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Worst predator

What's the worst predator?

Coyotes
27
12%
Foxes
8
4%
Hawks/Eagles
89
39%
Bobcats
4
2%
Racoons
23
10%
Politicians
77
34%
 
Total votes : 228

Worst predator

Postby Birdhunter1 » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:17 am

So what do you think is worse on quail populations?

I vote for the hawks.
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Postby TAK » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:06 am

All can be killed with a licence or are unprotected Exept the mighty Raptors!
I have personally placed some birds out and within 50 yards had a bird taken out!
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Postby dognut » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:54 am

I would agree that the hawk is the worst and I have read several things that say they are on a serious comeback. but i think that pol. are worse by far
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Postby Rusti's Mom » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:26 am

Hawks are on the come back. We drove about 5 hours this past weekend and there seemed to be one on every telephone pole and even some on the fence poles. At the ranch, we were out training and two of them were sitting on top of the trees just waiting for the puppies to bust the quail. We picked up the pups until the hawk flew away. Ya never know, and I didn't want a pup hurt or taken. The hawks were not afraid of the dogs.

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Postby birddog » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:41 am

I think all have a major impact on the quail and other game bird population. Hawks take them out of the air and snach them from the ground but the fox, raccoon etc. find the spring nest's and eat or destroy the eggs. I think we should have a season on all preditors including the Hawks. They are out of controll.
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Postby Rusti's Mom » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:53 am

It would really help if we could shoot them on our own privately owned lands.

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Postby ezzy333 » Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:19 pm

I can't vote since the worst predator isn't listed. The worst in my opinion is the feral house cat or commonly called the ditch tiger. They do more damage to the bird population from song birds up to quail and pheasants.

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Postby TAK » Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:57 pm

Ezzy you are right! I can say this everyone I have passed that has been to far out away from homes makes for a TARGET RICH ENVIORMENT!
Over the last few years I see less wild cats. I believe it is due to so many hound guys around!
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Postby Gregory » Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:41 pm

I vote for the politician.


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Postby Greg Jennings » Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:08 pm

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Postby Rusti's Mom » Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:56 pm

Very interesting Greg. I need to do some research to see what Texas studies reveal. It would be interesting to see the similarities as well as the differences.

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All of the above!

Postby tfbirddog2 » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:26 pm

Ezzy,oh so true man.If I see a cat not with in 1/8 of a mile of a house he is no more.The whole list is hard on birds that why I say all of the above.It helps to trap and carry a rifle all year.
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Postby kninebirddog » Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:25 pm

if you would have had Bunny huggers they are the worst...they think they are helping when in reality if they had their way the poor animals would starve to death or die of from diseases from being over populated
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Postby Birdhunter1 » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:30 am

Man I posted the politician thing as an of the wall kinda joke, though I do see alot of what they do effecting everything in our ecosystem.
If I can I'll add housecat to the list.
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Postby dognut » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:00 am

the pol. thing is not a joke most want to take away hunters rights and what little land we have to hunt on.
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Postby Colleen » Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:28 am

Well, it's not listed but I'm going to say gators as a roundabout one. Sure, they don't eat the quail or turkeys, but they sure do keep me and my dogs away from public land a good portion of the year.

Coastal Carolina in general is itself the predator against quail, it seems.
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Postby mountaindogs » Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:53 pm

I like predators. Some predators have had a rough time. I studied them, Canis rufus in particular, and am fond of them. Heck we ARE predators! We seem like pretty good guys :wink:
That said...
to everything there is a balance...
I too vote domestic cats.
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Postby llewgor » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:03 pm

this time of the year here it's red tailed hawks.they migrate with the ducks.they kill cats too. on the rivers here people lose cats and small dogs from there houseboat. later it's coyotes grabbing what left of the ditch parrots.in so.cal you have to watch out for TIGERS :lol:
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Postby Duane M » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:56 am

Without question furbearers do far more damage than raptors do. Thats from personal experience doing restoration on areas. Not the large furbearers mentioned which do more good than harm by eliminating the bad ones. Skunks, coons, oppossums and dillos will hurt your quail way worse than a raptor will through the destruction of nests. While a raptor may catch a bird or 4 a nest raider will destroy a dozen at a shot before they ever hatch. With quail having a short life span we rely on good, successful hatches each year. When I did major predator elimination on my lands within two years the population tripled and thats with minimal habitat work done. Next time someone thinks of blasting a large hawk think about how many rats and such that bird kills each year. BTW politicians are the second worst when they give more and more funding each year for clean farming practices and development.
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Postby Bird Dogger » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:03 pm

I know on our farm in Indiana the hawks rape the quail population. Ferral Cats do a number on them to but they are no comparison to the hawk. We need to be able to harvest them on our own land if we feel the need. I have seen hawks get several quail while we were hunting quail!
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Postby snips » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:22 pm

Coopers Hawk & House cats
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Postby reedauction » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:25 pm

Out here in california the biggest problem is ferrel cats and ground squirrels. The squeirrels are terrible nest raiders ..
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Postby PAHunter » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:32 am

I'd like to add poachers, I can understand an animals need to eat but I can't understand how a guy can shoot a deer cut off the head and leave the meat to rot. Then fabricat some ficticious story to tell his buddies about how he got this nice buck during archery.

I'll also second those liberal politicians!

3 rd would have to be the Pa game com. who has mismanaged the deer herd. We went from having high deer numbers and bad forest managment, to low deer numbers and a recovering forest. I can't even imagine how many new hunters were' re going to lose. There are so many things competing for our kids attention, if they don't actually see anything how can we call it hunting!

For me the best way to get a kid to hunt is to have him walk behind a good dog!!

venting,
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Postby gundogguru » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:13 am

I don't see much differance between a Politicians and a coyote.
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Postby APRock » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:43 pm

Ditch Tigers, members of the weasel family (that kind of includes the politicians!), and poachers.
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predators

Postby loneeagle15 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:53 am

actually there was astudyand the common household cat was listed as #1 killer of birds
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Re: predators

Postby Birdhunter1 » Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:29 am

loneeagle15 wrote:actually there was astudyand the common household cat was listed as #1 killer of birds


I won't argue that, but the numbers of those type of predators are dwindling around my place recently.
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Re: predators

Postby TAK » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:17 am

Birdhunter1 wrote:
loneeagle15 wrote:actually there was astudyand the common household cat was listed as #1 killer of birds


I won't argue that, but the numbers of those type of predators are dwindling around my place recently.


Ohh Buddy! Niki has bagged over a dozen this month! There for a while I had a major hi-way thro my yard. Not any more!!!!! Good Dog!
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Re: predators

Postby Birdhunter1 » Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:29 am

TAK wrote:
Birdhunter1 wrote:
loneeagle15 wrote:actually there was astudyand the common household cat was listed as #1 killer of birds

Mine ain't due to a dog. It's due to a .22 caliber rifle and a nephew polishing up on his shooting skills, with the help and guidance of his favorite uncle of course.

I won't argue that, but the numbers of those type of predators are dwindling around my place recently.


Ohh Buddy! Niki has bagged over a dozen this month! There for a while I had a major hi-way thro my yard. Not any more!!!!! Good Dog!
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Postby Small Munsterlander » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:16 am

I didn't respond to the poll because "the human" wasn't listed. The raptors are not even close to the top of the list they are often an ally that it would seem some humans don't want to pay (with food) for that role.

Some folks have lobbied for a balance. Nature isn't about a balance to suit our needs as humans or hunters. Some have suggested that the raptor polutation has grown (even overgrown) when in reality I know of no study that shown a significant growth in any raptor species population in NA were there wasn't an extrodinary effort made by the human to intervene even more that the current protection laws raptors are afforded since protection in the 60's. As a matter of fact more are on yet high levels of protect than in the past with the attempt to stave off dangerously close levels to avoid extinction.

If the human were given the green light to kill all raptors on their property or the fly zone above it I guarantee within a very few short years your gamebird population would be in even greater danger of nonexistance than it is today.

Raptor ecology tells us these birds population is controlled by their prey species (not the other way around).

The bottom line is this whole attitude towards the raptors stems from one's own philosophy about stewardship and has little to do with ecology. Bill

P.S. The million bird kills by cats referrs to passerines taken by domestic cats and that figure is at least 15 years old.
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Postby ezzy333 » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:35 pm

I guess I misread the title to this thread. I thought we were voting on the worst predator which maybe should have read the best predator. Raptors are a good answer as they continue to get more populace through out the midwest at least. I do think the house cat kills more but they are usually the smaller birds and not the game birds I think we are talking about.

But it is a concern that the number or raptors is increasing faster than its food sources because the protection offered to them today. I am not against protecting any and all spieces that need it but it must be done in a responsible manor that includes the protection from that same spieces when it becomes a problem or is doing harm to other valued spieces.

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Postby Small Munsterlander » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:08 pm

Ezzy: Raptors can't outgrow there food source. They won't even reproduce without an abundent food supply, never mind successfully raise young. The mortality rate in raptors is approx. 90% in the first year and then an additional 50% in the second. Many don't reproduce until a few years of age and only do so for a 1/2 dozen years if they even live that long.

The notion that raptor populations are growing in the midwest is likely the displacement of birds because of loss of habitat in another portion of the country or area, or range. This habitat loss won't be due to the raptor but likely humans incredible appitite for space amount other habitat components.

I guess an important question is "What is "valuable" and who decides. The human has made so many mistakes in attempting to manage "wildlife" that I'm very uncomfortable with giving a green light. It would be like putting the fox in the hen house.

It isn't even legal at this time and believe me there are plenty of humans ignoring that protection. Bill
Last edited by Small Munsterlander on Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ezzy333 » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:16 pm

Think we need to talk but need to do ir on a different thread.

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Man

Postby Dave Gowdey » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:44 pm

Actually, the worst predator/enemy quail have are ranchers and developers. Since they own the politicians, I voted for them. Arizona's quail populations dropped 95% over the last 20 years, and you only have to see the cow burned moonscape and subdivisions that used to be good quail habitat to understand why. The truth is that in good habitat, there is no natural NATIVE predator that can make a serious dent in quail populations. If there were, when the first europeans arrived here they would have found no quail and two really fat hawks :lol: The problem is that we don't have much good habitat left, and what little is left is directly in the sights of ranching and business interests that are constantly bashing the "tree huggers."

Even though I never saw Arizona during the unbelievable quail years - I'm thankful that I got to see and hunt it when it was still the best quail hunting in the country. Kids nowadays will never see that again, and can't even imagine what it was like based upon what they are seeing today. It's so sad that I had to leave. I couldn't watch the state I love being destroyed for money.
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predators

Postby sdgord » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:50 pm

While I voted for politicians as the number one predator of game birds, I must add that racoons and skunks are the number one nest destroyers. While a hawk takes an occaisional juvenille or adult bird a skunk or raccoon takes away one hens entire seasons production.Crows are probably as detrimental to bird populations as all the mammalian predators combined. SDGORD
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Postby AHGSP » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:53 pm

I'm going to vote FESCUE grasses!

Quail need native warm season grasses that are not conducive to easy livestock production, whereas the fescue's take the heavy grazing and rebound easily just by rotating the livestock herd.

Have you ever seen a field of warm season grasses after being grazed????? They are totally destroyed and will not rebound as readily as the fescue that ranchers now prefer to plant to replace the warm season grasses.

I guess that makes the "Human", most dangerous to Quail.

Just my .02 and honest opinion.

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Postby Birdhunter1 » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:02 pm

Interesting point there Bruce, I hadn't thought of adding FESCUE at the time I made this poll but I'd have to agree with ya, it does do a number on em.
But what I think does as much damage as anythgin to quail in Fescue is they can build a nest in it and they can live in it. The only reason I say that is because i have flushed tem out of it while cutting hay before. While they can live and build a nest in it they can't run in it which is what does the damage to them, especially when a conditioner or disc mower comes through. Bad thing is that is usually done in May or June and that is about the same time young chicks need cover to be abel to hide because they can't fly.

I still think "Fluffy the Kitty" that runs loose becaue "people live in the country and need a cat" and they keep it outside to roam freely. Housecats are the worst on quail by far in my opinion!
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Postby ccavacini » Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:50 am

Worst---cats...feral and house cats that go outside.
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Postby AHGSP » Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:59 pm

I do have to agree with you on "Fluffy the Kitty"! I live in a very rural farmland area and everyone seems to think that this is a PUURRRRFECT (pun intended) place to drop off all their unwanted pussoi's :shock:

That's interesting food for thought on Quail being unable to run in the fescue. Makes sense, it is a very thick grass and would be very difficult for the young birds to not only get out of the way of farm equipment, but to also escape predators in the thick grass.

Birdhunter1 wrote:Interesting point there Bruce, I hadn't thought of adding FESCUE at the time I made this poll but I'd have to agree with ya, it does do a number on em.
But what I think does as much damage as anythgin to quail in Fescue is they can build a nest in it and they can live in it. The only reason I say that is because i have flushed tem out of it while cutting hay before. While they can live and build a nest in it they can't run in it which is what does the damage to them, especially when a conditioner or disc mower comes through. Bad thing is that is usually done in May or June and that is about the same time young chicks need cover to be abel to hide because they can't fly.

I still think "Fluffy the Kitty" that runs loose becaue "people live in the country and need a cat" and they keep it outside to roam freely. Housecats are the worst on quail by far in my opinion!
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Postby Birdhunter1 » Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:58 pm

The only way they can get out of it and awy from somethign is to fly out. Which that may let them excape a coyote but a hawk has em sort of trapped. Obviously if the hawk comes down it's already blocking their escape route so they're gonners.
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Postby Greg Jennings » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:48 am

If you want quail, you gotta have habitat. In a lot of the country, that really boils down to ragweed.

You can't have ragweed in timber or grain-crop monocultures. You dang sure can't have it in nicely manicured lawns of sub-divisions.

I used to have a link right into Auburn University's Quail Restoration Project, but this is what I could find on the fly:

http://www.quailrestoration.com/ragweedarticle.htm

It's not the whole answer, but till you have the habitat to feed and breed the quail, predator control is useless.

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Postby Small Munsterlander » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:46 pm

There are no hawk species that routinely take quail that fly around waiting for the quail to need to escape and ground preditors. The hawks capable of taking quail cannot afford to nor are built to stay on the wing for extended periods to be opportunistic enough to be served quail on any regular bases by the presence of any ground preditors. Bill :)
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Postby Greg Jennings » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:41 am

Hi Bill,

If I remember correctly, the Auburn study indicated that nest-raiding ground animals did almost all the damage. Armadillos, possoms, racoons, etc.

Best regards,
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Postby snips » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:19 am

They have not seen our Coopers Hawks!
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Postby Small Munsterlander » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:59 am

Ground preditors have always had a much greater affect on quail populations than raptors.

The Cooper's Hawk is not a wait on the wing style hunter. The expenditure of energy would create yet a greater need to acquire more food. They (the accipiters) are physically not designed for that style of hunting unlike the buteos. However, even the buteos are not physically designed for the arerial acrobatics of the quail. The buteos are designed for "out in the open" mammals. These are only part of the reason why raptors are not the great threat to upland game birds many would like to incorrectly label them. Bill :)
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Postby snips » Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:41 pm

They may not be a threat to wild birds, but the are h*#* on pen birds. Even broke 2 windows in our house chasing quail into them. The hawks know how to grab them as they are landing and loosing momentem. They are artists at it.
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Postby Small Munsterlander » Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:39 pm

It's just like dangling candy in front of a baby. When you put imitation birds in front of wild preditors you certainly aren't giving the chickens much of a chance and the wildlife much of a challenge. And it has little to do with the plight of wild quail or other upland game birds. Bill :)
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Postby Chaingang » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:36 pm

We don't have quail up in our neck of the woods. Speaking from a nesting and reproduction standpoint, raccoons and skunks are the worse nest robbers. All upland and waterfowl are greatly affected by these vermen.

Adult quail I'd probably say all of the predatory birds including Owls, which wasn't on your list.
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Postby Goosehunterdog » Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:38 am

I voted for the hawk!!! They are always raiding nests.
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Postby ezzy333 » Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:36 am

I didn't know hawks would raid the nest. I have seen them catch quail and pheasants on the wing and also on the ground.

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