Gun Dog Forum

I am most excited about the prospect of starting out dove hunting with a nice retriever. I figure if the shotgunner can master doves, he can master anything on the wing.
I reckon skeet is the best practice for the dove hunter because 8 stations present all the possible dove field angles including the "devil" stations, 4 and 8.

To me, a master dove hunter can consistently harvest a daily limit without opening more than a single box of shells. A good dog
will ensure more down birds are actually recovered too.

I feel the 12-ga, 3" chamber autoloader is the best all-around gun for the fellow who pursues feathered game and small fur-bearing
game, varmints and deer where he must use a shotgun. It is virtually the "30-06" of shotguns as the Labrador Retriever is the
"30 06" of hunting dogs.

This 12-ga. 3-inch packs plenty of punch for most scattergunning and the virtues of gas operation are soothing to the shooting shoulder
and cheek bone.

I am really torn between the Mossberg Model 930 and one of the Remington classics like the Model 1100 or 11-87.
These guns' gas mechanism should instantly adapt from light target loads to heavy hunting loads without any fuss.

I have just read a couple of places that the Remington 11-87 patterns low, Remington won't correct it under warranty and I don't like that awkward
trigger guard safety. I like Mossberg's safety under my thumb.

The classic Model 1100 is plagued with that same horrible guard safety and I don't know if it shoots any straighter than the 11-87.

I would really like to buy an American gun under $1,000.

There are many available if not new then used. The Remington's are all good guns and I think you will find the safety is fine no matter the location if you are use to it. At least that is what I have found.

Beretta A300

You certainly stacked a lot of kindling in that post.

My 11-87 did not shoot "low" but it did have other issues...however, many like 'em.
The 1100 is a better scattergun, to me.

Personally, I prefer "fuss" for the same reason I do not like white socks, blaze orange caps or any '06 of birddogs.....otherwise, one simply misses too much of what is of value, again, to me.

Rock soild Winchester MD 12 in 16ga.

Sorry...is there a question in there?

While we all are expressing our thoughts I never found a need for a 3 inch shell in a 12 gauge other than duck or goose hunting and even then it is nice but not necessary. I do most of my hunting with a 20 gauge and seldom use a 3 inch shell. Occasionally I do try to keep onr as the third shell but I haven't used that 3rd shot once in the past three years. I seldom use the second shot when hunting upland.

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:While we all are expressing our thoughts I never found a need for a 3 inch shell in a 12 gauge other than duck or goose hunting and even then it is nice but not necessary. I do most of my hunting with a 20 gauge and seldom use a 3 inch shell. Occasionally I do try to keep onr as the third shell but I haven't used that 3rd shot once in the past three years. I seldom use the second shot when hunting upland.

Ezzy

The 3" chamber can handle 2 2/4" shells as well. Most autoloaders are going to be a 3" chamber anyway. Besides, the uplands,
I have ducks, varmints and other game in mind as well. I may go on a hound-driven whitetail deer hunt in the South someday
where only scatterguns are permitted for safety reasons.

RickB wrote:Sorry...is there a question in there?

No, does there need to be?

OK, you asked for one: what is the BEST American-made shotgun for under 1000 bucks?

JonBailey wrote: No, does there need to be?

No, of course not I just tend to not offer opinion unless I am asked... just how my folks raised me. You seemed pretty settled on things, so, I figured you got a system that works for you. No need for me to rock the boat if I disagreed.

As for shotguns, I am nearly ignorant. For me, better to be thought a fool than to open my mouth and remove all doubt.

RickB

Nitrex

Beretta a300 as well. I just bought one and love it. Shot great out of the box and super easy to disassemble and clean.

Rich k- you havethe a300?

I just bought a A300 as well haven't got to shoot it yet but points really well and balanced well to me I looked at all semi autos under 1000 and the beretta was the the one for me.the remington versamax was a close second but I really wanted wood stocks not synthetic

JonBailey wrote:

RickB wrote:Sorry...is there a question in there?

No, does there need to be?

OK, you asked for one: what is the BEST American-made shotgun for under 1000 bucks?

You could say under $10,000 and the answer will still be the same. Remington 870. I have put mine through heck and everytime I pull the trigger it goes bang. If I am shooting horrible I always go back to old reliable. The 870 is like taking the ugly girl to the prom, you wont get a lot of compliments, but you are going to have a lot more fun.

Remington 1100, I have been shooting my grandpas for my entire life, its a 1970s gun and it shoots just as straight as my mossberg does. The trigger safety isn't that big of a deal IMO. also you can find real nice used ones for well under a 1000 dollars. just my two cents.

llewellinsetter wrote:Remington 1100, I have been shooting my grandpas for my entire life, its a 1970s gun and it shoots just as straight as my mossberg does. The trigger safety isn't that big of a deal IMO. also you can find real nice used ones for well under a 1000 dollars. just my two cents.

+1, I like over and unders, love side by sides, but a 1100 with IC or tubes would serve all my needs.

+2 I havr multiple over unders, 2 870s and id I want to run birds straight on the skeet field or flat kill nirds I grab my 1100 field special (shorter.enflish stock and 21 in barrel). Its so old I had.truchoke mill out and instal tubes in the early 80's. Grandkids.startong to shoot..will def.find.a.20 ga version for them (anyone getting rid of one? )

ezzy333 wrote:While we all are expressing our thoughts I never found a need for a 3 inch shell in a 12 gauge other than duck or goose hunting and even then it is nice but not necessary. I do most of my hunting with a 20 gauge and seldom use a 3 inch shell. Occasionally I do try to keep onr as the third shell but I haven't used that 3rd shot once in the past three years. I seldom use the second shot when hunting upland.

Ezzy

I agree with that.

"you got enough dynamite there Butch"

Sundance Kid

Mossberg 930 gets good reviews. It should do everything you are asking for with no problems. Go to your local gun store and hold/shoulder the Mossberg and Remington. That should give you an idea of which one you like better.

Jon,
Your vision of "mastering" dove shooting is honorable. But a hunter using a 12 ga on dove won't make the "master" list in many circles, certainly none that I've been around. Still, I recognize that small gauge guns aren't for everyone. Just the same, a 12 ga is a cannon on dove and quail.

Another for the A300.
I love my Xtreme, which is a similar platform, and goes up to 3 1/2" if necessary.
Handles the lightest target loads and up to the heavy magnum shells, with minimal recoil to the shooter.

If you could only have one gun to me it would be a 12 gauge rem 870 wingmaster but why only have one gun? That was my second shotgun (I am 28 and got it in a trade about 8 years ago)

After dove hunting with it a few times I realized I needed something less powerful. I bought a 20 gauge stoger over under. Not the best gun out there but it works. Why not a 12 gauge pump and a 20 gauge auto for the smaller stuff. Going for used guns you could easily get both for under $1000

By limiting your choice of guns to 12 ga, 3" chamber, American made and under $1000, you have virtually named the gun. It'll be overkill and overweight for upland hunting, more at home in a duck blind.

My advice is to pick a waterfowl gun separately from your upland gun. A nice upland gun will be 6 to 6 1/2 lbs in 20 ga or smaller with 28"-30" barrels .

JonBailey wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:While we all are expressing our thoughts I never found a need for a 3 inch shell in a 12 gauge other than duck or goose hunting and even then it is nice but not necessary. I do most of my hunting with a 20 gauge and seldom use a 3 inch shell. Occasionally I do try to keep onr as the third shell but I haven't used that 3rd shot once in the past three years. I seldom use the second shot when hunting upland.

Ezzy

The 3" chamber can handle 2 2/4" shells as well. Most autoloaders are going to be a 3" chamber anyway. Besides, the uplands,
I have ducks, varmints and other game in mind as well. I may go on a hound-driven whitetail deer hunt in the South someday
where only scatterguns are permitted for safety reasons.

Did you mean 2 3/4? Or 2 1/2? I don't know why, but this kept nagging at me as I read.

I don't do waterfowl, so this might not be a full on comparative.

However, back in 1970 I bought a Browning A-5 in 20 ga with a 3" chamber and a 26" IC barrel, mostly for upland over pointing dogs. Most of my shooting was preserve or native pheasant for which I use high base 2 3/4 #6's or quail for which I used low base 8's. Killed literally thousands of birds with it. I still pull it out occasionally.

I think I have had the 3' rings in the gun one or two times, and actually hunted (for deer) with 3" slugs exactly once.

Never found any need for more gun in the upland. I started out with a 12 ga and it was indeed too much gun most of the time.

When I deer hunted, it was a 12 ga. 3" chambered autoloader, except for a three year stint with a 3 1/2 10 ga. double that was a deer killing machine, but waaaaaay too heavy to tote around.

For upland it is VERY hard to beat a Rem trombone. The best part is that if you miss on the first shot, working the action will tend to re-orient yboth your lead hand and your shoulder mount and force you to re-aim...and a flawed mount or aim is most probably the reason why you missed the first shot anyway.

For duck, goose and deer, a big, sturdy, solid and HEAVY 12 ga, 3" chambered gun, with a Pachmayr, or similar, recoil absorbing pad is s the way to go. A heavy gun will have less felt recoil. Simple physics. A good pad will soak up more of that recoil, buy slowing down and spreading out that recoil. Unless you have a trap gun type gas actuated recoil abatement system, weight is the best answer to felt recoil. Also a lighter gun will experience more punishment and if it is an autoloader, the mechanism will definitely take a beating so...all things being equal, you will have to buy a higher priced, better made gun for it to have a reasonable chance of holding up and not shooting itself to pieces.

I bought one Mossberg in my life. It was a youth model pump. The slide separated from the forearm after about three boxes of shells. The solder job failed. It went back and I replaced it with a Winchester 1300 youth. That kind of shoddy design and QC is offensive to me and I will never buy another Mossberg weapon.

My son still shoots the Winchester and he is in his mid thirties. The only thing I do not like about it is the location of the safety at the front of the trigger guard, as it forces the young shooter to slide their hand forward to push off the safety, forcing them to reposition their hand during the mount. But he got used to it and shot it quite well.

A safety at the rear of the trigger guard my take a bit of getting used to, it you grew up with a top of the tang safety, but it works fine.

RayG

It is virtually the "30-06" of shotguns as the Labrador Retriever is the
"30 06" of hunting dogs.

That's hysterical!

Though only branded Weatherby (built in Turkey I think) my son has an SA-08 and it has performed flawlessly.

All my shotguns at this point are 12ga but I really should have bought my O/U in 20 instead of 12, over kill is an issue when you get birds too shot up to eat.

I bought a SA-08 20g this summer for my son. I liked it so much I carry more than my citori o/u 12g. I never had an issues and eats any shells I feed it. I use 3 in Benelli for duck which is to heavy for carrying in the field all day. All of them sure beat the Ithaca pump I carried as s young lad.

deke wrote:

JonBailey wrote:

RickB wrote:Sorry...is there a question in there?

No, does there need to be?

OK, you asked for one: what is the BEST American-made shotgun for under 1000 bucks?

You could say under $10,000 and the answer will still be the same. Remington 870. I have put mine through heck and everytime I pull the trigger it goes bang. If I am shooting horrible I always go back to old reliable. The 870 is like taking the ugly girl to the prom, you wont get a lot of compliments, but you are going to have a lot more fun.

my hunting partner would shoot 98-99 out of 100 in trap at 27 yards with a rock stock 870. He didn't even do a trigger mod. Drove the $4,000 gun owners nuts.

I've shot a Browning Gold Hunter for the last 16 years or so and it hasn't skipped a beat. Not the lightest auto ever made. I've shot 3", 2 3/4 along with re-loads and never had a problem. Beautiful wood. I think they are under $1,000.

I'd also look into the Winchester SX3 or Benelli Ultra Light

Remingtons are my number one firearm repair in my shop. I bet I have a dozen in the back right now that need to be worked on. 870, 11-87, sp-10 and the 1100 are the most common for repair. Like was posted above "my dad" or "my grandpas" still shoots great, this is accurate. The older models don't break. The ones made in the last 20 years seem to be most problematic. It is always the same problems, broken shell latch, broken ejector spring. They do have to be brought to a smith when they break, they are staked and/or riveted parts and very difficult to replace without the tools.

I never have to repair mossbergs, berettas, cz or benellis.
I do like benelli, they are simple, easy to disassemble and made very well, the cryo-steel they use is almost indestructible. They also carry a heavy price tag.

Mossbergs would be my second choice, they do not have the frail parts in them like the remingtons. All parts in the mossberg that can break, you could fix on your kitchen table. It is work horse.

CZ are ok, most of them are held to high manufacturing standards, but an occasional lemon slips through QC. They can be finicky and fail if not maintained or in extreme weather.

Berettas are way overpriced for the quality. With the exception of the 300, this one was built with budget in mind. There is too much going on in the action, to me it seems over-engineered.
They do work well, and have a good following.

These are just my opinions from my experiences with these firearms.

Let me just add that I am by no means a good shotgunner. They all have different fits and feels and I just plain suck at shooting shotguns.

Beretta A300

I cannot believe how much I like this shotgun. It's been totally reliable with light loads and anything else I have thrown at it. It shoots soft and points really well. I recommend it wholeheartedly. I have shot it in extreme cold weather and many wet rainy WA duck hunting days. It's never choked or let me down.