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Why Purina Pro Plan?

Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby gunguy » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:46 pm

I hear a lot about how Purina Pro Plan is the "the best food for sporting dogs" and its "the food that 8 out of 10 champions eat" and so fourth. This is also the food that the breeder who I got my Lab from recommended, but why? After looking into it and its ingredients it doesn't look that good. What's all the hype about? Dog food adviser only rates it a 2.5 out 5. I am not trying to talk smack or start a fight, I am genuinely curious why this food is so popular.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby MSU Aggie » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:01 pm

Pro Plan is a good food but definitely not the best, which brand is always up for debate. It is a good balance between cost and quality, not to mention consistency. Very few recalls .Purina has also spent a lot of money on marketing and sponsorship deals which is why so many breeders and competitors use it. I feed it and have good luck with it, so just my 2 cents.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby slistoe » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:52 pm

gunguy wrote:I am genuinely curious why this food is so popular.

Because it gets reszults in the dogs it is fed too. Feeding dogs is not a label reading thought exercise.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby Carolina Gundogs » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:27 pm

I wouldn’t put too much faith in the dog food advisor’s rating. It’s fairly easy to put up a website and give yourself a title for a name. Amen

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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby bustingcover » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:58 pm

It’s consistent and they support sporting dogs
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby dog dr » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:21 pm

we just started feeding it bout a year ago. Adult dogs are doing well, but the best thing is our puppies have much firmer stool and much LESS of it!
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby Robbw » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:15 pm

Because they have all the big corporate dollars to advertise and sponsor.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby shags » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:07 pm

If the owners, trainers, handlers of all these top-winning or prospectively winning dogs thought there was anything better, then they'd be feeding that stuff instead. They go for what works and produces results.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby ezzy333 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:14 pm

Robbw wrote:Because they have all the big corporate dollars to advertise and sponsor.


I would like to think most of us are smart enough to judge the quality by the results on our dogs and not just because of and ad that by the way all companies do.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby Robbw » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:27 am

I'm not sure if Purina Pro Plan is the best food on the market for sport dogs or any other dogs. Maybe a few of you do believe that. I understand that Ezzy had a long career in the dog food industry so he is well placed to give a learned opinion. And there is no doubt that numerous top dogs are being fed that food. But to deny that the big marketing and big money campaign goes a long way to get them the name and popularity is naive at best.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby ezzy333 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:56 am

Robbw wrote:I'm not sure if Purina Pro Plan is the best food on the market for sport dogs or any other dogs. Maybe a few of you do believe that. I understand that Ezzy had a long career in the dog food industry so he is well placed to give a learned opinion. And there is no doubt that numerous top dogs are being fed that food. But to deny that the big marketing and big money campaign goes a long way to get them the name and popularity is naive at best.


Don't take wrong, I understand the importance of marketing that produces name recognition. I am saying that hopefully that is not the only reason we try a feed and keep using it when other feeds may be doing a better job.

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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby slistoe » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:58 pm

Robbw wrote:I'm not sure if Purina Pro Plan is the best food on the market for sport dogs or any other dogs. Maybe a few of you do believe that. I understand that Ezzy had a long career in the dog food industry so he is well placed to give a learned opinion. And there is no doubt that numerous top dogs are being fed that food. But to deny that the big marketing and big money campaign goes a long way to get them the name and popularity is naive at best.

Most certainly folks will tend to buy from a name that is recognizeable and supports the events in which they participate - that is why all companies do sponsorships and advertising. But when you are vested in winning, you will not feed a food that does not give the results you need, regardless of what kind of advertising they do. Without results, the intro into the market is rather meaningless.

That is not to say that there aren't a bunch of foods that can give the same performance as pro-plan. But you will never find that out reading dogfoodadvisor or the such.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby Pedro » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:26 pm

There is no one food "Best for Sporting Dogs". Gross generalization.
I feed pro plan because my dogs do well on it
I like collecting the cute weight circles and getting checks
A lot of pro's horse trailers are stacked to the roof with it, so it's gotta be good
Sometimes when you win a Championship you get a bunch of purple bags
Generally, on the chain gang, my dogs poops are prettier than my buddies dogs poops

I've fed many different feeds over the years. Your dog is your best "Dog Food Adviser"
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby gunguy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:35 pm

Carolina Gundogs wrote:I wouldn’t put too much faith in the dog food advisor’s rating. It’s fairly easy to put up a website and give yourself a title for a name. Amen
Ezzy

I don't discount that one bit. That is the reason I am posing the question in the first place. You can't trust everything you read on the internet!
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby gunguy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:37 pm

dog dr wrote:we just started feeding it bout a year ago. Adult dogs are doing well, but the best thing is our puppies have much firmer stool and much LESS of it!

I could use less stool in my yard. It only takes a day to become a mine field.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby art hubbard » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:05 pm

I feed pro plan "Salmon and Rice" could not be more pleased with the results, dogs condition, small firm stools and feed less than other brands I have fed over many years of caring for many dogs.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby EAM » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:38 am

The kennel I got my pup from fed proplan sport salmon and rice, the breeder was a vet, ran competition dogs, said he had studied dog food extensivly, and used it on dogs in his kennel as well as at the vet.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby BuckeyeSteve » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:37 pm

Carolina Gundogs wrote:I wouldn’t put too much faith in the dog food advisor’s rating. It’s fairly easy to put up a website and give yourself a title for a name.


Amen

Ezzy


I agree.... hence the existence of "citizen's united".... but concerning dog food, dogfoodadvisor is amazing. If you take the time to read their reviews and descriptions of ingredients, it's astounding the amount of info they give. The website may not support what anyone wants to hear, but the info is top notch. Unfortunately, the "you get what you pay for" rule is generally in affect. The best reviewed dog foods are generally expensive ones. Some expensive foods don't review well, though. The site doesn't take any money from dog food companies for their reviews. I think it's a great site, IMHO.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby ezzy333 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:47 pm

BuckeyeSteve wrote:
Carolina Gundogs wrote:I wouldn’t put too much faith in the dog food advisor’s rating. It’s fairly easy to put up a website and give yourself a title for a name.


Amen

Ezzy


I agree.... hence the existence of "citizen's united".... but concerning dog food, dogfoodadvisor is amazing. If you take the time to read their reviews and descriptions of ingredients, it's astounding the amount of info they give. The website may not support what anyone wants to hear, but the info is top notch. Unfortunately, the "you get what you pay for" rule is generally in affect. The best reviewed dog foods are generally expensive ones. Some expensive foods don't review well, though. The site doesn't take any money from dog food companies for their reviews. I think it's a great site, IMHO.


There is little accurate info about the feeds on his site. He just publishes his opinions and he know little about nutrition.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby shags » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:32 am

The guy is a dentist, not a canine nutritionist.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby cjhills » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:51 am

Why do you think Purina puts the pull tape to open the bag on the bottom of the bag...…………….Cj
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby nanney1 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:48 am

There was a trend a few years ago among show people with coated breeds to feed a combination of Pro Plan Performance mixed half and half with Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach Salmon and Rice. The Labrador show crowd seemed to prefer the Pro Plan original Chicken and Rice formula. It was discontinued for a short time and apparently due to the efforts of the Lab breeders, it was brought back as All Life Stages 26/16 Chicken formula. However, most top show folks seem to feed PP Performance. But not everyone. some feed Eukanuba/Iams or some other brand. Some Lab and English Bulldog show people feed regular Purina Dog Chow. Some friends of mine that still show feed Nutro.

The regular show folks are on the road every weekend and there is always a Pro Plan vendor at every show. You can always get the food you want without having to drive somewhere and hope they have the formula you like in stock. Pro Plan seems to digest well and and dogs have regular formed stools. When you are on the road with several dogs of different breeds, body types and coats, having one food that works well is a must. Especially, when you've got to take out all these dogs for walks and potty on leash.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby BuckeyeSteve » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:49 am

ezzy333 wrote:
BuckeyeSteve wrote:
Carolina Gundogs wrote:I wouldn’t put too much faith in the dog food advisor’s rating. It’s fairly easy to put up a website and give yourself a title for a name.


Amen

Ezzy


I agree.... hence the existence of "citizen's united".... but concerning dog food, dogfoodadvisor is amazing. If you take the time to read their reviews and descriptions of ingredients, it's astounding the amount of info they give. The website may not support what anyone wants to hear, but the info is top notch. Unfortunately, the "you get what you pay for" rule is generally in affect. The best reviewed dog foods are generally expensive ones. Some expensive foods don't review well, though. The site doesn't take any money from dog food companies for their reviews. I think it's a great site, IMHO.


There is little accurate info about the feeds on his site. He just publishes his opinions and he know little about nutrition.



Ezzy...from following a ton of your posts on here, I think you are a dog-brilliant guy -- but I think you're wrong on this one. I'll attach a random link to a food I just pulled up. I challenge you to find any place that gives more factual nutritional info on dog foods, without brand loyalty or opinion. Not only does he break down in detail exactly what's in each food, but he discusses the sourcing of the ingredients and explains the specific purpose/value of each ingredient. I love this site because of the massive amount of unbiased detailed info on nearly every food you can think of, and hundreds you could never think of. There is no opinion on the free site...just nutritional breakdowns. If you pay fifteen dollars a year you can get his opinions and save a couple hours of reading about dogfood. I went the free route and read an ungodly amount of information on a ton of foods until I found the best deal on the best rated food (in my opinion).
https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food ... -dog-food/
(that link is not the one i bought....just a random link as an example)
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby slistoe » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:27 am

The problem with that website is foods I know work very well for feeding working dogs at the highest level of performance have a 1 to 3 star rating and foods that I know do not work at all for working dogs at the highest level of performance have 4.5 to 5 star ratings ..... so the basis for the rating system is pure bunk. The person running the site knows little to nothing of the nutritional requirements of dogs, nor do the people reading the site. The whole thing is based on some level of inadequate thought exercise on what "feels good" to feed a dog and has nothing to do with what works for the dog.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby ezzy333 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:44 am

slistoe wrote:The problem with that website is foods I know work very well for feeding working dogs at the highest level of performance have a 1 to 3 star rating and foods that I know do not work at all for working dogs at the highest level of performance have 4.5 to 5 star ratings ..... so the basis for the rating system is pure bunk. The person running the site knows little to nothing of the nutritional requirements of dogs, nor do the people reading the site. The whole thing is based on some level of inadequate thought exercise on what "feels good" to feed a dog and has nothing to do with what works for the dog.

Exactly my thoughts and my prove is the same experience that is stated. There is no way he even knows where the ingredients come from as every company with any volume is buying their ingredients on the open market. We spent a lot of money hiring nutritionists that did all of our formulations as well as research on other feeds and I will guarantee that he doesn't have the ability to know what any of our formulas are since they are proprietary information thatis kept secret by each company.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby shags » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:58 am

Steve, you know the dog food advisor guy is a dentist, right?

You gonna trust a dentist who might have a financial interest in his website, or the actual scientists who conduct millions of dollars worth of research in canine nutrition?

As an aside for anyone interested, Tufts has published some research regarding grain-free dog food, and homemade raw diets and their relationship to dilated cardiomyopathy. There's another one that relates DCM to foods with nightshade products (potatos) also.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby ezzy333 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:56 am

shags wrote:Steve, you know the dog food advisor guy is a dentist, right?

You gonna trust a dentist who might have a financial interest in his website, or the actual scientists who conduct millions of dollars worth of research in canine nutrition?

As an aside for anyone interested, Tufts has published some research regarding grain-free dog food, and homemade raw diets and their relationship to dilated cardiomyopathy. There's another one that relates DCM to foods with nightshade products (potatos) also.


Thanks Shags, you are right on que with that info.

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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby BuckeyeSteve » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:02 pm

shags wrote:Steve, you know the dog food advisor guy is a dentist, right?

You gonna trust a dentist who might have a financial interest in his website, or the actual scientists who conduct millions of dollars worth of research in canine nutrition?

As an aside for anyone interested, Tufts has published some research regarding grain-free dog food, and homemade raw diets and their relationship to dilated cardiomyopathy. There's another one that relates DCM to foods with nightshade products (potatos) also.



Yes...I do trust the dentist who has devoted his life to comparing dog foods. He probably gets some money from Chewy for pushing them as a distributor....but there is no doubt he gets nothing from the manufacturers. Believe me....if he could be bought, Purina would be the buyer -- not some little niche organic dog food company that does $300,000 in annual revenue. The ingredients are the ingredients regardless of who writes them onto a website. He does state that he was a dentist right on his website, but knowing how difficult medical school is, that doesn't bother me. The idea that "actual scientists conduct millions of dollars of research in canine nutrition"....if you're referring to Purina "scientists"..... I'm not in the same camp on that. I don't think Purina is disconnected from their own financial interests and out there making dog food because they just love dogs. They also make low end chicken food. Large corporations are there for profit, and profit comes from cost cutting materials and good sales and marketing strategies. I've got no skin in the game here....I'm certainly happy with any one who wants to support Purina b/c they sponsor a lot of gun dog competitions, but I don't for a second believe they make a superior dog (or chicken, or game bird, or horse) food. The comparison would be like saying that my wife can't feed our children the quality of food they can get from McDonalds because of McDonalds top notch food scientists.
On a related note.... I don't have the money to buy the majority of foods that review really well on that site. There's no doubt that the boutique dog foods are for a very selective clientele, and that's not me...but I did find a couple that are only marginally more expensive than what we were previously feeding and that reviewed (accurately) far better. If it doesn't make any difference to my dog....I'm not out too much for trying.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby averageguy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:47 am

Any company, large or small, that is not motivated to make a profit, and does not, ceases to exist.

There is a market for high quality dog food and there is a market for low end dog foods. Why would anyone think Purina is not interested in capturing as much market share of each as they can and do? Notions a for profit motivation makes Purina unique and more prone to cost cutting at the expense of quality is unfounded conspiracy theory. It is a fact that Purina has done the most extensive research in the industry, for the longest of time.

Myself and many others have proven to ourselves the value of Purina's high end products by using them for decades on our dogs. Dogs which lived long and healthy lives, and hunted hard and long in the field for days in a row. The proof is in the doing and that is what many users have posted here. Pro Trainers and Competitors will use what is best and do.

Subaru tells us their vehicles are "Love" and apparently it sells a lot of them in doing so. Tell someone your dog food has better ingredients and price it much higher than the industry leader and some will follow.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby ezzy333 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:05 am

BuckeyeSteve wrote:
shags wrote:Steve, you know the dog food advisor guy is a dentist, right?

You gonna trust a dentist who might have a financial interest in his website, or the actual scientists who conduct millions of dollars worth of research in canine nutrition?

As an aside for anyone interested, Tufts has published some research regarding grain-free dog food, and homemade raw diets and their relationship to dilated cardiomyopathy. There's another one that relates DCM to foods with nightshade products (potatos) also.



Yes...I do trust the dentist who has devoted his life to comparing dog foods. He probably gets some money from Chewy for pushing them as a distributor....but there is no doubt he gets nothing from the manufacturers. Believe me....if he could be bought, Purina would be the buyer -- not some little niche organic dog food company that does $300,000 in annual revenue. The ingredients are the ingredients regardless of who writes them onto a website. He does state that he was a dentist right on his website, but knowing how difficult medical school is, that doesn't bother me. The idea that "actual scientists conduct millions of dollars of research in canine nutrition"....if you're referring to Purina "scientists"..... I'm not in the same camp on that. I don't think Purina is disconnected from their own financial interests and out there making dog food because they just love dogs. They also make low end chicken food. Large corporations are there for profit, and profit comes from cost cutting materials and good sales and marketing strategies. I've got no skin in the game here....I'm certainly happy with any one who wants to support Purina b/c they sponsor a lot of gun dog competitions, but I don't for a second believe they make a superior dog (or chicken, or game bird, or horse) food. The comparison would be like saying that my wife can't feed our children the quality of food they can get from McDonalds because of McDonalds top notch food scientists.
On a related note.... I don't have the money to buy the majority of foods that review really well on that site. There's no doubt that the boutique dog foods are for a very selective clientele, and that's not me...but I did find a couple that are only marginally more expensive than what we were previously feeding and that reviewed (accurately) far better. If it doesn't make any difference to my dog....I'm not out too much for trying.


There is one way and only one way you can make money in a saturated market and that is repeat business. No reputable company that has survived over a period of time has done it by cutting costs if it is at the expense of producing a quality product. I was lucky enough to have had the opportunity to work on our research facilities and along with the university research people and Purina research department. They not only took a leadership role in the research of feeding dogs but they also took an important role in financing along with great facilities and equipment. That is the reason they have been able to maintain there position as the leading dog and pet food supplier throughout the world. I think you can easily understand why cost cutting can not ever compete over the long run as there is a limit as what you can cut. Believe it or not, and I will leave that for to discover, there are many good feeds on the market that continue to make quality products. The evidence lies on your store shelves. Stores, no matter how big, do not stock or sell feed that is manufactured by companies, no matter how big, that no one buys. And people continue to buy feed that works for their dogs, and as you know there are probably as many performance dogs fed Purina manufactured feeds as most of the other brands combined in the US and probably throughout the world. Lets just hope that companies like Purina continue to be profitable so they will continue to research as well as provide the quality products they have for the past decades along with several other companies that are active in the field also.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby Dakotazeb » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:04 am

Whether it's on this forum or others when it comes to discussing Purina it is very apparent that some people out there just have a penchant for Purina. No sense in arguing with them. Kind of like politics. I think the number of healthy, champion field trial dogs that are thriving on ProPlan speaks for itself.






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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby JONOV » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:24 am

gunguy wrote:I hear a lot about how Purina Pro Plan is the "the best food for sporting dogs" and its "the food that 8 out of 10 champions eat" and so fourth. This is also the food that the breeder who I got my Lab from recommended, but why? After looking into it and its ingredients it doesn't look that good. What's all the hype about? Dog food adviser only rates it a 2.5 out 5. I am not trying to talk smack or start a fight, I am genuinely curious why this food is so popular.

Can you explain what qualifications Dog Food Advisor has? Why should I listen to him?

Let's dispense with conspiracy theories one way or another, as they serve only to inflame. I have no reason to believe that Dog Food Advisor is on the take from anyone, has a hidden agenda, or anything else. I also believe that he is a genuine, intelligent, person (obviously if he's a dentist.) I don't believe that any of that makes him particularly qualified to weigh in on dog food, anymore than it makes a Physical Therapist qualified to weigh in on the merits of vaccination.

I also have no reason to believe that Purina wants to do anything but sell as much dog food as they can, today and tomorrow and in 2028. That means that they can't be poisoning dogs, bogged down with recalls, or have foods that lead to crummy coats or performance in their most visible users; Show and Trial dogs. Just like Nike can't be making shoes that weigh 3lbs a piece for LeBron James or golf clubs that Tiger Woods can't hit, or most importantly shoes that don't work for Ken the Quarterback for Landry High and Jenny the High School CC Runner, or Ken and Jenny's father that golfs and jogs.

I went around the world with dog foods my first year. Fromm. Pro Plan, Purina One Puppy, PPP 30/20, Merrick, . Then I talked to my vet. My vet didn't have a specific recommendation but sold Purina veterinary diet foods in his office, said "its a good food and there are other good foods" and gave me a recommendation on nutrient profiles to look for, and said don't get caught up in grain/no grain unless . And my uncle, who is a vet, and hunted with a guy that's a DVM, and trained at NAVHDA with a vet, and all said PPP was a good food.

Also, this stuck with me, and was told to me about both Dog Food factories and Nutritional supplements and Pharmaceuticals for humans. Someone told me that the bigger the target, the deeper the FDA sticks their nose in. Meaning, for the biggest and most widely distributed, they set up camp come inspection time. The small time guy that does $400,000 in business? Might not even get the meter read.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby averageguy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:26 am

Over the long haul I have fed Purina, Science Diet, Iams and Inukshuk to name a few name brands. Never had any that I would say failed, but some dogs did better on some feeds was my impression working them on a regular basis. I use some high calorie supplements and Inukshuk 32/32 when I need to get more calories into my current dog. Whether it has resulted in keeping his weight up during the core of hunting seasons has been far less clear than has the increase in soft stool. I mostly feed PPP 30/20 and the dog always has a good energy level to work under any conditions other than extreme heat.

There are a lot of hounds which will run the average bird dog into the ground over the long haul, eating Ol Roy. I don't feed Ol Roy, just making a point that some segments of the working dog world make more of this issue than others while the difference in their results are far closer than the arguments infer.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby Dakotazeb » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:09 pm

I haven't really studied Dog Food Adviser real close but it appears that the foods are rated by an assessment of the ingredients in the food, not any practical use in the field or the real world. I have also noticed that most of the grain-free, holistic and organic foods seem to get the highest ratings which has caused me to be somewhat suspect of their rating system.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby shags » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:47 pm

How can a small company making $300K or so possibly afford to run studies on their products? I guess they could afford pay someone to read DogFoodAdvisor, and tell them what's in the highest-rated foods, then copy those ingredients :?


Some articles of interest...

http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2018/06/a ... gredients/

The Tufts article has some sidebars that may be of interest, as they are related to this one ^^^^

https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Ne ... 613305.htm
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby Dakotazeb » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:47 pm

shags wrote:How can a small company making $300K or so possibly afford to run studies on their products? I guess they could afford pay someone to read DogFoodAdvisor, and tell them what's in the highest-rated foods, then copy those ingredients :?


Some articles of interest...

http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2018/06/a ... gredients/

The Tufts article has some sidebars that may be of interest, as they are related to this one ^^^^

https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Ne ... 613305.htm


The Tufts article is pretty good. But geez, a guy could spend a lifetime reading about "petfoodology" and still not know what's best for your dog. It's sure a complex thing and we tend to over think it. Probably for 99% of us it's just a matter of buying a quality dog food and if your dog does well on it, stay with it. If not, try another brand. I kind of had to laugh when he really knocked homemade and raw diets. Unless you have a degree in "Petfoodology" how can the average person even began to make sure their raw diet has all the nutrients it should. Purina and a lot of other large pet food manufactures have spent a lot of time, effort and money to study this subject and produce a food that is nutritionally balanced for your pet.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby Urban_Redneck » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:16 am

Dakotazeb wrote:
shags wrote:How can a small company making $300K or so possibly afford to run studies on their products? I guess they could afford pay someone to read DogFoodAdvisor, and tell them what's in the highest-rated foods, then copy those ingredients :?


Some articles of interest...

http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2018/06/a ... gredients/

The Tufts article has some sidebars that may be of interest, as they are related to this one ^^^^

https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Ne ... 613305.htm


The Tufts article is pretty good. But geez, a guy could spend a lifetime reading about "petfoodology" and still not know what's best for your dog. It's sure a complex thing and we tend to over think it. Probably for 99% of us it's just a matter of buying a quality dog food and if your dog does well on it, stay with it. If not, try another brand. I kind of had to laugh when he really knocked homemade and raw diets. Unless you have a degree in "Petfoodology" how can the average person even began to make sure their raw diet has all the nutrients it should. Purina and a lot of other large pet food manufactures have spent a lot of time, effort and money to study this subject and produce a food that is nutritionally balanced for your pet.


Taurine is an amino acid that is present (in varying amounts) in animal flesh, while cooking temperatures don't destroy taurine, boiling will leech the (water soluble) taurine into the cooking liquid. So, depending process and starches used, bagged dog food may or may not have heart healthy levels of taurine. The Tufts and FDA article speculate that there is a link between reduced taurine uptake and legumes, it might be so.

My dog lives exclusively on raw meat, bones, and organs, she gets plenty of taurine. I don't know any learned raw feeders that feed high glycemic vegetables, legumes, or grains. If you are concerned about taurine, feed a few raw chicken thighs every week- dark meat chicken has high levels of taurine as does raw fish. Eggs contain cysteine, which help boost your dog's uptake of taurine as well.

If I was buying bagged dog food, I'd look for the one that has the highest percentage of protein from animal flesh. Unfortunately that's one of the industry secrets :cry:
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby BuckeyeSteve » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:31 am

averageguy wrote:Any company, large or small, that is not motivated to make a profit, and does not, ceases to exist.

There is a market for high quality dog food and there is a market for low end dog foods. Why would anyone think Purina is not interested in capturing as much market share of each as they can and do? Notions a for profit motivation makes Purina unique and more prone to cost cutting at the expense of quality is unfounded conspiracy theory. It is a fact that Purina has done the most extensive research in the industry, for the longest of time.

Myself and many others have proven to ourselves the value of Purina's high end products by using them for decades on our dogs. Dogs which lived long and healthy lives, and hunted hard and long in the field for days in a row. The proof is in the doing and that is what many users have posted here. Pro Trainers and Competitors will use what is best and do.

Subaru tells us their vehicles are "Love" and apparently it sells a lot of them in doing so. Tell someone your dog food has better ingredients and price it much higher than the industry leader and some will follow.


I agree with all of that..... Still not sold on Purina -- I know what it does to my chicken's poop vs higher end chicken food -- but in theory I certainly agree with you.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby BuckeyeSteve » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:44 am

There is one way and only one way you can make money in a saturated market and that is repeat business. No reputable company that has survived over a period of time has done it by cutting costs if it is at the expense of producing a quality product. I was lucky enough to have had the opportunity to work on our research facilities and along with the university research people and Purina research department. They not only took a leadership role in the research of feeding dogs but they also took an important role in financing along with great facilities and equipment. That is the reason they have been able to maintain there position as the leading dog and pet food supplier throughout the world. I think you can easily understand why cost cutting can not ever compete over the long run as there is a limit as what you can cut. Believe it or not, and I will leave that for to discover, there are many good feeds on the market that continue to make quality products. The evidence lies on your store shelves. Stores, no matter how big, do not stock or sell feed that is manufactured by companies, no matter how big, that no one buys. And people continue to buy feed that works for their dogs, and as you know there are probably as many performance dogs fed Purina manufactured feeds as most of the other brands combined in the US and probably throughout the world. Lets just hope that companies like Purina continue to be profitable so they will continue to research as well as provide the quality products they have for the past decades along with several other companies that are active in the field also.[/quote]

I also agree with you here.... Believe me -- I'm not bashing Purina. There are some dog foods out there made from true crap that are intended only to fill the role of being cheap. Purina, at least their high end performance foods, is far from that in my belief. I just also believe there are ultra-high end foods that are even better. They use the highest quality and charge for it. I'm not buying most of those....they're 100.00 for a 32lb bag, and it's just not happening - but I acknowledge if I was willing to pay triple, there are health advantages to it. Just like we buy good quality foods from Giant Eagle or Kroger for the family...but still if I was willing to pay triple I could go all organic and eat filet & lobster every day. To that point....some of these foods actually have filet and lobster in them. I clearly see that is ridiculous, and more meant for someones show poodle than a sporting dog....but if you want to spend the money on your dog, there is someone out there filling the niche spot in the market. This discussion started, btw, as my defense of the dogfoodadvisor website, not as any kind of attack on Purina. I simply think the guy has good intentions and has built an great website with an incredible amount of information (not opinion), and I don't think he's dishonest in his evaluations. If people ever incorrectly attacked the validity, ethics, or quality of my company, I'd hope my customer's spoke up in defense of it, too.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby BuckeyeSteve » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:54 am

JONOV wrote:
gunguy wrote:I hear a lot about how Purina Pro Plan is the "the best food for sporting dogs" and its "the food that 8 out of 10 champions eat" and so fourth. This is also the food that the breeder who I got my Lab from recommended, but why? After looking into it and its ingredients it doesn't look that good. What's all the hype about? Dog food adviser only rates it a 2.5 out 5. I am not trying to talk smack or start a fight, I am genuinely curious why this food is so popular.

Can you explain what qualifications Dog Food Advisor has? Why should I listen to him?

Let's dispense with conspiracy theories one way or another, as they serve only to inflame. I have no reason to believe that Dog Food Advisor is on the take from anyone, has a hidden agenda, or anything else. I also believe that he is a genuine, intelligent, person (obviously if he's a dentist.) I don't believe that any of that makes him particularly qualified to weigh in on dog food, anymore than it makes a Physical Therapist qualified to weigh in on the merits of vaccination.

I also have no reason to believe that Purina wants to do anything but sell as much dog food as they can, today and tomorrow and in 2028. That means that they can't be poisoning dogs, bogged down with recalls, or have foods that lead to crummy coats or performance in their most visible users; Show and Trial dogs. Just like Nike can't be making shoes that weigh 3lbs a piece for LeBron James or golf clubs that Tiger Woods can't hit, or most importantly shoes that don't work for Ken the Quarterback for Landry High and Jenny the High School CC Runner, or Ken and Jenny's father that golfs and jogs.

I went around the world with dog foods my first year. Fromm. Pro Plan, Purina One Puppy, PPP 30/20, Merrick, . Then I talked to my vet. My vet didn't have a specific recommendation but sold Purina veterinary diet foods in his office, said "its a good food and there are other good foods" and gave me a recommendation on nutrient profiles to look for, and said don't get caught up in grain/no grain unless . And my uncle, who is a vet, and hunted with a guy that's a DVM, and trained at NAVHDA with a vet, and all said PPP was a good food.


I agree with you on this completely. Purina is most definitely not poisoning dogs, they are providing a high quality product in their upper end foods, and I wouldn't question they are an ethical company that does a lot for the sport. To answer the question on what makes DFA qaulified....I'd just say lots of research and direct nutritional comparison. I think any intelligent person who devotes themselves to a subject deeply enough can be an expert. But, like many other subjects in life....not all experts agree. I think this whole conversation is splitting hairs, discussing the difference between "very good" and "very very good". Someone earlier pointed out, very accurately, how much Purina does for sporting dogs outside of providing food for them to eat....and I think there's a lot to be said for that too.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby shags » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:09 am

Steve, what kind of research do you think DFA does? Do they go online and compare labels? Do they collect and compare anecdotal data? Or do they have a multi-million dollar facility with a colony of dozens of dogs that are fed and observed under controlled situations? IMO, it's not the latter. Having worked in an animal reseach facility I know that real research employs hundreds of people from animal caretakers to biologic scientists to veterinary pathologists to study writers. In real research, subjects are tested through means such as blood tests and stool analysis, all the way up to sacrifice and post mortem examination, including histology. In my facility, even embryos were tested.

What is the difference between good and very good? Is filet mignon more nutritious than meatloaf? Is kangaroo more beneficial than pork, beef, or chicken? What do a few processed peas and bluberries contribute to a dog's health?

A friend of ours is a professional handler of show dogs, and has some top ranked dogs on her string, including dual champion pointing dogs. Coat and condition are important, and she works hard to maintain it. For years the string did great on a Purina performance product, but looking for more of an edge, the handler went to a super-premium small company brand. It was so expensive that clients saw a significant increase in fees because of it. Long story somewhat shorter, it didn't work out at all...coats turned dry and funky, dogs either got fat or lost weight, and the kennel cleanup was a nightmare. None of the dogs showed enough improvement to continue with the added expense.

Some dogs do well no matter what we feed, others need special consideration. The point is more to find what works that is affordable and easily available, and gives us results. Most of us would like to find the holy grail of dog food, and to me, that is a huge variable and there's not one answer for everybody. If a super premium food was the best answer, wouldn't every breeder, competitor, trainer, or owner jump on that advantage?

It's easy to get sucked in to marketing hype. "Feed 'em like family"? IMO DFA contributes to that.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby JONOV » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:58 pm

BuckeyeSteve wrote:
JONOV wrote:
gunguy wrote:I hear a lot about how Purina Pro Plan is the "the best food for sporting dogs" and its "the food that 8 out of 10 champions eat" and so fourth. This is also the food that the breeder who I got my Lab from recommended, but why? After looking into it and its ingredients it doesn't look that good. What's all the hype about? Dog food adviser only rates it a 2.5 out 5. I am not trying to talk smack or start a fight, I am genuinely curious why this food is so popular.

Can you explain what qualifications Dog Food Advisor has? Why should I listen to him?

Let's dispense with conspiracy theories one way or another, as they serve only to inflame. I have no reason to believe that Dog Food Advisor is on the take from anyone, has a hidden agenda, or anything else. I also believe that he is a genuine, intelligent, person (obviously if he's a dentist.) I don't believe that any of that makes him particularly qualified to weigh in on dog food, anymore than it makes a Physical Therapist qualified to weigh in on the merits of vaccination.

I also have no reason to believe that Purina wants to do anything but sell as much dog food as they can, today and tomorrow and in 2028. That means that they can't be poisoning dogs, bogged down with recalls, or have foods that lead to crummy coats or performance in their most visible users; Show and Trial dogs. Just like Nike can't be making shoes that weigh 3lbs a piece for LeBron James or golf clubs that Tiger Woods can't hit, or most importantly shoes that don't work for Ken the Quarterback for Landry High and Jenny the High School CC Runner, or Ken and Jenny's father that golfs and jogs.

I went around the world with dog foods my first year. Fromm. Pro Plan, Purina One Puppy, PPP 30/20, Merrick, . Then I talked to my vet. My vet didn't have a specific recommendation but sold Purina veterinary diet foods in his office, said "its a good food and there are other good foods" and gave me a recommendation on nutrient profiles to look for, and said don't get caught up in grain/no grain unless . And my uncle, who is a vet, and hunted with a guy that's a DVM, and trained at NAVHDA with a vet, and all said PPP was a good food.


I agree with you on this completely. Purina is most definitely not poisoning dogs, they are providing a high quality product in their upper end foods, and I wouldn't question they are an ethical company that does a lot for the sport. To answer the question on what makes DFA qaulified....I'd just say lots of research and direct nutritional comparison. I think any intelligent person who devotes themselves to a subject deeply enough can be an expert. But, like many other subjects in life....not all experts agree. I think this whole conversation is splitting hairs, discussing the difference between "very good" and "very very good". Someone earlier pointed out, very accurately, how much Purina does for sporting dogs outside of providing food for them to eat....and I think there's a lot to be said for that too.

As has been rehashed, my big red flag about DFA is that they place such a high premium based on ingredients, without much evidence as to why. Why is corn or corn meal inherently better than rice or peas? Some folks also talk about chicken vs chicken meal...That's understandable, but when making kibble you will cook most of the moisture out of the chicken, meaning you get much less bang for your buck in terms of macronutrients.
shags wrote:How can a small company making $300K or so possibly afford to run studies on their products? I guess they could afford pay someone to read DogFoodAdvisor, and tell them what's in the highest-rated foods, then copy those ingredients :?


Some articles of interest...

http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2018/06/a ... gredients/

The Tufts article has some sidebars that may be of interest, as they are related to this one ^^^^

https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Ne ... 613305.htm

I'll play devils advocate here...

It isn't Rocket Science, its Food and/or Animal Science. Which isn't an easy field of study, but you can hire someone that's studied it. And, you can find peer reviewed research on it too. And, much like baking cookies, brewing beer, or weaving cloth, one can make a high quality product without having a lab at their fingertips.

All the same, my complaint with DFA is the same complaint with folks that think artisinal pink crystallized salt is healthier for them than Mortons.

Its the major problem with the internet. Everyone is given equal voice, and that's a problem. I can pay someone $200 to make me a slick website and get some pictures and testimonials and have you thinking XYZ Dog food is Pelletized Death Nuggets in a hurry, and that you really better by my food made only from the offal of Vegan Goats.

It is reflective of the world we live in. A world where a lawyer turned speaker, nutritionist, writer, etc, can share a facebook post about sniffing rosemary and increasing memory by 75% despite no evidence to back such claims up, and sell out concert halls to hear him talk. A world where Vani Hari concludes that because an ingredient is used in yoga mats, it must not be safe for bread, or a where she decides that an ingredient in beer is sourced from a less attractive part of a fish, and must be stricken. Water is needed to survive, but if you drink too much too quickly it will make your brain swell up and you can die. Water will eat through an iron chain. Fish Pee in water. These are common logical fallacies that are sold to us.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that people will cherry pick data or cite studies with no real knowledge as to the context, or cite anecdotes that have little application to macro-level studies. My dog is allergic to something in science diet. My friend has fed two labs into their teenage years on Science Diet. My experience doesn't make it a bad food.

Any chemist or pharmacist or doctor will tell you, "the dose makes the poison," with most things.
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Re: Why Purina Pro Plan?

Postby mnaj_springer » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:49 am

Dog food posts always get interesting and in-depth.

To the OP, I feed both my dogs Purina Pro Plan Sport- the 30/20. I feed it to them all year long, just cutting back the amount in the off-season. Here's why I chose it:

I wanted chicken to be the first ingredient. Check. I wanted a national brand in case I ever ran out while on the road. Check. I wanted a company that was going to stay in business for the life of my dogs. Check. I wanted high protein/high fat content. Check.

Then my wife and I compared the cost per day based on Kcal needs of my dogs. PPP Sport was the cheapest of the dog foods fit my needs because of the Kcal value.

It may not be the best, but it was the best for us and my dogs perform well on it. They are little rockets out in the field and their coats, nails, skin, and stools are all healthy.
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