Allergic reaction to Lepto

[bruns333]

Anyone on here have a hunting dog that showed any reaction to the Lepto vaccine. I took my 19 month gsp in to the vet for her annual shots and after we got home for about 30 minutes I checked on her and she had hives all over and her eyes and ears were swollen. I took her back to the vet and she got a steroid and benedryl shot. She already itches herself a lot and am sure this won't make her feel any better. Now if she is to get it again she has to be pretreated with the steroid shot. Is a lepto shot a must for a hunting dog? She also got her 3 year rabies and bordetella shot. Maybe she had the reaction due to getting them all in one visit.

Any thoughts?

Matt

[postoakshorthairs]

Matt,
I'm not a canine expert but have a fair amount of experience with humans. Most of the reactions to vaccinations that i've witnessed are due to the additives in the vaccine and not the vaccine itself. I have a reaction like that to some, not all, versions of the t.b. skin test solution. It's also complicated by the fact that the dog got all at once so you can't know which one caused the reaction.

[BigShooter]

A couple of thoughts. IMO dogs that itch a lot from allergies are likely pre-disposed to having more reactions & more severe reactions to vaccinations than supposedly "normal" dogs. Basically allergy symptoms are a reflection of an immune system that reacts more strongly to certain irritants than the average individual in a population does. Secondly, I believe it's a good idea to find out if there are lots of strains of any particular disease before you decide to vaccinate. Lepto has multiple strains and any one vaccine only creates immunity for one or two strains. Therefore some vets don't insist on or even recommend vaccination because it doesn't provide 100% protection, but the decision of course is always yours to make in consultation with your vet.

[postoakshorthairs]

couple of thoughts. IMO dogs that itch a lot from allergies are likely pre-disposed to having more reactions & more severe reactions to vaccinations than supposedly "normal" dogs. Basically allergy symptoms are a reflection of an immune system that reacts more strongly to certain irritants than the average individual in a population does

Good point. Also keep in mind that the body requires exposure to build the antibodies that cause a reaction...so the next time may be worse. Having said that, it could have been the re-exposure to the vaccines, and it's additives, that he already received that caused the reaction and not the lepto.

[wannabe]

I had a dog that reacted to his first lepto vaccine. He started whining and itching at the injection site almost immediately and within seconds he on the floor puking and pooping with his eyes rolled back in his head. I didn't have any epi or injectible benadryl on hand, so I called the vet and they were ready when I carried him through the door. After that reaction, I always gave him 2 benadryl before vaccinations, had epi on hand, and avoided the lepto vaccination.

[vzkennels]

I had a 10 wk old pup with a reaction.I knew almost imediately as I put the pup down,it just stood there looking ill.I sent my wife to the store for benadryl & when she returned the pups face had swollen one eye almost shut.I got to the vet right after they had left but called back one of the vets on her way home.Benadryl & steroids took care of it in a few days.They said to tell the next owners which I did & the vet had him call me before giving him another said just the change of brand usually helps so there was no problem after the first one.

[mcbosco]

The reaction to Lepto is very very common and can be severe. My vet doesn't give it because the risk where I live is about zero. You should talk to your vet about it next time because the vaccine has a very short immunity period and in the past the outbreaks of Lepto have not been the ones in the commercially available vaccines, at least last time I checked.

but in answer to your question a reaction is very common

i hope your dog feels better

[mcbosco]

http://www.weim.net/emberweims/Vaccine.html

check the Dodd's protocol, this woman is probably the most influential scientist out there in canine immunology.

sal

[BigShooter]

Nice reference. It's almost identical to my vet's vaccination recommendations.

[mcbosco]

Dodd's was considered a crack pot years ago but it turned out she was right....

[bruns333]

I am trying to find out how prevelant Lepto is in the Ohio area. I will be tempted not to give it to her next year. The shot seemed to work fine on her and only her one ear is still swollen up a little. Thanks for the information. I took a photo in the vets office before she got the shot. I will try to post it.

Matt

[Brittguy]

My vet is located in the Youngstown OH area. He does not give Lepto shots to his patiences. He said he has not seen a case in many years. He also qualilfied his statements with, since you have a hunting dog you may want to give the shot. I do not use the shot.

[mcbosco]

I am trying to find out how prevelant Lepto is in the Ohio area. I will be tempted not to give it to her next year. The shot seemed to work fine on her and only her one ear is still swollen up a little. Thanks for the information. I took a photo in the vets office before she got the shot. I will try to post it.

Matt

The CDC website should have info on lepto and look on ODH in Ohio. Apparantly lepto is very rare in Ohio, just two human cases from 2003 - 2007, similar to NJ. The number of canine cases might be different. Over half the 100-200 human cases in the US are reported in Hawaii.

It almost doesn't matter because the small number of outbreaks nationwide have involved a strain(s) of the bacteria that most of the vaccines don't include. There is also no cross-protection from strain to strain, so its somewhat of a crap-shoot. Plus, like lyme, the vaccine is good for only a few months.

To me, the risk/reward is not worth it, but if I lived on a hog farm in Florida I might reconsider.

[Morgan1330]

First, I'm not here to change anyone's mind, just to give some info and my experience. First, about the comment about only protecting 1or 2 strains - at least two of the main vaccines used today (Pfizer's vanguard and Ft. Dodge's Duramune) both contain 4 serovars of lepto. 2nd, lepto vaccines are reactive and can produce reactions - and you should be prepared to watch the dog after it's vaccinated. 3rd, lepto is definitely prevalent where I have lived in the past 10 years -Iowa and Nebraska, and the last vet conference I was at the speaker discussed how it is becoming more and more of a problem in city dogs with more raccoons, opposums, and skunks moving into city limits. 4th, lepto often goes undiagnosed by veterinarians because it can be difficult to pinpoint, and since they hadn't seen it in the past they're not always thinking of it as a diagnosis. Lastly, take Dr. Dodd's recommendations depending on where you live - she's in California where lepto isn't prevalent. That's also why she says this on her website:
Quote from Dr Jean Dodds: "This schedule is the protocol I recommend and should NOT be interpreted to mean that other protocols recommended by another veterinarian would be less satisfactory. It's a matter of professional judgement and choice."

Basically, if I lived in an area where it wasn't prevalent or had a house dog - I wouldn't be worrying about it. But I live in the Midwest and have dogs that travel and hunt all over the place, along with varmints around the neighborhood - so my dogs get vaccinated for lepto. It's all about deciding whether the risks outweigh the rewards, and I don't want to deal with a very sick dog and an expensive treatment of something I can vaccinate for. It definitely isn't a vaccine that everyone should be afraid of though - and is quite appropriate for certain dogs.

[wems2371]

For years, I had personally given my lab a combo shot with Lepto, not knowing any different and with no problems. Have to be honest that I didn't know what it was even specifically for, but just that it was in the shot mix. Then I got on this forum, with the purchase of my first gsp, and discovered where Lepto originates from. I live on 11 acres of timber and near a quarry with all sorts of wildlife, some of them even visiting my front porch. When it came time to give my first gsp her shots, the vet said he didn't like to give Lepto and didn't even have it on hand. We discussed it, and he said if I insisted, that he would order it just for me. I really like my vet, so I trusted his decision and went without, but it left a nervous feeling in my gut. It has been two years and another puppy now, and I got the call this summer from his office, saying Lepto is on the rise regionally and he is now recommending the shot. Again, I took his advice and got the shot, and we are reaction free with 3 dogs. I'm sure it varies by locale, but I certainly wouldn't discount the vaccine without further investigation. As a note, my vet is also an upland hunter with labs, so he knows the types of places and wildlife that we'll be mixing with.

Denise (eastern Iowa)

[Sharon]

My vet does the same type of research for me. She asks me where I'll be trialing and what States will probably be sending dogs to the Ontario Championships. She does the same for tics - "No ticks this month here so you can use the cheaper plain Advantage." It's great to have a vet with integrity .

[BigShooter]

Intervet & Schering-Plough both produce Lepto vaccines with two servovars of lepto. Here is one of many internet sites containing information and opinion regarding lepto and other vaccines: http://dogvaccine4less.com/v_news.htm . I believe more education is a good thing. As I said before:

the decision of course is always yours to make in consultation with your vet.

You need a vet you can trust. Unfortunately their incomes are affected in part by the vaccinations given by their offices. Doctors often have similar issues when making decisions on vaccinations, diagnostic x-rays, ultrasounds, etc. I'm very familiar with one third generation vet who the other vets in town have been trying to get rid of because he charges reasonable fees, avoids unnecessary tests & vaccinations & produces good results. As a matter of fact this vet got so fed up with what he perceived as the greed in his profession today that he wrote a book about how to take care of your pet and keep your vet expenses reasonable. He felt so strongly about helping pet owners keep their vet costs reasonable that he paid for the publishing costs himself & is unlikely to ever make much of a profit on his book and doesn't care either.

This is not to say all vets are greedy & can't be trusted. Personally I believe most of them are very professional. It's just too bad the nature of the beast is the financial impact of their recommendations affects their income. So I say do some reading on your own, get educated & don't be afraid to have a good discussion with a vet about any recommendation you have questions about.

[dog dr]

First, I'm not here to change anyone's mind, just to give some info and my experience. First, about the comment about only protecting 1or 2 strains - at least two of the main vaccines used today (Pfizer's vanguard and Ft. Dodge's Duramune) both contain 4 serovars of lepto. 2nd, lepto vaccines are reactive and can produce reactions - and you should be prepared to watch the dog after it's vaccinated. 3rd, lepto is definitely prevalent where I have lived in the past 10 years -Iowa and Nebraska, and the last vet conference I was at the speaker discussed how it is becoming more and more of a problem in city dogs with more raccoons, opposums, and skunks moving into city limits. 4th, lepto often goes undiagnosed by veterinarians because it can be difficult to pinpoint, and since they hadn't seen it in the past they're not always thinking of it as a diagnosis. Lastly, take Dr. Dodd's recommendations depending on where you live - she's in California where lepto isn't prevalent. That's also why she says this on her website:
Quote from Dr Jean Dodds: "This schedule is the protocol I recommend and should NOT be interpreted to mean that other protocols recommended by another veterinarian would be less satisfactory. It's a matter of professional judgement and choice."

Basically, if I lived in an area where it wasn't prevalent or had a house dog - I wouldn't be worrying about it. But I live in the Midwest and have dogs that travel and hunt all over the place, along with varmints around the neighborhood - so my dogs get vaccinated for lepto. It's all about deciding whether the risks outweigh the rewards, and I don't want to deal with a very sick dog and an expensive treatment of something I can vaccinate for. It definitely isn't a vaccine that everyone should be afraid of though - and is quite appropriate for certain dogs.

thank you for an intelligent, well informed post!

[mcbosco]

There was an outbreak in New York City recently but even "vaccinated" dogs got it, just my two cents.

[BigShooter]

First, I'm not here to change anyone's mind, just to give some info and my experience. First, about the comment about only protecting 1or 2 strains - at least two of the main vaccines used today (Pfizer's vanguard and Ft. Dodge's Duramune) both contain 4 serovars of lepto. It's all about deciding whether the risks outweigh the rewards, and I don't want to deal with a very sick dog and an expensive treatment of something I can vaccinate for. It definitely isn't a vaccine that everyone should be afraid of though - and is quite appropriate for certain dogs.

Overall a good post as far as it went.

Additional info: there are over 200 servovars of Lepto that have been identified worldwide and at least 8 that are known to cause disease in dogs. I will repeat, get educated, read up on Lepto on the internet. Consult with a local vet that you trust & understand that no current vaccination will provide your animal with 100% protection. Never-the-less I believe it goes without saying that any reasonable person, educated about Lepto & vaccination, will factor in the likelihood their dog may be exposed and the risks versus the rewards.