Gun Dog Forum

#1 on my list are feral house cats. The Mo Dept of Conservation has done several studies on predation of quail. Cats, dogs, skunks, opossums, fox, squirrel, hawks, bluejays, crows, owls, coyotes ect.. all have been known to prey on quail at some point in their life cycle ( just about every omnivore and carnivore ). There was even one study that showed a doe coming multiple times to feed on quail eggs.

ezzy333 wrote:I can't vote since the worst predator isn't listed. The worst in my opinion is the feral house cat or commonly called the ditch tiger. They do more damage to the bird population from song birds up to quail and pheasants.

Ezzy

I couldn't agree more. House cats that have taken to the wild are very devastating and I personally take out about 10-15 every fall. Another predator that raises havock is a skunk. They raid nests and kill whole clutches of birds. Coyotes are bad to an extent, but studies show that where coyotes are present you will have less fox, coons, skunks and any other predator. JW

Feral Cats/Red Tail Hawks are the two worst....

Old but good thread.
To me the obvious answer (in my neck of the woods) is Developers.
We seem to have a real problem with crows/ravens/magpies raiding the nests also.

Where I come from, and other lands Im sure...predation is a huge problem. an even bigger problem are non hunters. They view hunting as barbaric and cruel...but do not realize what us hunters actually do for animal populations. As previously stated, animals would be so over populated, and would cause a huge chain reaction. Also, funding is now being cut from our conservation officers by our lovely governments. In my opinion, if something isnt done soon, hunting will never be the same
BTW when I say non hunters I do not mean ALL none hunters. Some are indifferent.

It may not be the worst, but I believe the Wild Turkeys are a big problem on the quail. When I came to Ga 30 yrs ago I could find coveys easily, even in populated areas. There were no Turkeys to be seen. The last 10 yrs there are suddenly Turkeys everywhere and no birds. The areas I lived in have not changed that much in developement, and no quail. I have been told that Turkeys have been found raiding the nests:(

Small Munsterlander wrote:It's just like dangling candy in front of a baby. When you put imitation birds in front of wild preditors you certainly aren't giving the chickens much of a chance and the wildlife much of a challenge. And it has little to do with the plight of wild quail or other upland game birds. Bill

Pen raised birds are all some of us have. In my part of the country you have to use them if you want to be involved with pointing dogs.

Coopers sit and wait for me to release birds from my recall pens. On two different occations they have actually taken birds that my dogs had pointed. Once they find a released covey the entire covey will be gone within two weeks. So.... SM you will have to excuse me on this one because I hate the da$n things. If they ever leaglize killing them I will be the first in line for a license. I have even come to love crows because they seem to hate them as much as I do.

Snips, I agree about the turkeys. I have not seen evidence that they rob nests but I have watched them eat very small chicks from a tree stand.

Charles

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Deja Vu!

Turkeys and Coopers hawks typically are blamed when the habitat change that favors both of them and hurts quail is ignored. If you have good turkey #'s you have good turkey habitat. And if you have good turkey habitat, you'll typically have a quail habitat problem.

The one case where I would say turkeys may be to blame to some degree is when desires to manage habitat for turkeys trumps quail mgmt. desires.

I don't think Bill posts on any forums much anymore but I think he made some good points regarding raptors. Their size does not always equate to the size of prey they consume. Some of the larger raptors rarely take anything larger than a ground squirrel, one of them doesn't even have the strength in their feet to tackle anything larger than small songbirds and frogs.

Windyhills wrote:Deja Vu!

Turkeys and Coopers hawks typically are blamed when the habitat change that favors both of them and hurts quail is ignored. If you have good turkey #'s you have good turkey habitat. And if you have good turkey habitat, you'll typically have a quail habitat problem.

The one case where I would say turkeys may be to blame to some degree is when desires to manage habitat for turkeys trumps quail mgmt. desires.

I don't think Bill posts on any forums much anymore but I think he made some good points regarding raptors. Their size does not always equate to the size of prey they consume. Some of the larger raptors rarely take anything larger than a ground squirrel, one of them doesn't even have the strength in their feet to tackle anything larger than small songbirds and frogs.

You hit the nail on the head. Turkeys prosper in old growth timber. Quail need brushy habitat with lots of bare ground. Find good quail habitat now and don't manage it, it will become great for turkeys in 10-15 years.

Windyhills wrote:
Deja Vu!

Turkeys and Coopers hawks typically are blamed when the habitat change that favors both of them and hurts quail is ignored. If you have good turkey #'s you have good turkey habitat. And if you have good turkey habitat, you'll typically have a quail habitat problem.

The one case where I would say turkeys may be to blame to some degree is when desires to manage habitat for turkeys trumps quail mgmt. desires.

I don't think Bill posts on any forums much anymore but I think he made some good points regarding raptors. Their size does not always equate to the size of prey they consume. Some of the larger raptors rarely take anything larger than a ground squirrel, one of them doesn't even have the strength in their feet to tackle anything larger than small songbirds and frogs.


You hit the nail on the head. Turkeys prosper in old growth timber. Quail need brushy habitat with lots of bare ground. Find good quail habitat now and don't manage it, it will become great for turkeys in 10-15 years.

The problem with this is the turkeys don't know that brushy cover is for quail and they get in it every day. Old growth timber and brushy edges go together. We have excellent habitat for both but since the turkeys don't stay in theirs the quail suffer. It isn't always an either or situation as the two habitats overlap.

Ezzy

Ezzy I have spent many hours with a Mo Dept of Conservation private lands specialist to improve quail habitat on my property. When I first bought it, turkey abounded, fields were over grown with fescue and there was very little shrubby cover. Over the last few years, I've suppressed the fescue, planted lots of shrubby cover and did a lot of edge feathering. As projects were completed, the quail #s increased and turkey #'s dropped. I might see a turkey every other week or so now and have at least 1 covey of quail on me at any given time. There are some interesting articles on the MDC website on this very topic.

Been there and done that. Got rid of all the fescue years ago though there is still some around if you don't keep it under control. We have brush old fence rows and around all of the fields. We also see a few quail the last few years. But we stll have turkeys all over the place since the hardwoods are still in place. You will seldom go up to the open field and not see turkeys forageing. And right along with that you seldom see quail where we used to have them before the turkeys.

Ezzy

All but the hawks can be either trapped or hunted. Not enough kids running trap lines these days. My son will when he gets a bit older. I recommend everyone do a line next fall to help out with these predators.

I gots quail all over the place, pheas etc, hunt coons and polcats trap the rest, coyotes steer clear or they too get killed off. Had 2 eagles over my place after we used some quail for training, must have got a few and took off, didnt find a single one later on.

15-20 years ago you hardly ever seen ANY Turkey's and a lot of Quail in Nebraska and now you see Turkey's EVERYWHERE (hundreds of them)

Where you used to see A LOT of Quail in Nebraska, you don't see many at all, but you see them da-- Turkey's..

I have never talked to a Game Officer about this, but I am possitive that Turkey's are somewhat at fault for the Quail population decrease in Nebraska for sure...........

Don't forget Mother Nature either. One good hail storm and/or flood will do a number on the chick crop and the adults..

We had a bad time with feral cats when I was a teenager. They just seemed to devastate the local bobwhite population.

lots of stray cats out there that probably do a big number on quail.

I didn't see anyone mention fire-ants. Seems they are a big problem around here for anything that nests on the ground. We have problems with cats and coyotes as well but they are actually easier to control than the "bleep" fire ants.

John

A couple of years ago I read about deer eating eggs and young birds out of nests. With minature cameras they've recorded Elk eating sage grouse eggs. Elk, whitetail deer, ground squirrels and mice are all nest predators.

I've only provided one link below but you can google for more if interested.

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/news/press/ontape.htm

Mark

Around here I see nothing but Hawks on fence posts/telephone poles. Though I also contribute the bird decline to Turkeys (too many) and Politicians (not doing enough to encourage habitat management).

We sure don't need the politicians to get involved in habitat management. They need to stick to what government is supposed to do and not get into areas they know nothing about while spending our money.

Ezzy

Hawks.They kill too many of my training pigeons.They're too over protected anymore.I live in the city and there's Plenty of them here.Some migrate through areas at certain times.but you also have Resident hawks that don't migrate anywwere.

sjohnny wrote:I didn't see anyone mention fire-ants. Seems they are a big problem around here for anything that nests on the ground. We have problems with cats and coyotes as well but they are actually easier to control than the "bleep" fire ants.

John

Yes we have a big fire ant problem in SC. Not sure what they have done to quail pop but i assume its not a benefit. We use Surragators to help with our wild pop and we try to treat the area around the box. But the times that we have not I have not noticed any fire ant problems so it does not look like they effect the birds that much once they hatch. Our biggest problems seem to be nest predators and hawks.

sjohnny wrote:I didn't see anyone mention fire-ants. Seems they are a big problem around here for anything that nests on the ground. We have problems with cats and coyotes as well but they are actually easier to control than the "bleep" fire ants.

John

Johhny you are absolutely right!! My mother lives in Bastrop out in the pine forrest, and I swear I have never been around more mounds of fire ants ever. They are definitely to help blame the population of game birds around those parts of Texas.

Eagles & Falcon & Hawks .... you name it, Alaska's just about got it.....

Looks like the Birds are barely beating out the politicians....ugh ohh can the birds of prey pull the upset? lol

The pol has my vote. Habitat loss is the biggest concern and pols support of adverse energy and land use policies are the leading cause for it.

fishvik wrote:The pol has my vote. Habitat loss is the biggest concern and pols support of adverse energy and land use policies are the leading cause for it.

Are you sure that the biggest problem with the habitat isn't the umber of people in the world. Not quite sure how the energy and land use policies are involved.

Ezzy

like said most of the ground varmits can be some what controlled with proper hunting and trapping....to bad there is no hawk and politician season the hawks have definitely came back in larger numbers and here in GA where the bird numbers are not what they used to besides habitat destruction they do take the biggest toll on the live birds....snakes and other varmits are bad on the eggs but as far a live birds i would say hawks

around where i from its those dang farm cats that has turned wild they are heck on quail but they do make good target practice when i see them

ezzy333 wrote:I can't vote since the worst predator isn't listed. The worst in my opinion is the feral house cat or commonly called the ditch tiger. They do more damage to the bird population from song birds up to quail and pheasants.

Ezzy

This is soooo true! I cannot say that I believe there is a "worst" predator, because they all certainly have their place within the ecosystem. I've never understood how people can get so bothered by natural predators... Feral cats are a totally differnt thing! Feral hogs are prettty darn bad too. Worst of all are strip malls and subdivisions.

ezzy333 wrote:I can't vote since the worst predator isn't listed. The worst in my opinion is the feral house cat or commonly called the ditch tiger. They do more damage to the bird population from song birds up to quail and pheasants.

Ezzy

Which is why I shoot them every chance I get! Of course unless I am near a farm house. I have barn cats and they do their part but a roaming feral cat is BAD NEWS for all birds.

TAK wrote:All can be killed with a licence or are unprotected Exept the mighty Raptors!
I have personally placed some birds out and within 50 yards had a bird taken out!

Which is exactly why I chose Politicians that won't allow for responsible management.

the coyote population is so high in Illinois i have to vote for them the hawks are making a come back here and i think there should be a legal season on them.

The 3 S solution works well for most all predators.

Shoot


Shovel


keep your mouth Shut

ezzy333 wrote:I can't vote since the worst predator isn't listed. The worst in my opinion is the feral house cat or commonly called the ditch tiger. They do more damage to the bird population from song birds up to quail and pheasants.

Ezzy

Ding, ding, ding. I agree, skunk and coon egg grabbers I would rate behind them.

I think humans/farmers also need to be on the list, with a little habitat left behind it makes it easier for birds to survive from other predators.

jarbo03 wrote:I think humans/farmers also need to be on the list, with a little habitat left behind it makes it easier for birds to survive from other predators.

And city sprawl and all home owners who mow their lawns. Being facious but if we are listing farmers we need to realize city owners are just as guilty. But that is not the definition of a predator. We do take away a lot of habitat but we also add a lot.

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:

jarbo03 wrote:I think humans/farmers also need to be on the list, with a little habitat left behind it makes it easier for birds to survive from other predators.

And city sprawl and all home owners who mow their lawns. Being facious but if we are listing farmers we need to realize city owners are just as guilty. But that is not the definition of a predator. We do take away a lot of habitat but we also add a lot.

Ezzy

Being a Farm kid i would have to say things have changed a lot in farming practices even from when i was a kid, dad and grandpa used to never farm right up to the fence there was at least 5 yrds or more in between the fence line and the start of the crops and then after harvest the left another 5yrds or so un tilled to provide easy walking and food everyone around us did the same we had a ton of pheasant and Quail and I do remember seeing a few Partridge by the woods when i was really young, now with few fence lines and farming clean its hard to find good farms to hunt wild birds not saying the isn't but it is a lot harder.

Don't know much about quail but if I see a hawk when chukar hunting it means that I am in the right place.....

gittrdonebritts wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

jarbo03 wrote:I think humans/farmers also need to be on the list, with a little habitat left behind it makes it easier for birds to survive from other predators.

And city sprawl and all home owners who mow their lawns. Being facious but if we are listing farmers we need to realize city owners are just as guilty. But that is not the definition of a predator. We do take away a lot of habitat but we also add a lot.

Ezzy

Being a Farm kid i would have to say things have changed a lot in farming practices even from when i was a kid, dad and grandpa used to never farm right up to the fence there was at least 5 yrds or more in between the fence line and the start of the crops and then after harvest the left another 5yrds or so un tilled to provide easy walking and food everyone around us did the same we had a ton of pheasant and Quail and I do remember seeing a few Partridge by the woods when i was really young, now with few fence lines and farming clean its hard to find good farms to hunt wild birds not saying the isn't but it is a lot harder.

Living close to the city, sprawl is definitely a big problem, sucks seeing all the fields i used to hunt covered with houses. I used to be able to drive 2 hours for good pheasant hunting, til all native grasses were mowed, every ditch and waterway is mowed, pastures are being burned during the spring, wont find a bug or wildflower in any field. Now i drive bout five hours, where these are not done and back to good bird numbers.

I think ferrel cats around here. They kill everything

Got to put skunks in their too...and don't forget the feral cats...you've got them bad in ND...but the dogs love them

Deer hunting is huge in Texas (almost as big as high school football...and that's big). Most deer hunters will put up feeders (corn) to attract the deer. Quail are obviously attracted to the corn and nest near the feeders. Racoons, also attracted to the area by the corn, then have a buffet of corn and quail eggs. Many hunters will feed all year. Not criticizing the deer hunters, just stating a possibility. If I was not sensitive to what is happening in Texas, I would have to agree with Ezzy as well on this one.

Lack of habitat is the number one cause of reduced quail numbers.... and other birds as well. As for wild predators, the rat snakes take more eggs and hurt the population more than any furbearer or avian predator. Ohh, and the number one predator on snakes is the red-tailed hawk.

Interesting discussion on turkeys... we've been trying to debunk that myth for years, as biologists, I mean. Turkeys have increased because the habitat supports turkeys. They can nest in fescue fields, in thick NWSG fields and in overgrown woodlands and timber. They, like pheasants, are very adaptable to conditions that quail will not live in. In the last 40 years of research on quail and quail nesting (with cameras on nest sites) there has been no documented case of turkeys taking quail chicks or eggs. I think a turkey would eat a quail chick if it came across it and if the quail hen or rooster wasn't there to run her chicks away.

Here in MO, we have some great pictures of turkeys and quail in a winter storm foraging together in the same field for milo seed. Ducks have increased in our area too, we don't say that ducks are eating all the quail. And now, here in North Missouri, our turkey population has been plummeting for the past 5-6 years. The quail have not miraculously rebounded.