Maurice wrote:I test my collars everyday on myself to make sure they are working right.
Tritronics will get a tough dog attention if you use it at the highest level. Dogtra will stop a government mule in it's tracks set at the highest level..
Maurice wrote:I test my collars everyday on myself to make sure they are working right. Tritronics will get a tough dog attention if you use it at the highest level. Dogtra will stop a government mule in it's tracks set at the highest level.. It is very very rare for me to use the ecollar above mid range even for tough stuff.
rkalgren wrote:I decided when I got my Dogtra that I wouldn't use it on a dog if I didn't try it on myself first. I took it up until it was on the verge of being pain instead of just annoying. That is the level I won't go above for a dog unless it is in danger.
Fair enough, fair enough. In each of those, though, you're talking about an application of force directly from the hand or a medical procedure (if even a quasi-medical procedure as anesthetic is rarely used in dew claw removal and tail docking). Apples and oranges when comparing to a remote, electronic stimulus, IMO.Dave Quindt wrote:"I like to know what I'm having the dog experience" is a pretty scary precedent. Why stop with the e-collar? What about tail docking, dew claw removal or force fetch? What about neutering?
Well that's where I disagree. I don't think every person has the inherent knowledge of how e-collars work, what the stimulus levels are like, etc. That's why there are both e-collar abusers and e-collar abhorers among those of us that use the training tools properly.Dave Quindt wrote:You don't know what the dog is going to experience because you are physically and mentally different. A human doesn't "need" to experience an e-collar correction because they have the mental capacity to understand how an e-collar works.
While I don't disagree, I must point out that I never advocated treating dogs like humans. (This goes to all of Ezzy's post too.)Dave Quindt wrote:Dogs are not humans and humans are not dogs. We spend far too much time and energy treating dogs like humans when in the end, this does more harm than good.
I learned how to use the e-collar from a pro. The method was validated by another pro within the video "Perfect Start." That method is to use only the amount of stimulus as required to actually correct the dog. For my dog, that's setting #36 on my Dogtra 1700 NCP. On the rare occasion that #36 fails to achieve the desired result, I crank up the rheostat dial until the stimulus works as intended (highest I've gotten is #45). Again, this is the method of e-collar correction as advocated by the pro that I've worked with and the pros that produced "Perfect Start". I think you may have misunderstood what I was posting or took liberty with what I posted to make a point. I do not agree that the method I and many others use is a "last resort" or "using the slightest amount of pressure that they are 'comfortable' with."Dave Quindt wrote:So many amateurs want to use pressure as a "last resort" and then use the slightest amount of pressure that they are personally "comfortable" with regardless of whether it is in the best interest of the dog or not.
Again, I think you have taken liberty with what I posted to make a point. I don't necessarily disagree with your statements, and I certainly didn't advocate the opposite position.Dave Quindt wrote:As a result many amateur-trained dogs are actually subjected to a long, drawn out torture of sorts. They are allowed to get away with murder and then when the training finally starts, pressure is applied so softly and inconsistently to have little effective impact.
Spending time with the pros that I have, I've seen hundreds of amateur-trained dogs that are a wreck because their owners are afraid to make logical corrections at appropriate levels (to the dog, not to the owner's conscience). In the end, "corrections" are made as a result of frustration, if at all. The escalation of pressure is slow and drawn out, as the owner's conscience grows to tolerate more intense pressure.
I'd absolutely agree with that assertion as well. It's not an ideal world, though, so we both know it ain't gonna happen. What might happen, though, is for someone to take the time to feel the nick of an e-collar before strapping it on their dog and blasting away. It's rare that there's ever only one solution to a problem. I don't believe that this is one of those instances, either. And it certainly couldn't hurt. Well, maybe just for a tenth of a second or so.Dave Quindt wrote:Want to reduce the amount of e-collar abuse? Start by "requiring" (don't know how this could be accomplished) that first time hunting dog owners have their first dog trained by a knowledgeable pro. The owner would be present through the training of his dog, and other dogs to see and understand the use of pressure as a training tool. IMO most amateurs don't have a good idea of what it takes to train hunting dogs to a finished level; both in time and in technique.
ezzy333 wrote:... I don't think there is any corralation at all between what we feel and what a dog feels. ... When you look at what animals do in the wild you get the idea that they are much less senative to pain than we are and probably don't have the same reaction to stimuli that we do.
Trekmoor wrote:I have used it on myself and feel nothing until level 4 out of 12 levels, I tried it on the soft skin on the inside of my wrist. I have now began to use it on my 12 month old pup and he will respond at level 3 or sometimes 4 depending on the situation. He does not appear to feel anything at the lower levels, I can't help wondering why there is a level 1.
Neil wrote:Testing on yourself does not really let you know what the dog is feeling, dogs are much (on average) more sensitive to electricity than humans, horses even more so.
There is such a wide variation in how different people and animals respond that you just can't tell in advance. That is why it is important to train with the lowest level that will give you the results.
If people would just remember that dogs aren't little people,
shooter2005 wrote:cant say ive ever had that urge to shock myself with a collar... im an aviation electrician... i get shocked enough. only volunteered to get shocked once and that was with a taser for training purposes.
kninebirddog wrote:shooter2005 wrote:cant say ive ever had that urge to shock myself with a collar... im an aviation electrician... i get shocked enough. only volunteered to get shocked once and that was with a taser for training purposes.
AN E collar specially the E collars of today shouldn't be about Shocking the dog
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