Fat = energy so what do you use?

[Scott Linden]

I'm liking a certain new dog food, 33% protein (chicken meal and fish) but only 17% fat. Way lower than my dogs are used to. If it continues to work well, I'll simply add fat when needed. One vet says olive oil. Another, butter. Gotta be simple as we'll be on the road a lot. Ideas?

[mcbosco]

Coconut oil...it is a solid and easy to transport. It also won't cause any digestive issues because it is digested like a carbohydrate more or less. You might also want to try Impact, that is a powdered supplement but it also has a ton of protein in it.

I would go with Coconut Oil. It is the easiest to deal with and very healthy.

33/17 sounds like a grain-free food.

[ezzy333]

I add any vegetable oil and it works well. Don't think you will find a difference that you can see with one oil against another. You are just adding fat and fat is pretty much fat except for cholesterol which isn't a problem for a dog.

Ezzy

[Sharon]

I wonder why dogs don't have cholesterol problems but people do? Some scientist should do a study on that or if they have I 'd like to read it.

[ezzy333]

I wonder why dogs don't have cholesterol problems but people do? Some scientist should do a study on that or if they have I 'd like to read it.

We have it because we don't do enough physical labor anymore. Dog maybe still do.

Ezzy

[sully511]

I wonder why dogs don't have cholesterol problems but people do? Some scientist should do a study on that or if they have I 'd like to read it.

Some dogs do have high cholesterol, but those dogs are almost always hypothyroid, so they are overweight and not active.

[northUpland]

None of you mentioned the difference in animal fat vs. veggie fat and Omega3 vs. O6's content, and the importance of keeping them in proper ratio. Why not? Generalizing all fat sources as just a fat is not something that research has proven healthy. Checkout these pub sources for your reading pleasure on fat's. Scott, hope this helps. -Mark

Reynolds, AJ and Reinhart GA. The Role of Fat in the Formulation of Performance Rations: Focus on Fat Sources. found in [i]Recent Advances in Canine and Feline Nutrition Vol II.[/i]

Vaughn, DM and Reinhart GA. Influences of Dietary Fatty Acid Ratios on Tissue Eicosanoid Production and Blood Coagulation in Dogs. Same pub cited above

[ezzy333]

None of you mentioned the difference in animal fat vs. veggie fat and Omega3 vs. O6's content, and the importance of keeping them in proper ratio. Why not? Generalizing all fat sources as just a fat is not something that research has proven healthy. Checkout these pub sources for your reading pleasure on fat's. Scott, hope this helps. -Mark

Reynolds, AJ and Reinhart GA. The Role of Fat in the Formulation of Performance Rations: Focus on Fat Sources. found in Recent Advances in Canine and Feline Nutrition Vol II.

Vaughn, DM and Reinhart GA. Influences of Dietary Fatty Acid Ratios on Tissue Eicosanoid Production and Blood Coagulation in Dogs. Same pub cited above

I didn't mention it because I am not formulating a feed but just adding a few calories on top of the feed. It's not the same and it will do no harm no matter what you use.

Ezzy

[northUpland]

Ezzy,
If you are suggesting the need to add baseline calories to the dog's daily intake then why not just increase the daily ration of the current feed? Which is already assumed balanced, right? On this forum you have never been an advocate of food supplements. Why now? Introducting unbalance supplemental Omega 3 to 6 fat ratio to a performance dog is a concern. Maybe not for a house dog in small quantities but that's not what we are discussing here. Fat = Energy. True...but...It is the right fats in the right ratio to make that equation equal proper energy conversion. Scott's food is high in protein so whatever is not used would be stored a fat anyway and used later. Thanks! -Mark

[ezzy333]

Mark,

I think you are missing the whole point of the original question which was what do you use for additional energy. My answer was a little oil or fat of some kind will supply that additional energy. I an not suggesting you supplement your ration with oil on a continuing basis but for the short period when the dog is working harder in the cold a small amount of any oil will help. It is not something we need to figure in the formula the dog is getting since this is a temperary way of increasing calories without trying to get the dog to eat more. It works and I have seen it done for years many times over. I have done it especially when you have a dog that just won't eat any more feed.

Now we can get into a discussion on what is the best fat to put into a feed but that is whole nother topic and has nothing to do with what the OP asked. If you want to start a thread on what is the best oil or fat to use in a feed then start it. I kind of doubt there are many on here that really are concerned about it but you never know.

Ezzy

[Cajun Casey]

I'm liking a certain new dog food, 33% protein (chicken meal and fish) but only 17% fat. Way lower than my dogs are used to. If it continues to work well, I'll simply add fat when needed. One vet says olive oil. Another, butter. Gotta be simple as we'll be on the road a lot. Ideas?

Tinned sardines.

[claybuster_aa]

Pork fat

[mcbosco]

Pork fat

Pork fat is ideal but for travelling it would nice to find a dry source of pork fat. It is possible but I believe the law requires it preserved with BHA when it is in dry form.

[northUpland]

Ezzy, I did not mean to over analyze. Sorry. Sometimes I get geeked up. I understand that Scott is just looking to improve caloric denisty etc and I am sure he will see a slight daily boost in his dogs...But...adding fat on just random days doesn't amount to energy improvement very much in the big picture. As I am sure you know, it takes time & repetition, metabolically speaking, to increase and consistantly maintain the bloodstream level of free fatty acids and their movement within the muscular system. There I go again, geeking! It's getting on in the afternoon...Time to go blast some doves! See ya. -Mark

[mcbosco]

Ezzy, I did not mean to over analyze. Sorry. Sometimes I get geeked up. I understand that Scott is just looking to improve caloric denisty etc and I am sure he will see a slight daily boost in his dogs...But...adding fat on just random days doesn't amount to energy improvement very much in the big picture. As I am sure you know, it takes time & repetition, metabolically speaking, to increase and consistantly maintain the bloodstream level of free fatty acids and their movement within the muscular system. There I go again, geeking! It's getting on in the afternoon...Time to go blast some doves! See ya. -Mark

That is why Coconut OIl is the one to use.

[Chaingang]

Coconut oil...it is a solid and easy to transport. It also won't cause any digestive issues because it is digested like a carbohydrate more or less. You might also want to try Impact, that is a powdered supplement but it also has a ton of protein in it.

I would go with Coconut Oil. It is the easiest to deal with and very healthy.

33/17 sounds like a grain-free food.

I use coconut oil on my dogs food daily. If you do decide to use Coconut oil make sure you get Unrefined Organic virgin coconut oil as it is far superior to the refined stuff you buy at the grocery store. To be honest though, If your goal is to maintain or increase fat into their diet, I don't think Coconut Oil is your best option. Don't get me wrong it does wonders for the coat, but for keeping weight up I think there are better options. Impact as bosco suggested. You might try Sardines packed in water mixed in with their kibble as that has worked well for me and it makes the whole mix very attractive for the dog too (Stinkier the better). High in fat and protein, easy to transport, just open the tin, drain and mix.

[ultracarry]

In days where I work my dog a lot she gets SPAM.

[bossman]

I have also had good results with sardines. I am also going to give Impact a try this season based on previous posts by bosco... Ultra, Spam? Really? Has it worked well?

[mcbosco]

Sardines are great and easy to travel with, just use them where bears aren't a problem like they are in northern nj.

[northUpland]

Like Ezzy said(but ONLY when it comes to adding caloric density) It is VERY true that all fats are pretty much calorie wise equal. This is a great sight(below) to check out and compare. I am still(an will always be) a proponent of feeding a high fat diet consistantly year round. It is not metabolically real to assume you can add fat overnight to increase energy performance the next day. Yes, you can bump up the calories(and see a short burst) but the real long term effects of prolonged performance type energy results come only through prolonged time the dog is feed a high fat food.

http://calorielab.com/foods/animal-fats/47
http://calorielab.com/foods/vegetable-oil/53

[ezzy333]

I have never seen an energy boost from feeding fat. What you do see is the dog getting heavier or maintaining it's weight due to the increase in calories and that does start immediately. More calories has little to do with boosting energy unless the dog is actually starving to death but you will see a change in condition and possibly the dog able to perform longer between feedings becaus ethere are additional calories to be burned instead of being stored. A noticable increase in energy has a lot more to do with the conditioning of the dog through exercise than it does with diet on the short haul.

Ezzy

[shags]

I have never seen an energy boost from feeding fat. What you do see is the dog getting heavier or maintaining it's weight due to the increase in calories and that does start immediately. More calories has little to do with boosting energy unless the dog is actually starving to death but you will see a change in condition and possibly the dog able to perform longer between feedings becaus ethere are additional calories to be burned instead of being stored. A noticable increase in energy has a lot more to do with the conditioning of the dog through exercise than it does with diet on the short haul.

Ezzy

Read up on what the sled dog foks are feeding. They are the leading edge in feeding for energy and endurance.

[mcbosco]

I have never seen an energy boost from feeding fat. What you do see is the dog getting heavier or maintaining it's weight due to the increase in calories and that does start immediately. More calories has little to do with boosting energy unless the dog is actually starving to death but you will see a change in condition and possibly the dog able to perform longer between feedings becaus ethere are additional calories to be burned instead of being stored. A noticable increase in energy has a lot more to do with the conditioning of the dog through exercise than it does with diet on the short haul.

Ezzy

Read up on what the sled dog foks are feeding. They are the leading edge in feeding for energy and endurance.

That brings you to a few kibbles and supplements that are easier to buy in Alaska then in the same state they are made, ironically.

I have a good friend in Fairbanks with 4 hunting and show Spins and 4 Danes that were eating Wellness until it was discontinued at the feed store, so she met a guy in college selling Dr. Tim's to the mushers for $1lb, almost half the cost of Wellness. His name is Brent Sass and he is a local guide. Big money when you have 8 large dogs. She is also feeding half the amount. The irony is that Dr. Tim's is made in Ohio and Dr. Tim lives in Michigan, where it is not only hard to find but substantially more than $1lb.

Same story for Annamaet although that is getting easier to find.

[bossman]

So , northUpland, what do you feed on a regular basis and how often do you hunt your dog's. Thanks

[northUpland]

Bossman, I feed Dr. Tim's 35/25 Momentum(fortunately easy to find by me) I hunt 3-4 days per week during season on mostly public lands around home and normally a couple of those full day backcountry woodcock/pheasant. Travel up north for grouse. Usually a trip south to OK for quail once a year as well. My place is an old 50 acre horse farm...that has been somehow "converted" to land my friends and friends of friends are welcome to bring their dogs to train on live birds and condition year round etc. It's a nice happy place out in the boonies! -Mark

[bossman]

Hey, sounds perfect to me!..Enjoy

[shags]

Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete is 32/25. TSC carries it here.

[brad27]

Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete is 32/25. TSC carries it here.

I use this because it's the cheapest good feed available to me where I live.

[edb]

For a dry food I have had great results on Nutrisource. It puts the weight on and also seeing great coats and energy

[JKP]

My sled dog competitor friends use peanut butter...natural peanut butter without the chemicals. They claim studies have shown that it activtes in 20 minutes and because of the formulation doesn't cause 'spiking" but a gradual energy surge.

Easy to carry...

[Scott Linden]

My sled dog competitor friends use peanut butter...natural peanut butter without the chemicals. They claim studies have shown that it activtes in 20 minutes and because of the formulation doesn't cause 'spiking" but a gradual energy surge.

Easy to carry...

And hilarious to watch them eat, I'll bet.

[Onk]

Twinkies.....I mean hey it works for our youth right?!

[Ruffshooter]

Fat = Energy. Why don't I have energy? I am, well, pleasingly plump.