Gun Dog Forum

All my dogs are outside kennel dogs. During cold weather and especially cold damp weather you have to over feed the dogs to maintain good body weight and condition. Yep they get some loose stools. I quit looking for perfect dog turds years ago. Maintaining condition and good weight is more important. What the bag recommends for the proper amount will give you a sick skinny dog in no time flat if the dog stays outside. I am sure keeping dogs indoors or in a heated kennel building you could feed way less feed, maybe even what the bag says but I kinda doubt it if you are working the dogs hard. This week here in sc the temps at night in the low teens, good dog food and enough of it plus dry straw in the houses is all I do. The dogs do fine.

Mo

If nothing else works to stop the diarrhea I think it is the WHEAT in the food. I have known dogs to have uncontrolable loose stools like your describing when eating any food with WHEAT of any kind. You could try Diamond Naturals Chicken/Rice adult food which has NO wheat or corn. It is worth a try.

MikeB wrote:If nothing else works to stop the diarrhea I think it is the WHEAT in the food. I have known dogs to have uncontrolable loose stools like your describing when eating any food with WHEAT of any kind. You could try Diamond Naturals Chicken/Rice adult food which has NO wheat or corn. It is worth a try.

And what is the difference between wheat and rice? Both are grain seeds with very very similiar qualities. Corn also I pretty much the same but does have more oil and protein in it. Doubt if it would be from any grain unless you have that one dog in bout amillion that could have an allergy to it.

Ezzy

There are new facts to this case. I think if he starts measuring this will pass. Two soft piles just sounds like too much food. The Vet found nothing wrong.

My suggestion: Fast these dogs for one day then cut them back to a normal ration of 2-3 cups rather than 4-5 cups. Keep the probiotics going.

mcbosco wrote:There are new facts to this case. I think if he starts measuring this will pass. Two soft piles just sounds like too much food. The Vet found nothing wrong.

My suggestion: Fast these dogs for one day then cut them back to a normal ration of 2-3 cups rather than 4-5 cups. Keep the probiotics going.

This always the first thing you should do regardless of new facts. And it solves 90 percent of the problems. I never use probotics so if you want to keep them going fine but if it was me they would be eliminated too till it is proven they are needed.

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:

MikeB wrote:If nothing else works to stop the diarrhea I think it is the WHEAT in the food. I have known dogs to have uncontrolable loose stools like your describing when eating any food with WHEAT of any kind. You could try Diamond Naturals Chicken/Rice adult food which has NO wheat or corn. It is worth a try.

And what is the difference between wheat and rice? Both are grain seeds with very very similiar qualities. Corn also I pretty much the same but does have more oil and protein in it. Doubt if it would be from any grain unless you have that one dog in bout amillion that could have an allergy to it.

Ezzy

Wheat is the worst gluten for celiac and villar atrophy dogs. Other than those disorders, though, it's usually not an issue. What gets me is when people go extra lengths to get a wheat free (usally along with corn and soy free) food, then toss a box of Milk Bone or Bil Jac biscuits in the cart.

Cajun Casey wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

MikeB wrote:If nothing else works to stop the diarrhea I think it is the WHEAT in the food. I have known dogs to have uncontrolable loose stools like your describing when eating any food with WHEAT of any kind. You could try Diamond Naturals Chicken/Rice adult food which has NO wheat or corn. It is worth a try.

And what is the difference between wheat and rice? Both are grain seeds with very very similiar qualities. Corn also I pretty much the same but does have more oil and protein in it. Doubt if it would be from any grain unless you have that one dog in bout amillion that could have an allergy to it.

Ezzy

Wheat is the worst gluten for celiac and villar atrophy dogs. Other than those disorders, though, it's usually not an issue. What gets me is when people go extra lengths to get a wheat free (usally along with corn and soy free) food, then toss a box of Milk Bone or Bil Jac biscuits in the cart.

I underswtand the gluten thing and you are right but it is so rare it is hardly worth mentioning. And you are right about other products as practically all feed has glutn unless it is a speciality food for just this problem.

Ezzy

Since the vet says he can't find anything and the dog appears to be healthy

I would try cutting food out completely for about 24 hours ,do a 5 day regime of Safeguard..then after 24 hours reintroduce a good food and start 1 cup the first day see if that starts any improvement
Slowly work to where the dog is maintaining weight every couple days adding 1/2 cup if you see a drop in weight happening pretty quick then add a little more food quicker. you may need to add extra for a day or so till weight comes back and then cut back by a little I AM SPEAKING of some VERY SUBTLE weight change some people can see it some people need to do a daily weight check
I know with the Loyall performance our pointers do well with 3 cups I know if we try their Professional it is to rich for them

Some times dogs can not do well on some super performance feeds and do better with a little more of a quality food that is a step down from the higher protein fat content


PS the reason I would cut food for 24 hours this give the intestines a break

Great stuff..I'm interested in hearing if anyone would recommend leaving the food down for a specific period of time, say 20 min, and then picking it up if dog has not eaten it all..I'm not an expert on probiotics, but while it is not a true probiotic, my dog's do great on Missing Link. I think K9, Ezzy and mcbosco are all offering good ideas that are somewhat similiar.

Ezzy, How I knew you would have a comment to my post.

I certainly respect your opinion, some times I agree and sometimes not. The fact is when you have been on the clean up end of a dog with pudding poop and it's in the house you quickly stop that food and find something else. Of all the many many dogs I have rescued, owned, breed and boarded for trained, some will have digestive issues with wheat based foods. When changed to a corn based food or no corn or wheat food instantly in 24 hrs we had firm stools. I have seen it first hand a few times. Many dogs can eat wheat and some just can not.

I certainly agree that over feeding can cause loose stools to include liquid poop. Been there, done it, and seen it, cleaned it up. Sometime you can free feed a dog and he won't over eat and do well and sometimes you must portion feed to control the digestive process. I am a huge advocate for digestive enzymes no matter what kind of dog you have. I stopped free feeding long ago so I can make sure each dog eats the proper amount.

Quailktail,
It sounds like you have a dog that can not eat 4 to 5 cups of what ever food caused the diarrhea. Cut back to maybe 3 cups and change food to NO wheat at least and see what happens. High fat foods can also cause an onset of diarrhea too. Some dog do well and others do not.

Hope you get your pointer back to normal soon.

I think I have my stool issue solved to an extent. I purchased a bag of Diamond Extreme Athlete feed. Started on it Christmas eve. About 2 cups per dog. Stool on the pointer I have had so much trouble with has improved. My young setter stool has improved as well. I am giving them probotics from GNC daily. One tablet each. My old dogs stools are good as well. My young setter has lost some weight through this stool problem as has the pointer. I feel as if I should be feeding more than 2 cups as they both still seem hungry. I hate to have something hungry, but will not increase the feed until a week or so to see how they do.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. Trying a different feed, short fasting, smaller volume, and enzymes and/or probiotics are all good advice, but you don't necessarily have to do all of it. There, Big Steve has spoken, so you know the advice several has given is factual!

Quailtail wrote:I think I have my stool issue solved to an extent. I purchased a bag of Diamond Extreme Athlete feed. Started on it Christmas eve. About 2 cups per dog. Stool on the pointer I have had so much trouble with has improved. My young setter stool has improved as well. I am giving them probotics from GNC daily. One tablet each. My old dogs stools are good as well. My young setter has lost some weight through this stool problem as has the pointer. I feel as if I should be feeding more than 2 cups as they both still seem hungry. I hate to have something hungry, but will not increase the feed until a week or so to see how they do.

If they are outside kennel dogs 2 cups per day during the winter if it is cold is going to get them more skinny. I hope you get the problem solved.

Mo

They are outside kenneled dogs. Sleeping in K9 Kondos with plenty of grass hay. I will watch them closley and decrease or increase feed accordingly. I had to do something as what they were eating appeared to go straight through them.

Once you get it under control start increasing the feed very slowly and I mean very slowly. You don't have to wait to start.

Ezzy

I had asked the OP this question before but didn't see a response. Do the dogs drink well water?

mcbosco wrote:I had asked the OP this question before but didn't see a response. Do the dogs drink well water?

Mine do does that make a difference?

They drink the same water I do from the water district. We do not have a well.

mcbosco wrote:I had asked the OP this question before but didn't see a response. Do the dogs drink well water?


Mine do does that make a difference?

I am curious about this too. What is the issue with well water? Curious since all in this household drink it.

Most all of the water we drink is well water or treated water taken from surface water lakes. I would guess he was going to make a comment that it might be contaminated. Many city people feel that way.

Ezzy

It has been my experience that whip worms and cocci can be very evasive to fecal test and are the usual culprits when chronic loose stools are present. I had dismal results using Albon for cocci, and have done the pumpkin, probiotics, and everything mentioned above, some dogs just seem to take longer to outgrow it in my kennel. I have heard on other forums that colloidal silver is useful for this problems. Thanks in advance.

ezzy333 wrote:Most all of the water we drink is well water or treated water taken from surface water lakes. I would guess he was going to make a comment that it might be contaminated. Many city people feel that way.

Ezzy

No. In fact Ezzy, I have a well and my whole town is well water. However, many farms and large properties near me do not treat every well and some wells are dug without a sanitary (above ground) well head. I have seen many wells on farms done in this manner and the water is often mildy unpotable and infected.

Ha, country boy. You thought you had me on that one.

mcbosco wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:Most all of the water we drink is well water or treated water taken from surface water lakes. I would guess he was going to make a comment that it might be contaminated. Many city people feel that way.

Ezzy

No. In fact Ezzy, I have a well and my whole town is well water. However, many farms and large properties near me do not treat every well and some wells are dug without a sanitary (above ground) well head. I have seen many wells on farms done in this manner and the water is often mildy unpotable and infected.

Ha, country boy. You thought you had me on that one.

Think that is what I said. You thought that the water might be contaminated.

Ezzy

But not because I am a city boy. Some utility wells are just not dug the right way because they were not intended to be used for drinking water and often animals drink that water.

Was not a crack on rural people.

mcbosco wrote:But not because I am a city boy. Some utility wells are just not dug the right way because they were not intended to be used for drinking water and often animals drink that water.

Was not a crack on rural people.

Didn't even think it was. But it is a rather remote chance when our dogs drink out of every mudpuddle, swamp, or wet land they get in.

Ezzy

@bossman I do see your point that we aren't DVMs. Loose stools aren't a dire problem. Every tip mentioned can help in some cases. If good husbandry can solve a problem without a vet that is really great thing IMO. If people care about their stock enough to participate here, they are probably smart enough to know when to get to the vet. There are some very experienced dog people in this forum and their knowledge is shared out of care for the dogs. While I am on this subject, does anyone know anything about for treating cocci?? I suspect that it is either whips or cocci that started this thread. With spring here, I am fighting a flare up of cocci in my dogs, and am looking into natural treatments.

INbeagles wrote:@bossman I do see your point that we aren't DVMs. Loose stools aren't a dire problem. Every tip mentioned can help in some cases. If good husbandry can solve a problem without a vet that is really great thing IMO. If people care about their stock enough to participate here, they are probably smart enough to know when to get to the vet. There are some very experienced dog people in this forum and their knowledge is shared out of care for the dogs. While I am on this subject, does anyone know anything about purest colloids for treating cocci?? I suspect that it is either whips or cocci that started this thread. With spring here, I am fighting a flare up of cocci in my dogs, and am looking into natural treatments.

If you are looking for a natural against coccidia/giaradia, have you looked at black walnut? I've used collodial silver successfully on external wounds, inflammation and eyes, but never as an internal treatment.

One natural approach to parasites that is worth doing because there are so many other benefits, the cost is low and it is safe, is using probiotics particularly Enterococcus faecium.