seizure flare up

[GSP9]

Hi all.

Back in early May I told you about my 3 year old GSP having seizures and being diagnosed with epilepsy. He was put on Phenobarbital and has been fine since. (I even broke him in the meantime). He is a smart, happy, healthy dog; that has seizures.

Well, yesterday he had 3 seizures. 1 at 5:30 am, 1 at 9:30 pm and one at 10:30pm. I called the Evet and they recommended I give him an additional Pb, which I did. He slept well the remainder of the night and seemed ready to roll this morning when I left for work. I have a call into my vet to see what we should do.

Nothing has really changed with him that I can think of causing these. He was even to the vet's for a blood work up to test his levels a few weeks ago. They said everything looked great. I did change his feed about 1 week ago, but the vet said that would not cause an issue. I did read something about breakthrough seizures, but I have to read more to fully understand them.

Can anyone help?

[tenbearsviz]

My experience with E and phenobarb was that if you were off just a bit timing wise with the meds, the phenobarb serum level would dip far enough to allow a seizure.... or in your case, it sounds like a cluster.

Any missed dosages or late administering PB?

[GSP9]

No missed dosage. I was about an hour late giving it to him on Sunday night. Typically it is given at 6:30 pm, but there was a huge accident near our hom and we got stuck in traffic for a while. Typically it is 6:30 am and pm. Could being late 1 hour make that much of a difference?

[Karen]

I've dealt with 2 dogs with Epilepsy over the years, and no matter how regular you are with administering medications, they will have seizures. If levels are kept in the therapeutic range, they should have fewer than they'd normally have without medication, but they will still have them.

The event you described is considered 1 seizure event. All seizures within a 24 hour period are considered 1 event. once a dog has 1 seizure, they are predisposed to having more soon thereafter. Giving the additional Phenobarbital was probably just enough meds to sedate your dog enough for his "threshholds" to reset.

There are dogs that have an intolerance to ingredients in food which can cause seizures (certain preservatives and dyes are usually suspect). My dog had an intolerance to heat. Too much activitiy when it was warm outside could cause a seizure. He also had seizures when photographed professionally (the flash of the camera), also the Kennel Cough vaccine caused him to have a seizure within 10 days of the shot.

As long as he goes 24 hours without a seizure, it's probably nothing to worry about. Make a note in a journal with an approximate length of each seizure and recovery time, what food you were feeding, any vaccines administered in the last couple weeks...anything else that might be pertinent. You might find a pattern or trigger down the road.

[GSP9]

Karen,

Thank you for the info. It is reassuring to hear from other people who have dealt with this.

We keep a journal, but there has been nothing to report. I guess I had my hopes up that they would never happen again or would be very infrequent. I am just happy knowing their life quality is not effected by this. It is just hard to imagine they are not in pain or sick when you actually witness the seizure.

I guess I just have to manage it, and keep letting him live as normally as possible.

[dugger13]

I had a dog with E and also used the same drug. I would keep a detailed journal like stated above. Also if you haven't already figured it out, the meds are alot cheaper online than at the vet.

If seizures continue, obviously talk to your vet, and they will probably up the meds a tad.

[GSP9]

Just spoke to my vet. She said what happened is not a cause for concern and it was most likely just a "cluster". She just said to watch him and if they continue to happen they will most likely update his dosage of Pb.

She assured me that the food I am using and the missing his dosage by an hour probably had little to do with the seizure cause. Kinda just said these things happen with E and it will be ok. She definitely was reassuring and I feel better now.

You guys were helpful as well, and like most times were right on with your suggestions and info.

Thank you.

[monksmom]

I have a 2 yr old Spin who had his first cluster of three seizures a month ago. I have read several places that dogs can develop a resistence to pheno...some have added other drugs if the seizures become uncontrollable. It sounds like the seizures are controlled in your dog, but that doesn't usually mean complete eradication of seizure events, just fewer. I have not found any one thing that triggers our dog's seizures...he was resting or sleeping during all of them.

[GSP9]

Mine is always sleeping or resting as well when they happen. That must be a common time for them to occur for some reason.

[Karen]

monksmom, you may need to look at a broader picture to establish a pattern or trigger, not at just what the dog is doing at the exact time of the seizures.

As I stated above, the kennel cough vaccine caused seizures in one of my dogs within 10 days of receiving it. It took 2 years to actually see the pattern (3 vaccines), and then we didn't vaccinate him for that anymore. Flashing lights we saw immediately, but the intolerance to heat was something that we were able to put together over a 2 year period. It wasn't the heat that caused the seizures exactly....but the heat did lower his "threshholds" enough so that he may have a seizure later that day or the next day.

It would be highly unlikely to be able to identify patterns or triggers in just a few months. You have to remember that it takes a good 2 weeks for levels of phenobarbital to build up in the system to therapeutic levels, and then seizures are considered controlled at 1 episode a month. My dogs has seizures much less frequently than that (a few episodes a year), so it takes time to figure out what might set them off, and soemtimes you really never do see a pattern, but it's very important to keep the journal.

[kninebirddog]

For long term meds you may want to chec to www.roadrunnerpharmacy.com they ship the meds which is bascailly included in the price but many long term meds are much more cost effective via them

i ahd a dog which had valley fever had to med him for 2 years traditional price ofr the meds was about 100 a month where roadrunner i was able to get them for about 125 for 3 months of meds and I had a vet that would do this as his concern was for the dog not his pocket as there are some vets out there that if they stock it they will not write scrits for other pharmacys ...

another thing don't mean to be blunt but besure that he is not allowed in the gene pool ,...the dog I had that showed up with valley fever even though that was a spore in the ground that is inhaled ...the dog showed a a lack of resistance thus he became neutered as i didn't want to encourage that weakness in puppies

[GSP9]

I am not going to breed him.

The Pb is $8 for 3 months from my vet.

I have been reading and it seems like giving them a tablespoon of vanilla ice cream helps bring their blood levels up and can prevent some post event symptoms. I will try that.

[kninebirddog]

Good to hear

there are some people out there that feel because a dog excels in a venue that it justifies breeding them dispite having some issue which should stop a person from breeding their animals...

and great to hear your getting a very reasonable price for the meds from your vet...

Sounds like your doing everything possible sure wish there was a fix so your dog doesn't have to experience any seizures at all

Good Luck

[tenbearsviz]

I am not going to breed him.

The Pb is $8 for 3 months from my vet.

I have been reading and it seems like giving them a tablespoon of vanilla ice cream helps bring their blood levels up and can prevent some post event symptoms. I will try that.

E is truly a heart breaking situation. Glad you aren't breeding.

I wrote an article on my experiences with a young vizsla that seized. Read it here Gunner's Clover if you are up for it.

I recently heard of someone interupting seizures by ocular compression. Good luck with your pup.

[GSP9]

Wow...
Touching article. I truly hope my situation doesn't come to that, but I will always do what is right for the dog.

[wems2371]

I don't think I was ready for your article Tenbearsviz, and I'm going to get a tissue now. That is terribly sad and I'm so sorry you lost Gunner that way and so young. Thanks for sharing it and it's beautifully written. Denise

[monksmom]

monksmom, you may need to look at a broader picture to establish a pattern or trigger, not at just what the dog is doing at the exact time of the seizures.

As I stated above, the kennel cough vaccine caused seizures in one of my dogs within 10 days of receiving it. It took 2 years to actually see the pattern (3 vaccines), and then we didn't vaccinate him for that anymore. Flashing lights we saw immediately, but the intolerance to heat was something that we were able to put together over a 2 year period. It wasn't the heat that caused the seizures exactly....but the heat did lower his "threshholds" enough so that he may have a seizure later that day or the next day.

It would be highly unlikely to be able to identify patterns or triggers in just a few months. You have to remember that it takes a good 2 weeks for levels of phenobarbital to build up in the system to therapeutic levels, and then seizures are considered controlled at 1 episode a month. My dogs has seizures much less frequently than that (a few episodes a year), so it takes time to figure out what might set them off, and soemtimes you really never do see a pattern, but it's very important to keep the journal.

I've been lucky...no more seizures so far, but there was no innoculation, or any other reason for the seizure such as heat, etc. as he had been primarily in climate controlled environment the few days before. There seems to be a strong genetic link in his lines though.

[monksmom]

One thing I forgot to mention is that there are major studies both in this country and in England to try to find the genetic mutations and markers that lead to epilepsy in dogs. If you Google canine epilepsy University of Missouri you should find out about their program and if you also go to the Animal Health Trust (in the UK) you can find info. Both are looking for swabbed cheek samples (UK study) and blood samples (US study) from epilepsy affected dogs and also their immediate family such as all siblings, sire and dam...so if you have an epi dog and/or a close relative, it would be worthwhile to send your samples in. Thanks.

[GSP9]

Unfortunately, Colonel was put to sleep last Wednesday. The previous two weeks for him were heck, with constant seizures. I had several consultations with various vet's...but they all seemed to think the severity of his condition was unusual. He just did not respond to treatments like most do.

The decision to take away his pain and confusion was an easy one, but I was not prepared for how much I miss him. My wife and I have no children, and he was with us always.

Fortunately his 3 years were fun and bird filled. It is quiet around our house, but we are looking for a pup or young started dog to join us. I'm going to post on the for sale forum to see what may be out there.

Thanks to everyone's help throughout this ordeal. Sometimes this site is like therapy!

[Karen]

I am so sorry for your loss.

[snips]

Thats very sad, So sorry for the outcome.

[wems2371]

I am so sorry to hear that. Rest In Peace, Colonel....

[AHGSP]

Really sorry to hear of your loss.
Colonel is chasing birds over the bridge.

[tenbearsviz]

GSP9, Sorry for your loss. Sad part about owning animals is someday we may have to make a quality of life decision.

Colonel is in a better place.

My condolences.

Don

[The Zephyr]

GSP9

Sorry for your loss. It can be very difficult to let a dog go, even when you know you are doing the right thing.

PM me, and let me know what you are looking for in your new prospect, hunting, trailing etc. I’ll try to help out if I can.

Also, I remember you looking forward to your trip to New Hampshire. You are welcome to join us if you’d like.

John L.

[GSP9]

John,

I appreciate the offer very much. I actually cancelled my trip the week before we put him down. I knew in his condition I couldn't take him up there. Hopefully I'll have a new pup sometime this fall, and maybe save the few vacation days for getting him settled in.

Mike

[The Zephyr]

Mike,

I do spend some late season time in central New York chasing ‘ol ruff on some private land. If we don’t get too much snow cover, we could try to put your new charge on some wild birds. Maybe the January thaw?

John L.

[GSP9]

Sounds wonderful.

I sent you a PM.

[GrimmReaper]

I am sorry for your loss.

RIP Colonel

Good luck with your puppy search and getting a new one settled in!