Gun Dog Forum

Looking for a new lightweight SxS. I've got plenty of shotguns in 12 and 20, just looking for something lighter that won't damage too much meat.

I am a promoter of the 28, although stop short of ascribing magical properties, still thinking it is very good for quail sized game. I would caution against going too light, I have a 5 1/2 pound Uggie that I have to concentrate to keep it moving.

I have seen little evidence that a 20 damages more meat, and I do not believe a 28 is more sporting.

I like sporting but too often we think it is more important than a clean humane kill.

Ezzy

randomnut wrote:Looking for a new lightweight SxS. I've got plenty of shotguns in 12 and 20, just looking for something lighter that won't damage too much meat.

I don't know your level of knowledge in the area so forgive me if you already know this. But a light 12 gauge load will do less damage than a heavy 20 gauge load. You can also buy a 1oz load of 7 1/2 shot in either 12, 20, or 28 gauge and all three will do essentially the same amount of damage.

10-4 guys. Looks like I'll check out some 20's.

Ezzy, I understand your point, but I'm not looking at sporting, just wanna save as much meat possible. I shot a bobwhite today with #9 Winchester AA Xtralight loads. I can normally hit, but this hit sent the bird straight back about 10 yards. Dog retrieved two wings. This was with a Beretta Silver Mallard in 12 gauge.

I'll try to find some 7/8 oz loads for my 20's for now.

What's the issue guys have with a 28? If you already have 12's and 20's, get a 28 and go kill an arc. The 28 is a PHENOMINAL quail round. Read up on ballistics and patterns, and you will quickly realize why hard core quail hunters LOVE the 28.

Essentially, damage is done by pellet size, payload size, velocity, and pattern density.

If you're shooting 1oz at 1200fps out of an improved cylinder, damage is essentially identical.

Now if you're looking to buy a gun, I love the 28s. After you get that and a 410, you can move on to one of my favorites... the 24 guage. When you're about ready to drop the cash down on a 11 or 14 guage Parker, I'll be here to nudge you in the direction of the 32 guage instead.

I shoot a 28 ga. for all of my upland hunting & NSTRA (quail) trials. If you're concerned with blowing up game, switching from a 20 ga to a 28 ga won't make much of a difference. It just sounds like you are shooting too soon & not letting the bird get out far enough where the pattern is open enough to not tear them up. Do that or shoot more open chokes or better yet if you want to shoot quickly, shoot a spreader in the first barrel. I shoot a #9 3/4 oz spreader in NSTRA trials, & at woodcock & grouse hunts & I never tear anything up. The spreader load is good to about 10 yards & after that it's blown. You can't get on them too quick for that load! In the second barrel I'll shoot a regular load since the bird will be in the 15-25 yard range after I fire the first barrel.

OhioVizsla wrote:I shoot a 28 ga. for all of my upland hunting & NSTRA (quail) trials. If you're concerned with blowing up game, switching from a 20 ga to a 28 ga won't make much of a difference. It just sounds like you are shooting too soon & not letting the bird get out far enough where the pattern is open enough to not tear them up. Do that or shoot more open chokes or better yet if you want to shoot quickly, shoot a spreader in the first barrel. I shoot a #9 3/4 oz spreader in NSTRA trials, & at woodcock & grouse hunts & I never tear anything up. The spreader load is good to about 10 yards & after that it's blown. You can't get on them too quick for that load! In the second barrel I'll shoot a regular load since the bird will be in the 15-25 yard range after I fire the first barrel.

Amen

I love the 28! But I love my 20's more. The problem with the 28 is that the guns are often over-built which takes all the appeal out of owning this gauge, now get one built on a true scaled 28 ga. and you will be in love. Another big problem with the 28 is shell expense and availabilty. Don't let me talk you out of buying a new gun especially a sweet 28 ga, but if you are just buying one to save meat, look into a mec reloader for your 20. You can reload 3/4 oz 20 ga. shells that duplicate 28 ga. ballistics for much less than a new gun. The 3/4 oz 20 ga. load with at 1200 FPS is like a hammer on dove in quail, one of my favorite loads.

For quail get the 28ga. I would not get one based on a 20ga frame however. Find a gun built from the ground up to be a 28ga and you will be much happier. I've got a little Renato Gamba 28 SxS that's a sweet little gun. Easy to carry all day, sized right and well put together. And for a decent SxS it wasn't a killer on price, for the market. I think I got it for $1800 or so.

And I'm not worried about the cost of shells. For the little shooting I actually do on quail a box of 28ga 7.5 3/4 oz is $8. I can get the same in 20ga for about $6.

It's more about the handling qualities and less about the gauge. I can get hit more birds with my 28 than I can with my 12, because the 28 fits better therefore I can shoot it better. It just happens to be a 28 gauge. If I can find a 12 with the feel of my 28 I would shoot that.

Gordon Guy wrote:It's more about the handling qualities and less about the gauge. I can get hit more birds with my 28 than I can with my 12, because the 28 fits better therefore I can shoot it better. It just happens to be a 28 gauge. If I can find a 12 with the feel of my 28 I would shoot that.

Precisely why I love a 16ga..there are some nice guns built on a 20ga frame making for a wonderful upland gun in the 6-1/4 lb range. Throw a 5.5 lb 28ga in there for Quail-WC- + dog training and that's about as good as it gets.

randomnut wrote:Looking for a new lightweight SxS. I've got plenty of shotguns in 12 and 20, just looking for something lighter that won't damage too much meat.

If you need an excuse to buy a new gun by all means go for it. But if you shoot one of the guns you currently have really well, why not buy smaller shells? they make 3/4 ounce 12 ga loads or spreader loads for 12 and 20 gauges. Check out RST

http://www.rstshells.com/store/m/2-12-Gauge.aspx

If you shoot Semi auto's never mind as these lighter loads may not have enough energy to cycle an auto loader.

I've used both 28s and 20s since the 60's and really like them both. Probably my best quail gun ever was a 28 that was half of a Rem 870 Skeet matched pair. Back then they were much smoother than now. I still have a Rem 870 20ga Upland Special with 21" tubed bbl. I use a Carlson extended Skeet tube in it for quail and a light modified for pheasant. Works great but I rarely shoot it so I'm gonna sell it and use one of my two 28s for quail and early season pheasant. I just enjoy shooting them more and kill as many birds with the 28 as I do the 20. I use a 16ga Browning BPS Upland Special for late season pheasant and waterfowl and windy inclement weather. I haven't owned a 12 for many years.

randomnut wrote:.... but I'm not looking at sporting, just wanna save as much meat possible. I shot a bobwhite today with #9 Winchester AA Xtralight loads. I can normally hit, but this hit sent the bird straight back about 10 yards. Dog retrieved two wings. This was with a Beretta Silver Mallard in 12 gauge. ...

"Sporting" obviously has different meanings for some of us.

The noted issue with the quail had less to do with gauge than the decision to shoot.
Also, lose the #9s as a start if food value is an interest.

The 28 gauge can work a treat on small, loose-feathered birds such as doves, woodcock and quail.
It can begin to limit out on the ruffed grouse if conditions are less than optimum for the shot to be taken, then birds can be delivered with the head up ...more often.
Pheasants in the open with a good dog can easily work as well ...again, with that all important decision to shoot or not.

I had a 28 gauge and it worked fine on gamebirds matching the limits on the day.
Still, one can stick a wad in a woodcock with a 28 as easily as with a 12.....gauge does not matter much in that regard.

IF, you want a new scattergun, get one or want the rather over-rated light scattergun, get one but disabuse yourself of the justification for purchase based upon food value of the bird taken.
It's a non-starter in the real world....other than at some extreme of use always popular on message boards.
Scattergunning birds is waaay over thought and far from rocketry.
Have fun with the new smoke pole.

28 shells are going to cost more than a 20. I used to carry a 12 and recently switched to 20. The 20 with a modified choke will reach out and touch them fairly easy so you won't have to worry about tearing them up at close range

Mountaineer wrote:

randomnut wrote:.... but I'm not looking at sporting, just wanna save as much meat possible. I shot a bobwhite today with #9 Winchester AA Xtralight loads. I can normally hit, but this hit sent the bird straight back about 10 yards. Dog retrieved two wings. This was with a Beretta Silver Mallard in 12 gauge. ...

"Sporting" obviously has different meanings for some of us.

The noted issue with the quail had less to do with gauge than the decision to shoot.
Also, lose the #9s as a start if food value is an interest.

The 28 gauge can work a treat on small, loose-feathered birds such as doves, woodcock and quail.
It can begin to limit out on the ruffed grouse if conditions are less than optimum for the shot to be taken, then birds can be delivered with the head up ...more often.
Pheasants in the open with a good dog can easily work as well ...again, with that all important decision to shoot or not.

I had a 28 gauge and it worked fine on gamebirds matching the limits on the day.
Still, one can stick a wad in a woodcock with a 28 as easily as with a 12.....gauge does not matter much in that regard.

IF, you want a new scattergun, get one or want the rather over-rated light scattergun, get one but disabuse yourself of the justification for purchase based upon food value of the bird taken.
It's a non-starter in the real world....other than at some extreme of use always popular on message boards.
Scattergunning birds is waaay over thought and far from rocketry.
Have fun with the new smoke pole.

+1

Excellent post

Gauge should be chosen strictly on handling characteristics alone relative to the potency to do the job for the particular hunt - 1200 fps is 1200 fps - the critter does not know the difference but the mechanics of the shot mean everything to the produced result.

Get the 28 and feed it Winchester aa 8.5's at 1300fps, I use it on grouse and woodcock with excellent results out to 35 yards.

When steel shot becomes the law of the land, what kind of loads will be available for a 28. In 20 it is 3/4 oz.

cooper hill hunter wrote:Get the 28 and feed it Winchester aa 8.5's at 1300fps, I use it on grouse and woodcock with excellent results out to 35 yards.

BINGO !! I shoot a CZ Bobwhite SxS in 28ga. with 26" barrels. I screwed in an I/C & Mod choke when I purchased it 5 years ago, and only take them out at the end of every season when going through the gun, breaking it down and cleaning everything up. The gun weighs 5.15 lbs. and is a dream to swing/shoot. And I could carry it all day long if I had to here in New England while pursuing upland game.