GSP lost 7 pounds in year

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PoorMansWrangler
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GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:26 am

Recently took my 4 year old GSP into the vet to get checked, and he is down 7 pounds since last year. Vet seemed concerned, so we did a blood panel which came up normal. Vet recommended increasing food, currently feed 4 cups of PPP once a day. Dog is very active, 4-10 mile off leash runs every day, and typically 40 miles a weekend ( guide dog at a preserve). Any thoughts? Currently weighs 54 pounds.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by weimdogman » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:58 am

I would look at size of the stools. If the dog is passing the food rather then digesting,then increasing volume won't help. Believe you dont want to feed 2X a day but that is what I do. 4cups at a time is a lot to process.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by Sharon » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:54 pm

Unless the vet found some health problem, I can fully understand why your dog would lose a lot of weight. That is a LOT of exercise- lucky dog.
(See what weimdogman said- I'd go with twice a day.)

Hopefully dog dr. will answer.
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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:52 pm

We have been floating his food heavy in the evening when we feed, would that have anything to do with absorption? Stools are a little on the bigger size, but healthy looking and firm

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by shags » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:41 pm

How does the dog look? Is he all lean muscle, or does he have bones sticking out? What did he look like before the lost weight? Was he round, with no ribs visible? Could you feel ribs or hip bones? Or did he start out thin?

Don't worry about numbers on a scale or a chart. Use your eyes and hands to make a call.

I remember working hard to get a dog in shape for a championship. Had him right where I thought he looked great...nice tuck up, last rib visible, good muscle, I could feel but not see his hip bones and vertebrae. He ran OK and I had no complaints but later that day a big pro came over to talk and told me the dog was too heavy and could lose 2-3 pounds :o

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:02 pm

I can upload photos tomorrow when I get in the office, but you can see his hip bones when looking from the top, and last couple ribs. Energy still seems the same, gobbles his food down every night

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by shags » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:55 pm

If you think he's too thin, up his feed gradually. Don't overload or go too fast, because chances are he'll squirt it right out before it does him any good. High calorie snacks throughout the day might work also, if that fits into your schedule.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:25 pm

Snacks would definitely work better with our schedule, do you have any favorites you could recommend?

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by deseeker » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:29 pm

If your dog runs as much as you say he does, I'd worry about twisted stomach if you load him up on feed in the morning before running him. just something to think about. It's always better to feed at night--that way they have time to digest the food and clear the stomach before running. PPP is 30/20 & Diamond Extreme Athlete is 32/25 are higher protein/fat foods. Satin Balls will add weight to a dog if you are desperate I'm more inclined to think your dog is in really good shape and not over weight. JMO

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:30 am

That’s why I just feed once a day in the evening, I will look into satin balls thank you!

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:43 am

Picture
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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by cjhills » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:34 am

He does look a bit under weight. Not terrible.
My main concern would be that he dropped that much weight in a year unless there was a big change in his exercise. I think I would cut back on his work load a little. He will not be able to maintain that level for a long period of time unless he gets to rest up in the off season. You may Need another dog or two if you are guiding that much. He also will not be able to process enough calories to maintain his weight.
He appears to be a rather large framed dog. They generally have a little harder time maintaining their weight.
Be aware that most vets do not like to see a dog at the weight most of us like. They will consider that under weight, but obesity is far worse...........Cj

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:12 am

With the past year, we have had more time to run and train, so that may have something to do with it. He is out of DK breeding, so he is a larger framed dog. As for the second dog, just got a pointer puppy who will be pulling light duty. In the summer, we typically don’t put on as many miles due to the heat, mainly focus on water work, so I increased his food last night by a quarter of the cup, I will most likely bump his food intake up another cup or two during the season when we are rolling heavy.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by dog dr » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:15 pm

more fat

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by cjhills » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:22 pm

Sorry I did not notice that you feed four cups once a day.
I have fed my dogs PPPP for years. I feed most of my dogs 4 cups a day. They are all smaller framed dogs than yours. I do feed twice a day. Not that I think it is better for the dog, but is better for me. I have had dogs that have weight issues. I do try to feed them more, if you increase slowly you might be able to do that. I have not had a lot of luck with that. Watch his stool because it may get runny and that don't help. Saturated coconut oil some times helps. I also have had pretty good luck with feeding raw meet. I had a deal with the DNR to pick up road killed deer. That worked good but it is messy and required a freezer. Some people think it is dangerous. But I think that is what dogs were designed to eat.......Cj

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by slistoe » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:02 pm

PoorMansWrangler wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:12 am
With the past year, we have had more time to run and train, so that may have something to do with it. He is out of DK breeding, so he is a larger framed dog. As for the second dog, just got a pointer puppy who will be pulling light duty. In the summer, we typically don’t put on as many miles due to the heat, mainly focus on water work, so I increased his food last night by a quarter of the cup, I will most likely bump his food intake up another cup or two during the season when we are rolling heavy.
Why not just throw a couple tablespoons of lard on his nightly feed - start with a tablespoon and after his system is adjusted increase to two and maybe even three when you are working him hard. I have also used canola oil but I think the lard works better.
That is if you are concerned about it - the picture doesn't show a dog that I would be concerned about.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:46 pm

I’m not worried about his weight, vet spooked me by being so concerned. Really just wanted second opinions and this is my first dog

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by shags » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:29 pm

if your vet seemed alarmed, it's probably just because 7 pounds is a lot to lose for no apparent reason...but the lab results were good and your explanation of your dog's work explained the weight loss. Having your vet take notice is a good thing.

Some vets get so used to seeing chubbo dogs that they forget what a working dog looks like. I took a dog to Ohio State vet school for an injury and the attending had all her students come over to check him out because they so rarely see a fit intact male any more.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by birddogger2 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:24 pm

PMW -

I don't see anything in that picture that would lead me to believe your dog is anything but extremely fit. A that distance I might expect to see the rise and fall of ribs.. but I don't even see that. Deep chest, nice tuck up after the chest and some good length to the body for a smooth gait. NICE.

In the past, when I hunted my dogs multiple days per week, I would supplement with pure raw beef fat. I'd wait for a high end beef sale(prime rib or steaks) and go to the supermarket. More often than not the butchers would give me all the fat I asked for from the trimmings barrels. sometimes they would charge me ten cents a pound because they had to charge something. I would go home, dice it up, package it in 1/4 lb. baggies and freeze it.

I think your dog looks fine. I like to see more muscle in the back end, but I run pointers who are built a little different. the way your dog is built, I would think hard about feeding the dog in the morning before running him. Stomach torsion is a thing with shorthairs and it is best avoided. The best preventative(as I understand it) is to run the dog on an empty stomach.

RayG

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by cjhills » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:54 pm

Two things about the above post
When I fed raw meat,the dogs could not digest the raw fat. It came out just like it went in.
The other thing is I never heard of torsion being a issue in Shorthairs before. I have never seen a torsion in a dog. But as I understand it torsion occurs more in breeds that have a large midsection and is more common in retriever breeds. I do not feed a large amount before a run. I do feed a smaller amount in the morning.........Cj

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by DonF » Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:02 pm

He looks fine to me. Getting a lot of running and probably in great shape. I had a Female GSP years ago and took her to the vet after a weekend hunting chuker. Vet thought she was in trouble she looked so thin. I was used to it. Told the vet she go 48# and he said no way. Weighted her and exactly 48 pounds. She was in great shape and some stress after a three day weekend.
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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by PoorMansWrangler » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:17 am

Thanks for all the advice! Super thankful to get second opinions from more experienced handlers out there!

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by cjhills » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:58 am

I did have one other thought. He could have a tape worm. They are hard to detect. Probably not likely but possible. They seem to get them from eating small rodents.......Cj

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by weimdogman » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:49 pm

From your picture I believe I see top of hip bone? That is where I begin to up food intake.

GSPs can have torsion. Big meals can be as dangerous as exercising on a smaller meal. I just can't feed over 4 cups at a time in good conscience. My dogs ideally weigh around 75ibs. and I switched to PPP just because feeding 3+1/2 cups 2x a day bothered me. Stools were large and dogs needed more. I don't like the 30% protein but they do well on it for now.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by cjhills » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:39 pm

I did not mean that GSPs can't have torsions. I am sure any breed can get one. Bu I do not believe it is a common issue with GSPs or a thing as was stated in a previous post. In my experience with many dogs in the field In I have never seen a dog have one and I think torsion is quite rare. I do think in some of the areas I hunt a dog would be very luck to survive if he had a torsion so we try to avoid them and have so far........Cj

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by dog dr » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:27 am

more fat

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by weimdogman » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:29 am

How do you add the fat?

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by dog dr » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:55 am

weimdogman wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:29 am
How do you add the fat?
meat trimmings, corn oil, lard, etc

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by weimdogman » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:10 am

So if you use lard , 1 tblspn for how many cups?

Corn oil tblspn per ?

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by slistoe » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:21 pm

weimdogman wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:10 am
So if you use lard , 1 tblspn for how many cups?

Corn oil tblspn per ?
Lard - a good dollop. Oil - a heavy glug.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by weimdogman » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:36 am

I was hoping dog dr. might offer some guidelines a little more specific then dollops and glugs.😉

USDA says 115 calories and 13 grams of fat in a tablespoon of lard.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by slistoe » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:07 am

Maybe it would be easier if you let the dog food company add the fat for you https://www.inukshukpro.com/inukshuk-3232

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by slistoe » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:14 am

Doing the math on it - if you are feeding 3 cups of proplan 30/20 and add 2 tablespoons of lard you would then be at 30% fat content from the 20%.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by weimdogman » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:05 pm

slistoe wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:07 am
Maybe it would be easier if you let the dog food company add the fat for you https://www.inukshukpro.com/inukshuk-3232
Less then 200kcal per cup different then ppp 30/20

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by slistoe » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:22 pm

weimdogman wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:05 pm
slistoe wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:07 am
Maybe it would be easier if you let the dog food company add the fat for you https://www.inukshukpro.com/inukshuk-3232
Less then 200kcal per cup different then ppp 30/20
37% more calories in every cup.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by weimdogman » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:21 pm

slistoe wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:22 pm
weimdogman wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:05 pm
slistoe wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:07 am
Maybe it would be easier if you let the dog food company add the fat for you https://www.inukshukpro.com/inukshuk-3232
Less then 200kcal per cup different then ppp 30/20
37% more calories in every cup.
How ? Where is this info

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by Sharon » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:59 pm

Just check the link . It explains it.
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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by weimdogman » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:41 pm

I looked at the link on my phone and brought up the nutrition for the lesser food not the 32/32.🙄
The 32/32 has almost 50% more kcal per cup.

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by slistoe » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:46 pm

Not sure why I jumped in this wormhole.
Inukshuk 32/32 - 720 kcal/cup
PPP 30/20 Salmon - 527 kcal/cup

720-527=193
193/527x100=36.6%

So the Inukshuk 32/32 has 37% more calories per cup of food than PPP Salmon.
Most folks I know feeding PPP are feeding the Chicken formula.

PPP 30/20 Chicken - 484 kcal/cup

720-484=236
236/484x100=48.8%

So if you are feeding PPP Chicken then the Inukshuk 32/32 has 49% more calories in every cup of food.

If you are feeding PPP Chicken and you add 1 tbsp of Lard to the cup of feed you would be increasing the calorie intake by 24%

115/484x100=23.8%

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by Sharon » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:23 pm

And you thought math homework was over. :) A+
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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by weimdogman » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:43 pm

Thanks for crunching those numbers😁

I started a thread about adding olive oil as I wanted more fat without going to a higher protein/higher fat and never got these numbers worked out.

This thread should be helpful to many!

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Re: GSP lost 7 pounds in year

Post by shags » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:49 am

C'mon, man! Way too complicated. :P

Go with a dollop or glug. If the dog pukes or gets the squirts, cut back. Or start with a small dollop or glug, and work your way up.

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