 for C.C., I get your point though. I have had a .22 revolver for years to knock coons out of the trees. I think could do more damage with my bare hands. I have shot both the calibers with other peoples guns and was able to hit what I wanted without much thought of the recoil. Capacity isn't that important to me b/c if something ever happened I'd probably just try to get out of harms way and run.

Don · Post by **Don** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:10 pm

If I was a hit man I'd have a 22. As for the SP101 or the Glock. I'd go with the SP101 and shoot hot 38 spec's in it. As for stopping the action by grabbing it, I don't know about the auto loader but I guarentee it will fire one round. With a cylinder gun, grab the cylinder and squeeze and the gun can't fire. But the important thing is that if the assailent is that close, you got more problems than which gun to carry. That's why I say, get in shape because there may well be a fight befor any shooting start's.

If the assailent is say 5 to 6 yds from you befor he/she makes intentions known, you may think your Wyatt Earps's little brother "bleep" but you'll probably find out that to identify the threat and react, you won't be able to do it. Your much better fending off the initial attack, with MTY hands, and hopefully knocking down the assailent which then does give you time to draw your weapon.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:28 pm

I have a S&W model 60 357 with a 3" barrel. I don't really like carrying it, but then I'm usually wearing shorts and a t-shirt, so it's tough to conceal it or carry it with any degree of comfort. Given the right clothing, it would probably make a fine carry weapon.

It's probably pretty comparable in size and weight to an SP101 - I couldn't shoot those Rugers worth a "bleep", but that was probably just something about me that didn't work well with them - I don't know. Anyway - it ain't a gun you'll want to do a lot of target shooting with. With .38 rounds, it's not too bad, but when you're using .357 rounds, you can sure feel it!

Don · Post by **Don** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:33 pm

phermes1 wrote: With .38 rounds, it's not too bad, but when you're using .357 rounds, you can sure feel it!

And that is exactly why I choose light fast bullet's in 38 Spec from a 357 frame gun.

Oldfarmer · Post by **Oldfarmer** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:57 pm

The little .22 sure has it's place. I have one in each vehicle that I drive. They also fit in any pocket undetected. I'm not comfortable that they are really enough when you want and need a real CCW though. But they are sure better than nothing in that case, and they can come in quite handy for other purposes. Then when I'm out on the farm I usually have a Dan Wesson .445 near by. The first and sometimes second shell is bird shot and then they get more powerful. Good for everything from snakes at 4 feet to big things at 100+ yards.

Highbrass · Post by **Highbrass** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:20 pm

In my opinion, the most important issue when selecting a CC weapon is how well you can use it.

If you can't hit the target, your just making noise. Which does serve a purpose, but may not be enough.

I carry a XD9C in a CompTac IWB. I picked a 9mm because I can shoot it well all around (strong side, weak side, etc). I can also put more rounds on target faster from 2' to 15 meters.

You can get caught up in all the "what ifs", but if you can't hit the target your should carry a knife.

huntoverlabs · Post by **huntoverlabs** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:06 pm

no affence to any one but why are you wanting a conceled weapon?

I have been a victim of crime including staring down the barrel of a murderers gun while it was pointed at my head in my own apartment many years ago. I refuse to be a victim and chose to be proactive about my own well-being.

OhioOnPoint · Post by **OhioOnPoint** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:00 am

I have a SIG P226 Homeland Security Model with DAK trigger in 40 cal. Super sweet, but a little large for summertime concealment. For a small carry gun I like a S&W .38 +p 5 shot revolver with a hip grip.

Rodger · Post by **Rodger** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:28 am

For a small carry gun I like a S&W .38 +p 5 shot revolver with a hip grip.

I have several nice auto’s, but I’m with you on a CC gun. Mine is the 5 shot S&W 38 with +P silvertips. I hope to God I never have to use it, but if my life is on the line I want something that will go BANG when I pull the trigger. No safety to remember, jacking the slide or potential for a stovepipe. That delay or mishandle might get you killed.

Rodger

HOBO · Post by **HOBO** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:18 am

Conceal is a the biggest problem I have faced.
Most guns are just to big and the little ones, NAA are not very effective.

I am not sure I would not look at thin short revolvers. Most are 38's and are effective in thin frame but still are large for carry type in concealed.
I have a glock 19, 26, NAA 22 mag, and a 31-1 Smith revolver as well as a 22 lr in short barrel.

I know the Smith revolver is less effective but I still like it.
Carry glock in vechile and mix others as carry weapons.

Good luck with the conceal part.

mtlee · Post by **mtlee** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:06 pm

Anybody have any experience w/ the Beretta Tomcat .32? I just got my CWP in the mail and am looking at getting a smaller pistol. I've got a XD .40, but its a little to big to conceal. That little Beretta seems pretty sweet and its actually what my instructor carried. Any thoughts?

Don · Post by **Don** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:49 am

I'm not sure what 32 your talking about but I wouldn't intentionally get any 32 for concelled carry. I have a 32 short and a 32 long, both woefully underpowered. There's also a 32 colt and I think a 32 mag that I know nothing about.

But when you carry, you need a cartridge that will stop a drugged up bad guy at very close range. Bullet placement is improtant but in this situtation a bullet that will slow the attack and give you time for another shot is far better. I would not use anything less than a 38 spec with wadcutter type bullets. Actually when I did carry, I used a Colt Trooper 4" in 357 and loaded hot 125gr bullets in 38 spec cases. I think they advise against handloads but I advise against dieing!

If you ever have occassion to pull a concelled weapon, which is doubtfull, you don't really have to worry about the mugger that just wants your watch. The sight of a gun will run him off. On the other hand if it's some drug addict that needs a few bucks for a fix and he's on then, he probably won't care about your gun and those guy's are known to be hard to stop. That's the guy you carry for. That guy needs a much heavier bullet in a bigger case.

The trade off to carry a gun like that is it will be bigger and harder to hide. But that is the gun to bet your life on, not any 32!