Exceed Dog Food

hoosier · Post by **hoosier** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:31 pm

For those that have fed Exceed did you feed the chicken and rice or lamb and rice? I have fed Purnia Chicken and Rice for 8 years, now that they have changed the formula, raised the price, and made the bag smaller I am done. I am going back to Exceed just not sure if I want to feed the lamb and rice 26/16 or the chicken and rice 30/20. What do you think?

GSPVIZ · Post by **GSPVIZ** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:34 pm

I feed my Viz and GSP the Chicken Formula. They do great on it. I am very happy with it and will continue to use it until Sam's discontinues it or I move somewhere that there is no Sam's!

Killer Instinct · Post by **Killer Instinct** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:37 pm

I feed Exceed's Chicken & Rice - haven't ever had a problem with it. My only concern in reading previous threads is that some members don't give the 30/20 year around - only during the hunting season.... by giving 30/20 year around, will this damage the dog? (sorry, not meaning to hijack your thread, but would love to hear from other members about this....)

Post by **topher40** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:58 pm

it harms them because feeding to "hot" of a feed can be hard on a dogs kidneys. They cant metabolize the extra protein.

Killer Instinct · Post by **Killer Instinct** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:13 pm

topher40 wrote:it harms them because feeding to "hot" of a feed can be hard on a dogs kidneys. They cant metabolize the extra protein.

So what do you suggest - Exceed 30/20 formula (for what lenght of time?) .... then switch to the lower Exceed formula (for what lenght of time)?

Post by **topher40** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:19 pm

I wouldnt feed the 30/20 unless you are working them alot. 30/20 is HOT and is for VERY active dogs. Feed it for a couple of weeks before hunting season, all through it and stop. Switch to a 24/18 feed all other times of the year. Why would you eat like Micheal Phelps if you didnt exercise like he does? So why do the same with your 4 legged athlete? Ask yourself that if you wonder if you should be feeding what your feeding. Hope that Helps!

snips · Post by **snips** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:34 pm

We feed the 30/20 mixed with L & R in summer, then go to C &R for colder weather. We love it. Stools seem a little better on C & R.

Crystal kennels · Post by **Crystal kennels** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:58 am

Hoosier:

I am with you! I am so disgusted that Purina changed the formula and added soybean...I'm sure to cut costs.....smaller bag and upped the price! Our Purina rep at work told us he's getting tons of complaints about the formula change. Everyone expects the price increase...heck its gone up $10 a bag since Spring...but that is not the big issue. Please, Please let Purina know how unhappy you are....perhaps they'll bring back the original formula. I was at PetSmart and saw all that was available now is the shredded blend. I lucked out as I saw 37.5 pound bags of Purina ONE on sale at a great price..........I bought 8 bags...

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:01 am

I went from purina one lamb and rice to exceed lamb and rice no problem and I'm feeding 12 dogs

Rick Hall · Post by **Rick Hall** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:30 am

I AM NOT A CANINE NUTRITIONIST, but it's my understanding that those who are have tried to put the common notion that high protein can create kidney problems to rest. Might not be good for dogs with existing kidney problems, but isn't a detriment to dogs without them.

MOOSE · Post by **MOOSE** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:33 am

Does anyone have a web link for Exceed? I have not ever fed it or even looked into it but am always open to new things!

GSPVIZ · Post by **GSPVIZ** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:37 am

You wont be able to find anything on the company's web site about the feed. This is made by Purina to be sold exclusively at Sam's Club.

BarkRidge · Post by **BarkRidge** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:40 am

topher40 wrote:it harms them because feeding to "hot" of a feed can be hard on a dogs kidneys. They cant metabolize the extra protein.

Can you prove that ?????

Where are the studies to confirm that assumption ????

I am not trying to be confrontational just factual.

msrkennels · Post by **msrkennels** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:13 am

They use to give coupon for a1.00 refund with each bag my check came from purina.

BrettBryan · Post by **BrettBryan** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:26 am

Post by **topher40** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:27 am

Dont worry thats a good question I didnt think you were trying to confrontational. The only facts that I have are what a couple of dog food nutritionist have TOLD me. They work at Del Monte in R&D and do this stuff for a living. Unfortunately since they Told me and didn't give me any sources to back up their statements I cant prove it. Really what it boils down for me is why feed hotter more expensive feeds when you don't need to? A dog should be fed according to its nutritional needs, why feed 30/20 to a kennel dog? On the flip side why feed a 20/10 to preserve guide dog in the middle of winter? Personally I believe that folks get to wound up about what, and when to feed their dogs. Pick ONE, quality, affordable feed and see how the dog does on it. Most animals are going to do fine on any number of quality feeds that are available today. If we all only took as much care with what WE ate maybe we all would be in good enough shape to own a pointer!

Rick Hall · Post by **Rick Hall** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:55 am

edited because there's something to the first line of my signature line

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:07 am

If it's a Walmart or Sam's brand it will be their formula. Purina makes it so it might be based on one of their feeds but Walmart always has things made to their specifications.

Ezzy

Hotpepper · Post by **Hotpepper** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:17 am

If you are hunting the dogs pretty hard, go with the chicken as I think it is higher in fat, I feed both according to what the activity level is. Have fed it for over10 years and it is just a great dog food. Going today to get 2 more bags. If you have an issue keeping weight on a dag, I would use the chicken formula.

Pepper

Neil Mace · Post by **Neil Mace** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:28 am

msrkennels wrote:They use to give coupon for a1.00 refund with each bag my check came from purina.

And when Purina ProPlan went to the plastic tubs for a while so did Exceed.

When you read the labels, they are the same, not nearly the same, the same.

I sometimes win ProPlan at trials, and mix it with Exceed, it does not look the same, I would guess a different extruder. But if it is not the same it is very close.

I fear that since ProPlan changed so will Exceed, it is already up to $25.00 a 44 lb bag.

Neil

shags · Post by **shags** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:15 am

Concerning dietary protein and kidney problems, here's a link. It concurs with what my vet has told me; we've had some experience with kidney failure, unfortunately

http://www.tailblazerspets.com/tailblaz ... cles4.html

Rick Hall · Post by **Rick Hall** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:29 am

Neil Mace wrote:
msrkennels wrote:They use to give coupon for a1.00 refund with each bag my check came from purina.
And when Purina ProPlan went to the plastic tubs for a while so did Exceed.

When you read the labels, they are the same, not nearly the same, the same.

I sometimes win ProPlan at trials, and mix it with Exceed, it does not look the same, I would guess a different extruder. But if it is not the same it is very close.

I fear that since ProPlan changed so will Exceed, it is already up to $25.00 a 44 lb bag.

Neil

Neil, please do me the favor of checking an Exceed bag for the use of beet pulp as an ingredient - or, better still, scan an ingredient list for us.

Setter · Post by **Setter** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:30 pm

Since a dog is by nature largely a carnivore as also seen by its relatively short digestive tract, than why is a “hot” high protein diet bad for them? I mean they are design to eat very large percentages of meat by nature??? Always found that a confusing point when it comes to the “too hot” discussion. Food for thought (I know bad pun

)

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:31 pm

They are not a true carnivore. Dods have always eaten a lot of vegetable matter. Plus you need to remember meat is 70% water and concequently is not high in protien in its natural state. Dried meat will run around 50% so fresh meat is only 10 to 20%.

Ezzy

hoosier · Post by **hoosier** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:54 pm

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to go with the lamb and rice. It's what I fed before Pro Plan Chicken and Rice.

I tried to support the company that supported us (trialers / hunters) but in my opinion they have made it tough to do these days. It would be interesting to see how their sales are over the next year.

Kevin WI · Post by **Kevin WI** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:27 pm

Been feeding chix/rice 30/20 to my dogs for quite a few years....they've done well on it. Only 2 cups a day. I train 3 days a week at least in the summer so he is active all year.....wintertime I may switch for awhile to lamb/rice as this is the least active time.

Killer Instinct · Post by **Killer Instinct** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:04 pm

ok, where's Big Steve?...I'd figured he would have chimed in by now

I'll see the Vet tomorrow, so I'll have to ask her about the 30/20 year around & the kidney funtion - wasn't aware of it.... (Shoot, I work for a Nephrologist - might have to ask her opinion ... I can just see her expression now ....)

Neil Mace · Post by **Neil Mace** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:28 pm

Sorry, Rick, I scaned it ok, but then can't find it to paste.

No beep pulp.

I don't have a ProPlan bag around, but the last time I had one and compared them, they were the same. And I do not recall if beet pulp was in the Lamb and Rice ProPlan, is it?

Neil

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:50 pm

Here I am by popular demand. It is true most dogs do well on most good feeds. I have not fed any pro-plan for many years, and I have never fed exceed, so I have stayed away from some of this discussion. Most of your good brands have similar ingredients and similar processing and quality. I see nothing wrong with feeding a 30-20 year around, if you feed that dog less volume when it is not working hard. Good feed with good protein sources are not likely to damage kidneys. There are exceptions and certain dogs may have special needs. I think, unless you are dealing with a disease or pathology, that you get better advice from experienced people on these threads than you do most Vets when it comes to feed. There is not a one size fits all when it comes to dog food, but neither do you need to go looking for exotic expensive products.

Pineywoods · Post by **Pineywoods** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:28 am

I have feed Purina Pro Plan Performance year round (30/20)for a couple of years now. Before that Precise 30/20 and before that Diamond 30/20 and before that Maximum 30/20 (a Wal Mart brand). So I have been feeding a 30/20 feed for Eight years. I started after reading a report on a long term study done on 300 sled dogs in Alaska by Purina. I think it was 300 it was eight years ago I read the report it was in Gun Dog or Pointing Dog Journal. I do remember the group that was feed the highest protein 32% had the fewest soft tissue injures while the lowest protein had the most. They also said that when you change the protein level of the feed it takes up to six months for the dog to fully adjust. I also have talked to a 6 or 7 vets over the years and they have all said the same thing. If the dog does not have kidney problems it will not be a problem. I still have the magazine the report is in I will look it up and give the issue. I have had no problems with my dogs and they don't even get over weight in the summer they seem to eat less of this feed and make a lot less stool and can handle the heat a lot better than dogs I see that are on lower protein feeds part of the year. As for the change in the size of the bag I'm not happy about that but a 2 1/2 # smaller bag is not a deal breaker for me. As for the formula change I was told two weeks ago by the owner of the feed store I trade with (a very high volume dealer that sells to a lot of plantations) that two days before two Purina reps.had been in his store and told him the formula changes were for all feeds except Pro Plan Performance and Pro Plan Puppy chow.
As these are the only two I feed I guess I dodged a bullet there and with the weight circles on the Pro club (12 cents per pound) and I can find it any were I might travel to on a hunting trip I still think its my best option.
Benjie Mills.

Rick Hall · Post by **Rick Hall** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:04 am

Neil Mace wrote:Sorry, Rick, I scaned it ok, but then can't find it to paste.

No beep pulp.

I don't have a ProPlan bag around, but the last time I had one and compared them, they were the same. And I do not recall if beet pulp was in the Lamb and Rice ProPlan, is it?

Neil

Thank you, Neil. Back when I could still get it close by, Wally World's Maximum Nutrition 30/20 (a "chicken and rice" formula) was as close to interchangeable with PP's 30/20 as I could find. Little looser stools (especially one year), it seemed, but better than the piles from other, more expensive, "premiums" we tried. If memory serves, the formulas, if not the farmed-out processing were essentially the same.

Haven't tried Exceed because Sam's is the same 2-hour round-trip distant as the nearest PP dealer, but with costs being what they are, I believe I may give it a shot.

Killer Instinct · Post by **Killer Instinct** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:44 am

Rick Hall wrote:
Neil Mace wrote:Sorry, Rick, I scaned it ok, but then can't find it to paste.

No beep pulp.

I don't have a ProPlan bag around, but the last time I had one and compared them, they were the same. And I do not recall if beet pulp was in the Lamb and Rice ProPlan, is it?

Neil

....... Little looser stools (especially one year), it seemed, but better than the piles from other, more expensive, "premiums" we tried......quote]

Gee, Rick, Where's the pic of stools & toes???? ....

Rick Hall · Post by **Rick Hall** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:21 am

Dang! Not a single Maximum Nutrition turd in the photo file. Shame on me.

Chaingang · Post by **Chaingang** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:22 am

topher40 wrote:Dont worry thats a good question I didnt think you were trying to confrontational. The only facts that I have are what a couple of dog food nutritionist have TOLD me. They work at Del Monte in R&D and do this stuff for a living. Unfortunately since they Told me and didn't give me any sources to back up their statements I cant prove it.

Everything that I have found seems to refute what Rick posted. There are no studies linking high protein diets in dogs with HEALTHY kidneys to renal failure. The studies that were done in my understanding were were not even done using dogs.

The original studies that were done were done on rats. As the article stated, rats do on excrete high amounts of protein very well, they are plant eaters. I hate to bring up the old "wolf" analogy again, but take a look at the average diet of a wolf and I bet you that it would contain fairly high amounts of protein. It's what mother nature intended them to eat. Anyways, this is not the actual study, but an interesting read none the less. It does list some references as to their statements though. Is it the truth? who knows.

Here is just one link out of many that seem to say the same thing. You be the judge.
http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/protein.html

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:34 am

but take a look at the average diet of a wolf and I bet you that it would contain high amounts of protein throughout their lives. It is what mother nature intended them to eat.

Remember the wolf is eating fresh meat that is 75% water and is somewhere between 10 to 20% protien. A fresh raw diet will normally be less than 20% protien and not the 30% we feed today.

Ezzy

Rick Hall · Post by **Rick Hall** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:15 pm

Chaingang wrote:
topher40 wrote:Dont worry thats a good question I didnt think you were trying to confrontational. The only facts that I have are what a couple of dog food nutritionist have TOLD me. They work at Del Monte in R&D and do this stuff for a living. Unfortunately since they Told me and didn't give me any sources to back up their statements I cant prove it.
Everything that I have found seems to refute what Rick posted. There are no studies linking high protein diets in dogs with HEALTHY kidneys to renal failure. The studies that were done in my understanding were were not even done using dogs.

The original studies that were done were done on rats. As the article stated, rats do on excrete high amounts of protein very well, they are plant eaters. I hate to bring up the old "wolf" analogy again, but take a look at the average diet of a wolf and I bet you that it would contain fairly high amounts of protein. It's what mother nature intended them to eat. Anyways, this is not the actual study, but an interesting read none the less. It does list some references as to their statements though. Is it the truth? who knows.

Here is just one link out of many that seem to say the same thing. You be the judge.
http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/protein.html

Whoa, now, that doesn't "refute what Rick posted". For the record, Rick said:

I AM NOT A CANINE NUTRITIONIST, but it's my understanding that those who are have tried to put the common notion that high protein can create kidney problems to rest. Might not be good for dogs with existing kidney problems, but isn't a detriment to dogs without them.

...and can get himself in plenty of trouble without outside help.

Chaingang · Post by **Chaingang** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:48 pm

Sorry Rick

, the only thing out of that I was concurring with you was this

Might not be good for dogs with existing kidney problems, but isn't a detriment to dogs without them.

Until one actually can see the original studies, those links are just hearsay. They make a good case though.

Neil Mace · Post by **Neil Mace** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:17 pm

Rick,

You are a lot of trouble, but what is a dog guy to do when it is raining.

I found a ProPlan Chicken and Rice bag, and when compared to the Exceed Lamp and Rice, other than the chicken in place of rice, they are nearly the same. Now the order is different, and if it is like people ingredients, the most going first, I think that might be significant. The only differnece to my untrained eye is that ProPlan has dried egg product as the 12th ingredient and Exceed does not have any that I could find.

No beet pulp in either, I still don't know if that is good or bad.

Here is what I do know the performance, endurance, coat, stool have all been the same on Exceed as ProPlan. And since I spend more time shoveling crap than running dogs, the tight stool is very important.

Neil

Rick Hall · Post by **Rick Hall** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:55 pm

That ain't nothin' compared to most of the trouble I'm in. Thanks for taking the time.

Killer Instinct · Post by **Killer Instinct** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:55 pm

Neil Mace wrote:.......And since I spend more time shoveling crap than running dogs, the tight stool is very important.

Neil

I feel the same way (tight stools), that's why I had switched from Nutro to Exceed (plus it's cheaper).... I did contact Purina & left my info for them to contact me regarding feeding a High Protein diet and possible association with Renal Failure... they are suppose to email me within 5-7 days - we will see if they will!

westexasrepublic · Post by **westexasrepublic** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:18 am

keep us posted, untill then I think im headed to sams for a bag of Exceed, I wish I would have known earlier, I used to buy pro plan but cant afford it anymore, this alternative is exactly what I have been looking for during hunting season.

shootist · Post by **shootist** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:57 pm

Is exceed switching to the shredded blend?

brittfans · Post by **brittfans** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:19 pm

I fed exceed for near 10 years.Last winter my dogs refused to eat it they would just pick up a piece and spit it out.after two days I had bought two bags so I tried the other bag.they would eat it but they didnt finish a cup ful.My brother that shops at a diffrent store aked me if I was having any trouble with exceed because his dog was having loose stools and didnt want to eat his food. My trouble was the phone number on the bag is for sams. they wanted to refund my money wich was nice but I wanted to report it or find out if they were having troubles with it. Sams said they would contact the company and someone would get back to me, Im still waiting.I have switched to diamond maintanace my dogs eat it and their coats look better I do have to make sure I dont over feed because it will cause loose stools if I do .If I have trouble or a question the phone number is on the bag and they have a web site .

Razor · Post by **Razor** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:36 pm

I believe that Exceed is now bagged by Iams.

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:45 pm

Well, I have just started 2 litters on the 30/20 Exceed. I have to say they did GREAT, I never even fed it wet, just had it in for Mom and let pups start eating it dry when they were ready. They loved it and look great on it. Two thumbs up for training dogs, our dogs, and now pups!

BirdieBoiler · Post by **BirdieBoiler** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:48 pm

I feed my GSP the Chicken Formula and she does very well on it. Loves it!