gsp seizures... help!!!

[collinedward]

I have a 4y/o large gsp 80 to 87lbs that I couldn't imagine being in better shape .I'm going to try to give as much info as I can .I feed him about 8 cups a day of regular Purina Dog Chow. He gets plenty of excercise.From time to time I give him imodium to calm his stomach before a hunt .
About a month ago we were hunting for about three or four hours everthing was good until the dog collasped and had a seizure. No visible signs in performance before the seizure. Scary as heck if you have never seen one. Took him to the vet a couple days later and he said he was healthy as he could be. Ok today we were hunting for about 5 or 6 hours , towards the end I notice he was moving pretty slow and was kinda spacey. He wasn't listening very well and seemed like he was having trouble seeing me . So we headed back to the truck and before we got back he collasped and had a seizure. Now he is tired and still alittle out of it, but alot better.

First could this be from dehydration?
Could this be Hunting dog hypoglycemia ?

[snips]

I would try giving him a dose of Karo syrup nite before and a little before he hunts.

[postoakshorthairs]

I'm with brenda..sounds like hypoglycemia. I'm not a vet but i've taken care of humans for 20 years and they'll get disoriented and even have seizures when their sugar gets low. Your brain needs a certain level of "sugar" to function properly and when it gets low it doesn't function correctly. It sounds like the issue is at the end of a longer outing...I wonder if a snack in the middle would help like one of the small supplement bars for dogs??

[Sharon]

I have a 4y/o large gsp 80 to 87lbs that I couldn't imagine being in better shape .I'm going to try to give as much info as I can .I feed him about 8 cups a day of regular Purina Dog Chow. He gets plenty of excercise.From time to time I give him imodium to calm his stomach before a hunt .
About a month ago we were hunting for about three or four hours everthing was good until the dog collasped and had a seizure. No visible signs in performance before the seizure. Scary as heck if you have never seen one. Took him to the vet a couple days later and he said he was healthy as he could be. Ok today we were hunting for about 5 or 6 hours , towards the end I notice he was moving pretty slow and was kinda spacey. He wasn't listening very well and seemed like he was having trouble seeing me . So we headed back to the truck and before we got back he collasped and had a seizure. Now he is tired and still alittle out of it, but alot better.

First could this be from dehydration?
Could this be Hunting dog hypoglycemia ?

Why were you" giving him imodium before a hunt to calm his stomach?"quote

[collinedward]

I give him imodium because he gets diarrhea in the mornings if we go hunting ...
So snacks and karo syrup should help right?
I think i will leave the imodium alone too...

[romeo212000]

Dogs having loose stools in the mornings during a hunt is natural. They have been riding in a box for a while likely, are excited about going somewhere new and are out running hard right off the bat, so everything in the intestine is getting jolted around. I personally would not worry about the immodium if his stools are fine every other time. I have one female who's stools look as good as any you will find, but take her out to hunt or to a trial and I promise you that dog will have loose stools. As for the seizures I would say hypoglycemia.

[ezzy333]

The loose stool is nothing more than the dog empting the bowel so it can run. Remember the discussions we have had about feeding and this is related to what happens when you feed before exercise. Thats why it is a waste to feed before besides danderous since the dog will empty the whole digestive track if it can. Early movements mean the water content will be high and the stool will be loose. Just a normal thing with them.

Ezzy

[MikeB]

I agree with the others too about low blood sugar. I am also concerned about 8 cups of food per day. I would change to another formula of Purina like Pro Plan or another performance brand that is high calorie and would be more efficient to feed. Most of the higher quality foods, yes they cost more per pound, but you can feed much less. 4 - 5 cups a day for a 100 lb dog in some cases. I would think that one of the Diamond or Diamond Naturals formulas would work very well and be cost effective too.

[romeo212000]

8 cups of food per day is way too much. Are you feeding once a day or more than once a day? An 87 lb GSP is huge. Even your big ones don't usually get much over 60 lbs. My heaviest one weighs about 50 lbs and at the very most she gets 4 cups of food a day, and that's before a trial or hunt. I would consider changing food if you are having to feed that much to maintain him. Also without seeing the dog I can only guess but I am guessing the dog may be a little over fed. You should be able to see the last two ribs and just make out the hip bones. What kind of figure does your dog have?

[ezzy333]

I would suggest you just cut back on the amount of feed you are feeding. Sounds like the dog loves the food you are feeding and is just plain overeating. Remember you need to watch the condition of the dog to determine how much to feed and it sounds like you may be overfeeding. It won't hurt the dog to be a little hungry and chnging feeds won't make a difference in that area.

Follow what the people have told you about giving sugary snacks while hunting and see if it helps. Sounds very much like it should.

Ezzy

[Hotpepper]

I have owned and hunted dogs with low blood sugar and the symptoms sound the same as mine. When we were going hunting, I gave him a tablespoon full of honey on his food and that ended the problem. I did that for his whole lifetime.

I agree, 8 cups is way too much, I have allage dogs and the most they ever get is 4 cups when we are working them hard. Dog Chow is OK but there are a lot better feeds out there and I have fed Exceed from Sam's for over 10 years. The yellow and Black bag is just great for mine. Stools, coat, energy, etc are all wonderful. Turns them into easy keepers.

If the dog gobbles down his food, you run the risk of torsh, put a couple of gold balls in the food and it will slow him down.

Hope my suggestions help you. At 86 lbs I feel he will destroy his joints.

Good Luck

Pepper

[collinedward]

Im sorry I feed him 5 1/2 cups to six a day . He always eats like he has never ate before. As far as his physique you can see his last 2 or 3 ribs and his hip bones.

[collinedward]

He is just a big boy that has alot muscle..

[MikeB]

Well here are some comparisons on dog food. When you really look at the ingredients you can see a huge difference.
I do believe you could add some Karo or Honey to the meal day before and day of hunting and give more 4 hours into hunting too if needed. I am sure that would solve the seizures. A change of food is in order too.

Purina Dog Chow. It is only 21% protein and 10% fat. Certainly not enough for most field dogs to maintain good weight and health. Could be part of the problem.
Ingredients
Whole grain corn, poultry by-product meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), corn gluten meal, meat and bone meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, barley, whole grain wheat, animal digest, calcium carbonate, salt, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, added color (Red 40, Yellow 5, Blue 2, Yellow 6), DL-Methionine, manganese sulfate, manganese proteinate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, copper proteinate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite.
S-4101

Diamond Naturals Adult Chicken Rice Formula - 26% Protein 16% Fat. Feeding an 80 - 100# dog 4 to 4.5 cups a day
http://www.diamondpet.com/products/diamond_naturals/

Ingredients:
Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, white rice, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), oatmeal, beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, potassium chloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

DIAMOND PREMUIM ADULT (Green Bag) - 26 P - 18% F - Feeding an 80 - 100 lb. dog 3 3/4 - 4 1/3 cups a day.
INGREDIENTS:
Chicken by-product meal, whole grain ground corn, wheat flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), brewers rice, beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal. Vitamins, minerals and chelated minerals

DIAMOND PERFORMANCE (Black Bag) 30% P 20% F - Feed an 80 -100 lb dog 3 - 3 2/3 cups a day.
INGREDIENTS:
Chicken, chicken by-product meal, whole grain ground corn, wheat flour, egg product, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), beet pulp, fish meal, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, brewers dried yeast. Vitamins, minerals, chelated minerals and supplements

Even the KIrkland Chicken Rice 26/16 at Costco is great food for the price. $23.00 for 40#
much like the Diamond Naturals Chicken/rice for less money.

[GsPJustin]

5 1/2 - 6 is a lot different than 8... 87 lbs is pretty big(the gsp I grew up with was just shy of 80), it depends on the lines. I can't say much about FT lines. But Hunting lines have heavy dogs. I don't think I could say I have personally seen a full grown Male GSP under 60lbs, 55-70 is the standard... I wont say what I am thinking...and if you can see 2 or 3 ribs you are probably fine as you are. I do agree with MikeB though. You could find a different feed with more dense ingredients that you wont have to feed as much of.

[romeo212000]

There's really no difference between hunting lines and FT lines. All of your hunting dogs have FT lines in them. The difference in size usually comes from German lines vs. American lines. The German lines are excellent for your average foot hunters because the hunt at comfortable range, and have excellent instincts and bird finding abilities and ability to retrieve. The American lines are usually a little smaller in size but run faster and harder. As for size was speaking of females. I should have specified that. The males from the lines I am familar with usually hang around 60 lbs.

[collinedward]

Thanks for all your help..I will see how he does this weekend.I switched to Diamond food and I bought some high protein snacks for the field.. I will give him some Karo syrup in the morning and thru out the day ... Thanks again...

[ezzy333]

Don't over do it. Remember a little dab will do you.

Ezzy

[Greg Jennings]

87 lbs is HUGE.

In addition to what else has been said, sometime when you're in the vet's office, get a thyroid check. Should cost like $35 and be very good information for you to have.

[collinedward]

Last time at the vet he check his blood and thyroid, all was good..
Greg Jennings I live pretty close to you..I live in Xenia and work in Franklin..

[birdhunt]

when my boykin was 9mo old(she is 9 yrs old now), she went down on me during a workout............I wouldn't call it a seizure, but her rear end gave out and collapsed.............it still happens, she starts getting wobbly and staggers some before she goes down, which I can spot and stop her...........after about 4-5 minutes she is fine......I have found that it happens mainly when it is warm, and/or if she uses a super amount of energy---like chasing a cripple down...........I use a lot of water to try and keep her cool, and if at all posible I work her towards a water supply............I usually hunt western Kansas early in the season, and water is scarce, so I carry a lot..............I really have to watch her dove hunting here in Ohio because of the heat.
when she was 9mo I had lot of tests done, and short of invasive tests, it was determined that she had hypoglycemia........I was told a blood test would have to be done after(during) extensive excercise to be sure...............
I have tried everything when she goes down, honey is probably the easiest for me, as I carry some packets like you see in resturants...........I give her pieces of energy bars, I give biscuts with that tooth paste type energy supplement on them......
all in all, it is the heat that is my dog's worst enemy, and after 9 years we pretty well have the problem under controll............water, water, water, that is my remedy......

[natel24]

this may have nothing to do with your dogs seizures but may be something to be aware of. my parents live out in the country and their yard has maybe 150 trees on it and maybe 1/5 of those being walnut trees. we used to have the scariest lookin mut that we got as a stray, he was a black lab chow mix, to the best of our knowledge, and he looked like a 100lb black bear. anyways when he was a 5 or 6 he started having seizures quite often. took him to the vet and the vet asked what type of trees we had and she said that if a dog eats a lot of walnuts especially rotten ones that it can cause seizures. we also had one yellow lab that had them after that. but since then we have had to pick up the walnuts as they fall for safety. and i'm talking maybe 25 wheelbarrow loads. and no more seizures.

[collinedward]

Thanks you guys....I changed his food to Diamond and I started giving a little bit of Karo syrup and treats thru out the day ..All seems to be good .Thank you everyone.

[snips]

I definetly do not think Walnuts have anything to do with seizures. We have Walnut trees over each kennel (hence Walnut Hill Kennel) with no problems. If anything I think it helps in fleas and ticks. I once had someone leave a natural heartworm preventitive for their dog that was Walnut extract.

[ezzy333]

I definetly do not think Walnuts have anything to do with seizures. We have Walnut trees over each kennel (hence Walnut Hill Kennel) with no problems. If anything I think it helps in fleas and ticks. I once had someone leave a natural heartworm preventitive for their dog that was Walnut extract.

I had them over my kennel for years and still have them in the yard and never had a problem.

Ezzy

[wems2371]

I have always heard about the toxicity of walnuts in regard to horses, but never dogs. I too have quite a few walnut trees and have never had a problem with horses or dogs, but then I don't have a dog eating them either. Since this thread, I figured I better go check it out, and it seems like the rotting hulls or moldy walnuts are the issue mentioned repeatedly in causing seizures and other veterinary emergencies...not the nut itself.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p51 ... pdf?page=1
(Unfortunately you have to pay to see the whole paper. )

http://www.vetmed.vt.edu/engagement/ext ... es_115.pdf
(page 4 Tremorgens)

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/poison-co ... alnut.html