English Pointer driving us nuts-allergies-HELP

[mercer5]

Hello all, I am new to the forum and happy to have found it! I have a 4 year old male EP that most recently got into rat posion, $2000 later he is fine. The real issue is his constant scratching. Here is what I have done so far, this year is seems to have gotten worse and he is a little DEVIL now, his behavior is terrible.
1. Had blood test done and sent to Spectrum Labs. He is allergic to beef, chicken, pork, cotton, grasses (4), soybean,corn, rice,peanut, ragweed, housedust/mites etc.
2.Changed food to Natural Balance Sweet Potato & fish.
3. Use fish oil daily.
4. NO tablescraps.
5. Currently on Temaril-P to keep things quiet, although not really working
6. My current trainer has his brother with no issues.
7 Neutered.
8. Starting tonight with some apple cider vinegar

He has been scratching his ears to the point where he is losing hair, his tail is currently broke open, he licks his feet, chews on his legs and rubs against the furniture. PLUS as I said his behavior has gotten worse, he is constantly stealing food off the table, getting into everyones garbage, acting more mental than normal!

Before I go to a Dermatologist and spend $$$$ can anyone give me any ideas???

Desperate !!
Jim

[MikeB]

Jim,
This is very sad to hear. Please understand You would act this way too if you itched like crazy all the time. Poor dog can't concentrate on anything but stopping the itching. It's driving HIM crazy believe me.

Questions...

Did this allergy problem start after the rat poison incident? How long ago was that?

"Currently on Temaril-P to keep things quiet" What is that and what is it suposed to keep quiet? His itching/scratching?

How long ago did you change the food?

What are you doing for the rest of his allergy areas like cotton, grasses and dust mites?

I would seriously consider feeding a raw diet and research web sites and message boards that support raw feeding. It may be your only real answer to the food issue but not all the issues.

[mercer5]

He started prior to rat posion incident, I asked vet and they said it should not be related.
Temaril-P is a steroid and antihistamine in 1 pill, I have used it before with good luck but not this time.
He has been on the different food for 6 months, there is a newer food out now by Hills called z/d that is supposed to eliminate all allergens in food. They claim after 46 days on this food it will tell me if it is food related or not. If it is food related and this food works it cost $1.76 per day to feed my 45lb pointer !
Never heard of a raw diet, I'll look into this.
We are trying to keep him off all cotton, he is not allowed on furniture, we are snow covered now so grasses should not be an issue. Dust mites............hmmmm I'll have to ask my wife to help dust more often !

[claybuster_aa]

The natural antidote for the rat poison is vitamin K and it is in all dog foods. If your dog only ate a small amount probably would have been OK as soon as he started eating his food again and let the vitamin K work.

If you know by the blood test that your dog is allergic to all those in #1, then why do they want to try the Hills Z/D with the starter ingredient of starch as an elimination diet? Apparently they already know because of the blood work, but maybe they have their doubts like I do that you dog is allergic to beef and chicken and pork, etc.

The constant scratching if not fleas is probably reaction caused by too much grain in what you are feeding now. If your are feeding a grain-free type of food then I'm guessing still excess fiber but not from grain but plant matter that is causing the problems.

A raw diet was suggested and that will IMO no doubt put your dog back on track, but it is some work and probably more expensive than feeding a high quality food. If I were you, I would look into what I am feeding, Abady Classic Granular which is less work than raw, more powerful than a cup of raw, and no preparation, just scoop and feed. If you are interested learning more about Abady products, follow the links on my gun dog forum web page below and it will provide with more info. I don't mention this to everybody that comes along with a problem here obviously, but after your story and the money you've already spent, it's time to put all your cards on the table and do what's got to be done...feed your dog very, very well and your trouble should be over. I wish you the best with your dog. Charlie

[natetnc]

He is allergic to beef, chicken, pork, cotton, grasses (4), soybean,corn, rice,peanut, ragweed, housedust/mites etc.

he is constantly stealing food off the table, getting into everyones garbage

sounds like the two above are related, you need to keep your dog out of the trash. keep him kenneled or under constant supervision, if he is getting into the trash i bet there are things in the list above that are in there. the temeril-p worked great for my pup who is allergic to something around my geo area in september, then switched to benedryl after the worst of it was taken care of. before doing anything i would give it at least a week of KNOWING he hasn't gotten anything in the list above and see if his condition improves.

[mercer5]

Thanks Charlie, I called Abady and they will call me back, its lunchtime. I was on their site and it all makes sense. It could very well be the food and whats in it. My vet is pretty good, she does not push expensive tests and is more pro-holistic than most. After the rat posion incident and the board certified cardiologist (he had bleeding around the heart that was collapsing his heart) that thought everyone was a millionaire it is a pleasure to have a vet with an open mind.

I will try the Abady ASAP and let you know. I have had some sucess with the ACV so far, at least he seems more comfortable, other than stinking like a salad!

thanks a ton
Jim

[ezzy333]

If you can't make the dog comfortable then I would think strongly of putting him down. I know that is hard to do but I think much better than having him itch for the rest of his life. It just sounds like you have an insurmountable road ahead with that many allergies.

Ezzy

[dog dr]

if you cant keep him from stealing off the table or getting into the garbage, then there isnt any food out there that will help him (assuming his main issue is food allergies). did your vet discuss the hyposensitization shots from Spectrum labs??

[1vizsla]

Stay away from the Z/D food...it has chicken in it and since that was one of the things listed... We had the same problem with our dog and we finally went to a raw diet and it helped. Believe it or not we also went to a chinese hebalist/DVM that did accupuncture and a few herbs that seemed to help for a little while. Email me if you want to get into the gory details.

Carla

[birddogsunlimited]

i have a gsp with food allergys she was put on purina ha for 3 months to get her system back to normal its a bit expensive a 35# bag runs about a hundred bucks but after finding what she was alergic to i was able to switch her to dimond lamb and rice wich cost me 28 and some change for a 44lb bag. the bigest thing is you cant let them have any thing other than the specified food not treats nothing like that and keeping them out of the trash is verry important as well.

[claybuster_aa]

Thanks Charlie, I called Abady and they will call me back, its lunchtime. I was on their site and it all makes sense. It could very well be the food and whats in it. My vet is pretty good, she does not push expensive tests and is more pro-holistic than most. After the rat posion incident and the board certified cardiologist (he had bleeding around the heart that was collapsing his heart) that thought everyone was a millionaire it is a pleasure to have a vet with an open mind.

I will try the Abady ASAP and let you know. I have had some sucess with the ACV so far, at least he seems more comfortable, other than stinking like a salad!

thanks a ton
Jim

Reminds me a person I helped several years back from PA. A real nice lady with a bunch of dogs (show dogs/ GSDs).
When the menu foods gluten recall was in full swing, I posted a customer memo from Abady explaining Gluten protein has been avoided for many years and does not apply to the products and no affiliation with Menu foods. Some of her dogs were having problems and she was very, very concerned. She had one dog being a problem child, plagued with all the allergies from A-Z and got all the warnings from her Vet and nutritionist that your dog will not do well on Abady. She called Abady and explained about her dog with the issues and all the warnings. Abady told her dogs are simply NOT allergic to my foods and there is nothing in there that will hurt your dog. She decided to go into it regardless of the warnings and she was amazed that her 10 years old dog with all the issues was running around like a pup again. Jim, I would never steer you in the wrong direction, and I have complete confidence that if you stick with this your problems will be over, and trips to the Vet outside of routine will become a thing of the past.

Being it is very rich and probably a lot more animal source proteins than what you dog is use to now, expect some diarrhea and it can get serious. Some get discouraged early and give up, but if you give it time, the diarrhea will pass and your dogs stools with become normal. I did the transition gradual with mixing, but if I had to do it over again I would try cold turkey method. Things were OK with my dog during the first week of mixing, but when I went full strength, the diarrhea came on strong, and lasted about a week. Your dogs enzymes now are only strong enough to match what is needed for the current diet. Your dog will produce the needed enzymes to break down the new food but that can take a little time. You can purchase digestive enzymes (talk to Abady about this) to mix with the food in the beginning to ease the transition to the stronger diet.

Stealing food off the table, garbage can tipping around the neighborhood...your dog is on a mission to find what is needed
to satisfy the stomach. Once fully assimilated on this product, that should start to come under control because you dog will be fully nourished. Start with the suggested feeding tables for your dogs weight and stick with that amount. It may be consumed quickly at first because the body has some catching up to do, but it time you may notice leaving some food behind in the bowls. No problem, just let it sit until consumed. Give it a few weeks and you will notice changes in both appearance and behavior. Give it a full 30 days before making a decision whether or not you think it is for your dog, but I think you will be very pleased with the results. It may seem expensive but they will consume less product that other diets and you may fine a lot less trips to the Vet. Please check back here and let us know how it is going!

Charlie

[dog dr]

dont know why i didnt th9ink about this before, but Spectrum labs should have sent you a printout listing a number of different dog foods your dog could eat and not have a reaction to.

[mercer5]

I did get the list from Spectrum and thats is what I think is the problem. I have spoke to numerous people at Abady and am fully confident after talking to the one and only local provider that this will be my answer. We shared similar situations and he has had the same phenomonal success. After hearing all the bs aboput different foods it amazes me that I have not heard about Abady yet. I have great expectations for this and rest assured you will hear from em when I have a month or 2 in.
If all goes well I will be a die hard advocate for Abady. They defiently have the upper hand on what real "dog food" is.

I start tonight !!
The dog is already excited!

Stay tuned

Jim

ps. Thanks Charlie!

[ezzy333]

Many people and dogs wait to count their chickens after the eggs have hatched. Hope it works for you but remember there is no one company that is much better than the others.

Good luck,

Ezzy

[claybuster_aa]

I did get the list from Spectrum and thats is what I think is the problem. I have spoke to numerous people at Abady and am fully confident after talking to the one and only local provider that this will be my answer. We shared similar situations and he has had the same phenomonal success. After hearing all the bs aboput different foods it amazes me that I have not heard about Abady yet. I have great expectations for this and rest assured you will hear from em when I have a month or 2 in.
If all goes well I will be a die hard advocate for Abady. They defiently have the upper hand on what real "dog food" is.

I start tonight !!
The dog is already excited!

Stay tuned

Jim

ps. Thanks Charlie!

How far do you have to go for the local connection? I have 2 people within 20 minute drive, one at a kennel and the other at a pet store. 40-lb boxes of "classic" are popular around here, but I know Abady will probably steer you towards the pride and joy of the granular lineup, Maintenance and Stress. I'm paying about $65 for the "classic". There is a granular in between those two called BASIC granular. That's not a bad choice either. That may start off with chicken by-product meal like the classic, I'm not sure. Per cup, Classic and Maintenance and Stress are very close in calories (around 800). Basic, even though falls in between those two, was cranking out some cals, over 1000 per cup last time I bought a box. I stay within those 3 granulars but the classic is the easiest to get.

Are you going to go with those digestive enzymes? I think it is a good idea. I didn't know about that when I transitioned my dog over, but would have done it. It seemed like at one point every 15 minutes with the runs for like 24 hrs. It can get rough so be prepared.

I'm 100% confident it will work for you. First thing I think you will note is scratching should subside fairly quickly. I also think you will note some behavior changes as well. Calmer and more relaxed in some respects, it's tough to explain. Yes, he still may go for the box of pizza off the counter, it's people food. But, I think you will note some changes in demeanor, all positive.

[claybuster_aa]

Jim,
These are worth a read:

http://www.pinnaclepetsupply.com/switch.htm

http://www.pinnaclepetsupply.com/m_intro.htm

Charlie

[grousewoods]

mercer5
Good luck with the new food. can't wait to hear how it's going. Sounds like I may have to look into this myself. I have a FB that has the same thing going on, the vet said not to change the dog food that it will be OK. Checked with another and he said to start using salmon oil and not to change the food also, I have been using the oil and no change as of yet. claybuster thanks for the info.

[Chaingang]

I have a young dog who has seasonal atopic dermatitis (allergies). Had him into a Veterinary Dermatologists and he couldn't pin down what the offending allergens were with the skin testing so he suggested a product called "Atopica" by it's trade name. It's generic term is Cyclosporin. It's usually started out as a once a day dosage then tapered off to every other or even longer as the drug starts to work. I'm not sure how this would work for the food allergies your dog is experiencing, but for airborne or contact allergens it has definitely helped my dog. Down side is the cost, can be spendy depending on how long you need to use it. Up side.... no serious side affects that you may develop as with longtime steroid use.

Maybe Dog Dr could lend some insight on whether Atopica would help with an animal who suffers from both food and airborne allergies.

[MikeB]

Chaingang,
IF you can get a prescription from your vet you can buy the medication at any pharmacy. Costo pharmacy is about the best price around. Maybe Sams Club pharmacy too Check it out.

[mercer5]

Update as of today,
Dog no longer gets into garbage, no longer jumps up on counter, no longer steals food out of your hands, so he is definetely getting bette rnutrition. I have been on the VitalityA product for 2 weeks nows without issue. Now I am working on a possible STaph infection that might have resulted from his rat poison incident.................

stay tuned!

[claybuster_aa]

Vitality A product, never heard of that one. Is that a granular? If it is a granular, that is higher up the food chain than the ones I purchase. Classic, Basic, and Maintenance & Stress are more commonplace. If it is higher in cals than what I'm feeding, they just eat less. If I'm say 91.4% animal source proteins of that 30% protein core, your stuff could be 33% protein at 94.7 animal source, hypothetical numbers.

Your dog is going to be fine. Good behavior changes to note so far, that is a positive. I wouldn't be overly concerned about a rash/staph infection right now, because all that clear soon enough. I think right about now your going to be noting some appearance changes, leaner possibly, better tone and muscle. I think his demeanor will be a bit more relaxed, but aggressive when needed. They get excited as you know easily, the knock at the door, mailman, car pulling in the driveway, etc. You may notice confidence, good attentiveness and alertness, strong bark, etc., all improve as a result of very good nutrition.