Why Corn is So Dangerous

MonsterDad · Post by **MonsterDad** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:01 am

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/ ... 6B20130225

Read this article and you will understand why corn is so dangerous. You are basically in a binary situation of being safe or exposing your dog to a deadly poison.

To me, relying on the inspection process at the dog food plant is too risky. The risk/reward is very poor. To save a few dollars each month and risk a dead dog or thousand's in vet bills is fool hardy.

So Ezzy, most of this is coming from someone at a plant. Do you still feel the risk is worth it?

Aflatoxin getting into the pet food supply has happened before and will again.

It is your decision.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:49 am

One of the theories for the decline in quail in TX is the Aflatoxin the birds are getting from deer feeder corn.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:06 am

"No pets have been reported to have suffered illness from the recalled products, Comer said."
70-80 million dogs in the US, and how many deaths a year do to pet food? I think I will take my chances.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:24 am

ACooper wrote:One of the theories for the decline in quail in TX is the Aflatoxin the birds are getting from deer feeder corn.

hmm. haven't heard that.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:28 am

mountaindogs wrote:
ACooper wrote:One of the theories for the decline in quail in TX is the Aflatoxin the birds are getting from deer feeder corn.
hmm. haven't heard that.

Yep, it's in the mix....deer feeding is a very bad thing.
Mostly for the increase in nest predators it delivers in certain areas of the country.
Deer feeding of corn and the like and the feeders themselves should be eliminated....but, they won't be as too much money is made off the deer hunting industry....and deer hunters like ease of shooting and success,
Too bad that.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:41 am

MonsterDad wrote:http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/ ... 6B20130225

Read this article and you will understand why corn is so dangerous. You are basically in a binary situation of being safe or exposing your dog to a deadly poison.

To me, relying on the inspection process at the dog food plant is too risky. The risk/reward is very poor. To save a few dollars each month and risk a dead dog or thousand's in vet bills is fool hardy.

So Ezzy, most of this is coming from someone at a plant. Do you still feel the risk is worth it?

Aflatoxin getting into the pet food supply has happened before and will again.

It is your decision.

Another article that is a year late and is meant to scare people rather than to inform.

Aflatoxin is not new, we were dealing with it years ago, and will continue I am sure. It was more prevalent last year because of the extent of the drought. I sure wish it wasn't but it is just the way nature works. When the stalk of the plant dies before the kernels are dry then the additional moisture is trapped and leads to the possibility of mold. Aflatoxin can appear in many places but in the feed industry corn is the main place to look.

It is a mold that is readily detected under a black light but for prove positive we do a lab test if it shows up under the light. The hardest part is to insure you are getting a good sample. Occasionally you will miss it but if the concentration is real low there is less likelihood it will harm the dog.

So, it comes down to the similar problem we have with salmonella in the meat products. Both can be dangerous but luckily aflatoxin is not as common. If you want to stop using any ingredient because of a possibility something might cause problems then we need to start with animal proteins. It would be my suggestion that you become aware of the many problems we deal with on a continuing basis and have some faith that our quality and safety procedures continue to work as they have for the past 50 years and protect our animals as well as us. There have been very few dogs or people who have experienced a serious problem with the food they eat. But do stay vigilant as I don't see any of these problems just suddenly disappearing. They have been here for way too many years.

Ezzy

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:49 am

ACooper wrote:One of the theories for the decline in quail in TX is the Aflatoxin the birds are getting from deer feeder corn.

It is not a theory. They have supporting pathology. It's not cleaning the feeders that's the problem, not the corn itself. Grain dust build up leads to fungus growth. The fungus may be from the feed or the environment. Bottom line = clean your feeders. We have the same issue with backyard songbirs feeders.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:53 am

Cajun Casey wrote:
ACooper wrote:One of the theories for the decline in quail in TX is the Aflatoxin the birds are getting from deer feeder corn.
It is not a theory. They have supporting pathology. It's not cleaning the feeders that's the problem, not the corn itself. Grain dust build up leads to fungus growth. The fungus may be from the feed or the environment. Bottom line = clean your feeders. We have the same issue with backyard songbirs feeders.

But what you are talking about is not aflatoxin

Ezzy

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:20 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:
ACooper wrote:One of the theories for the decline in quail in TX is the Aflatoxin the birds are getting from deer feeder corn.
It is not a theory. They have supporting pathology. It's not cleaning the feeders that's the problem, not the corn itself. Grain dust build up leads to fungus growth. The fungus may be from the feed or the environment. Bottom line = clean your feeders. We have the same issue with backyard songbirs feeders.
But what you are talking about is not aflatoxin

Ezzy

Yes, it is. I believe RPQRR published on it.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:25 pm

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/more-s ... r-7979.ece

That is a link to an article addressing what Coop's talking about. It was investigated over three years ago.

hi-tailyn · Post by **hi-tailyn** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:40 pm

Sorry we got off topic.

ACooper wrote:One of the theories for the decline in quail in TX is the Aflatoxin the birds are getting from deer feeder corn.

From the RPQRR news letters; The Larger picture of the problem is parasites such as eyeworm. This is showing to be one of the biggest problem with late fall bird populations. What we are seeing here in TX the bird population is ok during summer and Sept. then when quail season rolls around, poof, They are mostly gone.
You can't find the numbers you did 2 months ago. Even with good habitat and good weather conditions.
That is what happened 3-5 yrs ago. During dove season we were seeing many coveys (7-12) out when we were driving around the lease, then mid Nov. we were lucky to find 2-3 coveys. Still had plenty of cover, but no birds.

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:09 pm

ACooper wrote:One of the theories for the decline in quail in TX is the Aflatoxin the birds are getting from deer feeder corn.

Pesticides(neonocotinoid) in the seed has destroyed the bee population in ON

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/huge-hone ... -1.1699198

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener ... -1.1312508

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:59 pm

nikegundog wrote:"No pets have been reported to have suffered illness from the recalled products, Comer said."
70-80 million dogs in the US, and how many deaths a year do to pet food? I think I will take my chances.

Corn is not a natural food for dogs, though if you feed them nothing else they will eat it, just as people who have nothing to eat but grasshoppers, will eat them, does not make it healthy or right.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:33 pm

People can we agree to let the dog food thing go..... Please

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:55 pm

ACooper wrote:People can we agree to let the dog food thing go..... Please

Obviously, for a couple of members, the answer is "no".

Charlie

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:15 pm

birddogger wrote:
ACooper wrote:People can we agree to let the dog food thing go..... Please
Obviously, for a couple of members, the answer is "no".

Charlie

The couple of members here are not the problem. The problem is that there are far too many people that trust dog food companies to produce something good for their dogs, when all they are really doing is lining their pockets with dollars for pennies of corn. People used to trust cigarette companies as well, and bought low tar cigarettes, that only had the effect of making them smoke more to get the same nicotine blood plasma level. Corn fed hogs are Virginia ham dandy, corn fed dogs are sad, very sad.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:21 pm

The only way to end it is just not respond to it anymore let the few that it is so important to pat each other on the back & the rest of us ignore them. :roll:

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:22 pm

ACooper wrote:People can we agree to let the dog food thing go..... Please

For healthy dogs sake, no.

The glycemic index is a way of measuring the tendency of a specific food to raise the blood sugar level of an animal. The higher the index, the greater the risk of an unhealthy rise in blood sugar.

Here are the actual glycemic index figures1 for a few common dog food ingredients…2

Corn meal (69)

Brown rice (55)

Corn (53)

Oatmeal (49)

Wheat (41)

Barley (25)

Chicken (0)

Beef (0)

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:28 pm

pointstar wrote:
ACooper wrote:People can we agree to let the dog food thing go..... Please
For healthy dogs sake, no.

The glycemic index is a way of measuring the tendency of a specific food to raise the blood sugar level of an animal. The higher the index, the greater the risk of an unhealthy rise in blood sugar.

Here are the actual glycemic index figures1 for a few common dog food ingredients…2
Corn meal (69)
Brown rice (55)
Corn (53)
Oatmeal (49)
Wheat (41)
Barley (25)
Chicken (0)
Beef (0)

When most of them get run over, shot by deer poachers, eviscerated on barbed wire or chewed by coyotes, does dog food really matter? Go back to Facebook.

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:31 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:The only way to end it is just not respond to it anymore let the few that it is so important to pat each other on the back & the rest of us ignore them. :roll:

The Truth About Corn

So, why is corn used so abundantly in the manufacture of today’s commercial dog foods?

Well, as you’ve just seen, surely not because it could be considered more nutritious.

Then, could corn be “more natural”?

When you study a dog’s natural ancestral history, you won’t find any mention of corn. That is, until the year 1956. For that was the year indelibly marked by the invention of kibble.

So, why did the introduction of kibble bring with it such a dramatic rise in the use of corn in making dog food? What suddenly made carbohydrates (like corn, grains and potatoes) so popular with the pet food industry?

The truth is…

Carbohydrates are cheap

Carbohydrates are vital to the kibbling process

You won’t find corn in commercial dog food because it contributes some unique nutritional property. No, it’s there simply because it supplies cheap calories to the product.

And starchy carbohydrates play a critical role in a process known as gelatinization — a process which is absolutely crucial to the workings of kibble machinery.

As proof, how often do you find corn in a raw or canned dog food?

The Bottom Line

In a nutshell, corn makes any pet food you find it in less expensive to produce. And it does this by diluting a recipe’s more costly meat ingredients.

Kibble is simply inexpensive fast food for dogs. And that’s OK. Because corn doesn’t just save money for manufacturers. It also makes dog food more affordable for pet owners, too.

However, to advertise that corn is included in commercial dog food primarily for its nutritional benefits is misleading — and a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

It may be OK for a dog food to contain corn. However, it’s not OK for a manufacturer to make such outrageous claims about this rather ordinary cereal grain in a deceptive attempt to mislead consumers and to exaggerate its true nutritional value.

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... food-corn/

PS. Has your dog ever attacked and eaten a cornstalk with the same vigor as it would chase an animal.....! And why?

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:44 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:The only way to end it is just not respond to it anymore let the few that it is so important to pat each other on the back & the rest of us ignore them. :roll:

I agree, I am finished.

Charlie

walkos5 · Post by **walkos5** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:26 pm

All good information here but I think I'll stick to the natural feed my dog has been doing so well on since he was a pup. The truth is, I have too much time invested in him to throw him cheap kibble and take chances. Actually I don't much like eating processed foods either and stay away as much as possible. Too bad about those poor bees. Kind of makes one wonder how long humans can withstand all that's being unleashed upon our environment and food sources. Bees here, bats there, diseased deer, radioactive fish, ect.. Perhaps its time to start from scratch and do the opposite of whatever we have been doing up to now.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:48 pm

pointstar wrote:...Has your dog ever attacked and eaten a cornstalk with the same vigor as it would chase an animal.....! And why?

No.
Why?....great genetics, super training and more than a bit of setter commonsense.
Can't speak for other pups...may be some challenges there.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:53 pm

pointstar wrote: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... food-corn/

By citing dogfoodadvisor you have from here on out made any any of your points regarding food a joke.

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:12 pm

ACooper wrote:
pointstar wrote: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... food-corn/
By citing dogfoodadvisor you have from here on out made any any of your points regarding food a joke.

The important thing about your post, is that it contains no information, that challenges nor disproves what I posted, as nothing that I posted is wrong. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... food-corn/ Dogs that have a choice, do not choose to eat corn...!

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:26 pm

pointstar wrote:
ACooper wrote:
pointstar wrote: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... food-corn/
By citing dogfoodadvisor you have from here on out made any any of your points regarding food a joke.
The important thing about your post, is that it contains no information, that challenges nor disproves what I posted, as nothing that I posted is wrong. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... food-corn/ Dogs that have a choice, do not choose to eat corn...!

I do not need to challenge or disprove, I do not have a problem with what you feed, I am not sure why you care what anyone else feeds? Let it go man let it go.

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:10 pm

The important thing about your post, is that it contains no information, that challenges nor disproves what I posted, as nothing that I posted is wrong. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... food-corn/ Dogs that have a choice, do not choose to eat corn...![/quote]

I do not need to challenge or disprove, I do not have a problem with what you feed, I am not sure why you care what anyone else feeds? Let it go man let it go.[/quote]

People who care are the only people who matter..........Why do I care? because I just threw out some chew sticks that were made in China, after I fed some to my girl, I could have given her the rest because she loved them. I threw them away, because I cared, and I also care that not all people are bright enough to read the ingredients list of something, or understand that those ingredients are not suitable for a 100% carnivorous animal. The fact will always be true, that for 99.999999% of the time that canines have lived on the Earth, that they have not eaten corn based packaged food, thus the millions of years that some ignore, are still important, if you care.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:57 pm

I find it funny all these google guru's have dogs (or invisible dogs) that couldn't hold a candle in the dark for thousands and thousands of kibble fed dogs. Guaranteed !

Here's some googlry for you

http://avetsguidetolife.blogspot.com/20 ... t-bad.html

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:03 pm

pointstar why do you keep asking for names when you have given up nothing about who you are,where you live,your dogs breeder,or ped.You acuused me of hiding but seems as though your the one HIDING SOMETHING.
I've been here a few yrs almost aslong as the site itself & members here all pretty much know me & I've met a few,sold a few a dog or pup, bought dog related items from a few.

Come out who ever you are.
Walkos show us your 50 lb muscle bound BrItt,ped,& your info.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:28 pm

pointstar wrote:
ACooper wrote:
pointstar wrote: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... food-corn/
By citing dogfoodadvisor you have from here on out made any any of your points regarding food a joke.
The important thing about your post, is that it contains no information, that challenges nor disproves what I posted, as nothing that I posted is wrong. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... food-corn/ Dogs that have a choice, do not choose to eat corn...!

And tell me what information any of your posts have contained.

YOUR DISCUSSION ON THIS BOARD IS EXACTLY WHAT I SEE COMING FROM WASHINGTON. Either we all agree with your opinions or we aren't willing to learn. BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO FEED RAW IT IS A SIGN I DON'T CARE ABOUT MY DOG. Kind of like if I think we need to build a pipeline I am against clean water.

There isn't a lot that I know much about but I do know about dog food from purchasing the ingredients, manufacturing, quality control, marketing, and logistics. But I find no place to even begin to have a discussion as you have clearly shown you have no knowledge or understanding of any area in the field. And I sure do not see any desire to learn.

Ezzy

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:31 pm

BTW dogs are not and wolves are not 100% carnivorous animals...

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:38 pm

pointstar wrote:The important thing about your post, is that it contains no information, that challenges nor disproves what I posted, as nothing that I posted is wrong. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... food-corn/ Dogs that have a choice, do not choose to eat corn...!

I do not need to challenge or disprove, I do not have a problem with what you feed, I am not sure why you care what anyone else feeds? Let it go man let it go.[/quote]

People who care are the only people who matter..........Why do I care? because I just threw out some chew sticks that were made in China, after I fed some to my girl, I could have given her the rest because she loved them. I threw them away, because I cared, and I also care that not all people are bright enough to read the ingredients list of something, or understand that those ingredients are not suitable for a 100% carnivorous animal. The fact will always be true, that for 99.999999% of the time that canines have lived on the Earth, that they have not eaten corn based packaged food, thus the millions of years that some ignore, are still important, if you care.[/quote]

You have certainly proven this to all of us.

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:27 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:pointstar why do you keep asking for names when you have given up nothing about who you are,where you live,your dogs breeder,or ped.You acuused me of hiding but seems as though your the one HIDING SOMETHING.
I've been here a few yrs almost aslong as the site itself & members here all pretty much know me & I've met a few,sold a few a dog or pup, bought dog related items from a few.

Come out who ever you are.
Walkos show us your 50 lb muscle bound BrItt,ped,& your info.

I have only ask for one name, and that is the name of the breeder, who feeds their puppies Purina Pro Plan. If you did the math, and measured out what a litter of puppies would actually eat, it might cost between 50 and 100 dollars more to feed a top quality food, as the cheap Purina Pro Plan is not free itself. So for people who like all puppy mill owners care more about that 50 or 100 dollars, I have no respect, and to them I will never bow. Only an ignorant person would brag that they are feeding an inferior food to tiny helpless puppies, it's sad. One other thing that is missing in this equation, is you telling us why your dog food is better than mine, which is Blue Buffalo puppy chicken, mixed with 50 percent real cooked meat, with associated broth.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:42 pm

pointstar wrote:
Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:pointstar why do you keep asking for names when you have given up nothing about who you are,where you live,your dogs breeder,or ped.You acuused me of hiding but seems as though your the one HIDING SOMETHING.
I've been here a few yrs almost aslong as the site itself & members here all pretty much know me & I've met a few,sold a few a dog or pup, bought dog related items from a few.

Come out who ever you are.
Walkos show us your 50 lb muscle bound BrItt,ped,& your info.
I have only ask for one name, and that is the name of the breeder, who feeds their puppies Purina Pro Plan. If you did the math, and measured out what a litter of puppies would actually eat, it might cost between 50 and 100 dollars more to feed a top quality food, as the cheap Purina Pro Plan is not free itself. So for people who like all puppy mill owners care more about that 50 or 100 dollars, I have no respect, and to them I will never bow. Only an ignorant person would brag that they are feeding an inferior food to tiny helpless puppies, it's sad. One other thing that is missing in this equation, is you telling us why your dog food is better than mine, which is Blue Buffalo puppy chicken, mixed with 50 percent real cooked meat, with associated broth.

You're the only one talking about anything being "better".

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:43 pm

ACooper wrote:BTW dogs are not and wolves are not 100% carnivorous animals...

And neither makes raids on farmers cornfields for the corn............................ Show me a wild wolf, coyote, jackal, or dingo that eats the percentage of grains in purina dog chow, and you win this argument.

Questions that a lawyer would ask at this point.

1. Has this forum ever accepted any monetary gifts, grants or donations from Purina, Nestle or any of it's affiliates?

2. Are there any employees or representatives associated with either Purina or Nestle participating here?

3. Why is this argument so important to some, as I do not believe the importance that some are giving it.

4. Would a Porterhouse steak for Christmas breakfast be a nice gift for a pooch? and has your champion ever had this?

5. While you may not have fed your dog any meat today, why does it bother you that other dogs are eating such?

Labs4Me · Post by **Labs4Me** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:43 pm

pointstar wrote:
I have only ask for one name, and that is the name of the breeder, who feeds their puppies Purina Pro Plan. If you did the math, and measured out what a litter of puppies would actually eat, it might cost between 50 and 100 dollars more to feed a top quality food, as the cheap Purina Pro Plan is not free itself. So for people who like all puppy mill owners care more about that 50 or 100 dollars, I have no respect, and to them I will never bow. Only an ignorant person would brag that they are feeding an inferior food to tiny helpless puppies, it's sad. One other thing that is missing in this equation, is you telling us why your dog food is better than mine, which is Blue Buffalo puppy chicken, mixed with 50 percent real cooked meat, with associated broth.

Puppy mill? Ignorant? Oh no you didn't

You have no idea who or what you are talking about. You're really not worth the effort to even correct.

But I will say this, I would highly recommend you stop saying crap like this on the internet because libel is not something to trifle with.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:49 pm

pointstar wrote:
ACooper wrote:BTW dogs are not and wolves are not 100% carnivorous animals...
And neither makes raids on farmers cornfields for the corn............................ Show me a wild wolf, coyote, jackal, or dingo that eats the percentage of grains in purina dog chow, and you win this argument.

Questions that a lawyer would ask at this point.

1. Has this forum ever accepted any monetary gifts, grants or donations from Purina, Nestle or any of it's affiliates?

2. Are there any employees or representatives associated with either Purina or Nestle participating here?

3. Why is this argument so important to some, as I do not believe the importance that some are giving it.

4. Would a Porterhouse steak for Christmas breakfast be a nice gift for a pooch? and has your champion ever had this?

5. While you may not have fed your dog any meat today, why does it bother you that other dogs are eating such?

Again and again and again, no one cares what you feed.....

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:14 pm

Labs4Me wrote:
pointstar wrote:
I have only ask for one name, and that is the name of the breeder, who feeds their puppies Purina Pro Plan. If you did the math, and measured out what a litter of puppies would actually eat, it might cost between 50 and 100 dollars more to feed a top quality food, as the cheap Purina Pro Plan is not free itself. So for people who like all puppy mill owners care more about that 50 or 100 dollars, I have no respect, and to them I will never bow. Only an ignorant person would brag that they are feeding an inferior food to tiny helpless puppies, it's sad. One other thing that is missing in this equation, is you telling us why your dog food is better than mine, which is Blue Buffalo puppy chicken, mixed with 50 percent real cooked meat, with associated broth.
Puppy mill? Ignorant? Oh no you didn't You have no idea who or what you are talking about. You're really not worth the effort to even correct.

But I will say this, I would highly recommend you stop saying crap like this on the internet because libel is not something to trifle with.

The problem with turning something into a math equation, is that math is a perfect science. Again this is not my review, http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... lects-dry/

pointstar · Post by **pointstar** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:22 pm

ACooper wrote:
pointstar wrote:
ACooper wrote:BTW dogs are not and wolves are not 100% carnivorous animals...
And neither makes raids on farmers cornfields for the corn............................ Show me a wild wolf, coyote, jackal, or dingo that eats the percentage of grains in purina dog chow, and you win this argument.

Questions that a lawyer would ask at this point.

1. Has this forum ever accepted any monetary gifts, grants or donations from Purina, Nestle or any of it's affiliates?

2. Are there any employees or representatives associated with either Purina or Nestle participating here?

3. Why is this argument so important to some, as I do not believe the importance that some are giving it.

4. Would a Porterhouse steak for Christmas breakfast be a nice gift for a pooch? and has your champion ever had this?

5. While you may not have fed your dog any meat today, why does it bother you that other dogs are eating such?

Again and again and again, no one cares what you feed.....

I never said that anyone should, that does not mean that corn gluten is not used as a herbicide as well as a filler in certain dog foods.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:32 pm

Labs4Me wrote:
pointstar wrote:
I have only ask for one name, and that is the name of the breeder, who feeds their puppies Purina Pro Plan. If you did the math, and measured out what a litter of puppies would actually eat, it might cost between 50 and 100 dollars more to feed a top quality food, as the cheap Purina Pro Plan is not free itself. So for people who like all puppy mill owners care more about that 50 or 100 dollars, I have no respect, and to them I will never bow. Only an ignorant person would brag that they are feeding an inferior food to tiny helpless puppies, it's sad. One other thing that is missing in this equation, is you telling us why your dog food is better than mine, which is Blue Buffalo puppy chicken, mixed with 50 percent real cooked meat, with associated broth.
Puppy mill? Ignorant? Oh no you didn't You have no idea who or what you are talking about. You're really not worth the effort to even correct.

But I will say this, I would highly recommend you stop saying crap like this on the internet because libel is not something to trifle with.

Typical anti-breeder troll tactic, to engage people in redundant arguments until they disclose enough personal information to get themselves a visit from the local ACO, backed by the H$U$ minions.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:40 pm

Cajun Casey wrote: Typical anti-breeder troll tactic, to engage people in redundant arguments until they disclose enough personal information to get themselves a visit from the local ACO, backed by the H$U$ minions.

I'd say that is a very astute observation.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:49 pm

ACooper wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote: Typical anti-breeder troll tactic, to engage people in redundant arguments until they disclose enough personal information to get themselves a visit from the local ACO, backed by the H$U$ minions.
I'd say that is a very astute observation.

It's what my people fight against.

Labs4Me · Post by **Labs4Me** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:54 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
Labs4Me wrote:
pointstar wrote:
I have only ask for one name, and that is the name of the breeder, who feeds their puppies Purina Pro Plan. If you did the math, and measured out what a litter of puppies would actually eat, it might cost between 50 and 100 dollars more to feed a top quality food, as the cheap Purina Pro Plan is not free itself. So for people who like all puppy mill owners care more about that 50 or 100 dollars, I have no respect, and to them I will never bow. Only an ignorant person would brag that they are feeding an inferior food to tiny helpless puppies, it's sad. One other thing that is missing in this equation, is you telling us why your dog food is better than mine, which is Blue Buffalo puppy chicken, mixed with 50 percent real cooked meat, with associated broth.
Puppy mill? Ignorant? Oh no you didn't You have no idea who or what you are talking about. You're really not worth the effort to even correct.

But I will say this, I would highly recommend you stop saying crap like this on the internet because libel is not something to trifle with.
Typical anti-breeder troll tactic, to engage people in redundant arguments until they disclose enough personal information to get themselves a visit from the local ACO, backed by the H$U$ minions.

Meh. I doubt that. And even if this addlepated twit does have connections to AC - I really doubt my breeder has anything to worry about - she's pretty well known and respected

As for me, since I am active in breed rescue I'm not exactly quaking in my boots

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:55 am

pointstar wrote:
I have only ask for one name, and that is the name of the breeder, who feeds their puppies Purina Pro Plan. If you did the math, and measured out what a litter of puppies would actually eat, it might cost between 50 and 100 dollars more to feed a top quality food, as the cheap Purina Pro Plan is not free itself. So for people who like all puppy mill owners care more about that 50 or 100 dollars, I have no respect, and to them I will never bow. Only an ignorant person would brag that they are feeding an inferior food to tiny helpless puppies, it's sad. One other thing that is missing in this equation, is you telling us why your dog food is better than mine, which is Blue Buffalo puppy chicken, mixed with 50 percent real cooked meat, with associated broth.

I'll bite...

Blue Buffalo had a recall not long ago huh? Also, all of that rice, oatmeal, barley, potato, Berries, peas, pumpkin, etc is just awesome for a (in your words) 100% carnivore.

I do not feed purina products because I do not want to. I am certainly not going to bash anyone else for doing so. I also would not feed Blue food. Over priced basic food that imo is no better than any of the many average kibbles out there. Adding more meat, plant, and water to the food is better in what way? The dog doesn't care what food makes YOU feel better.

Instead of parroting someone else work, try to use your own head without the "Feelings" attached. Find some data to back your food "Mixture", and make an argument in your own words as to why it's good for your pup and our dogs, and maybe I, and others will start to take you seriously. Until then...

My Kibble works for my dogs, cheaper than yours, less ingredients, and no recalls. Your "Mixture" seems to work for your pup, but I "FEEL" you are doing your dog a disservice. Pro Plan works for millions of hard working dogs. The only issue I can see is your "FEEEEEEEELLLLINGGGGGGGGSSSSSS"

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:43 pm

I think a couple of weeks should be enough time for us all to learn about how dangerous corn and how useless any vegetable ingredient is for our dogs. It is wonderful that three or four world famous published animal nutritionist have taken time out of their busy schedule to come into our forum and repeat over and over their most treasured thoughts with us. But at the same time we are all continuing to survived along with our dogs eating all of the crap that feed and food manufacturers have made that has aided our health in so many ways while at the same time reduced the time we spend providing for our dogs that we actually have time to spend learning how we have been mislead down the path to total destruction by the very plants we have cultivated that have fed the world for decades.

It appears to be time to end this whole thing as nothing new and little of anything helpful to any of us. I know it has been entertaining to some but aggravating to others and worthless to all since not one of those learned profs seem to be able to listen or learn.

Ezzy