Wildrose - Horse wormer for dogs

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:39 am

Charlie,

You turned me on to using horse wormer awhile back and I love it. It works great and is VERY cost effective. I just thought I would post a link to some super pricing I found for the paste.

http://www.chicksaddlery.com/Merchant2/ ... _Code=4500

Thanks again!
R.

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:14 pm

I have used Ivermectin cattle and swine for heartworms monthly and horse wormer with Fenbendazole every other month in high dosage for other worms, for around 10 years. Is there something else that kills worms these other two do not??

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:16 pm

Trueblu,

I use the ivermectin paste monthly for everything except tapes. The Zimecterin Gold even gets those if needed. I can treat about 25 dogs with a tube that costs less than $3.00. That covers all worms, including heartworms. Heck of a lot cheaper than what I used to use. I just put a "click" on my finger and rub it on the roof of their mouth.

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:34 pm

Is a "click" a South Carolinian official unit of measure? Is it like "a fer piece" for distance, or "over yonder" for direction? I like it!! When you're headed to the store are you "fixin' to go"??

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:41 pm

Easy now, I'm a yankee!! I still haven't figured out all of the units of measure down here!!

a "CLICK" is a graduation on the tube. You turn a dial on the injector and move it back one "click". Every "click" dispenses a dose for 50lbs of animal. The entire tube holds enough medicine for a horse weighing 1250lbs. or 25 single doses for a 50lb. dog.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:43 pm

TrueBlu Shorthairs wrote:Is a "click" a South Carolinian official unit of measure? Is it like "a fer piece" for distance, or "over yonder" for direction? I like it!! When you're headed to the store are you "fixin' to go"??

Blu,

Your english has deteriorated since you moved to Texas. I know they didn't teach you that at JHS.

Coveyrise64

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:35 pm

Is this product what you are talking about?

Ivercare Ivermectin 1.87% Paste Sure-Grip Single Dose Oral Syringe #10768

It says that a full dose goes up to 1,500 lbs. Anything else I need to know i.e. storage, shelf life etc.?

Addition: I looked on the dog page and it appears that the dog version runs about 3 or 4 times as much. Any reason for that?

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:35 pm

Guy...

cause they can

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:38 pm

kninebirddog wrote:Guy...

cause they can

OK Arlette but can you answer the other questions? :roll:

NE Vizsla · Post by **NE Vizsla** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:37 pm

Has anyone seen any side effects to using this paste on dogs ? Would a Vet frown on it ?

Im just asking as this looks like something I would like to start with my dogs.

thanks.

RoundRiver Setters · Post by **RoundRiver Setters** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:21 pm

Same as with heartguard, you have to be careful with ivermectin in some herding breeds such as collies, shelties, aussies, and shepherds to I think.

That does not mean ALL will be sensitive to it, but are more prone to be.

I have not had any side effects in using it on my dogs, and one is a sheltie.

Will vets frown on usin the horse paste??..... :roll: what do you think???

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:Is this product what you are talking about?

Ivercare Ivermectin 1.87% Paste Sure-Grip Single Dose Oral Syringe #10768

Addition: I looked on the dog page and it appears that the dog version runs about 3 or 4 times as much.

Yes guy any of the ivermectin 1.87% will do, theres many different brands wherever you go.

where is this "dog page" you were talking about???? I only saw horse supplies on there.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:24 pm

Thanks Scott n Shelly,

http://www.1800petmeds.com/pselect.asp? ... art%20Plus

I was looking at Pet Meds site.

RoundRiver Setters · Post by **RoundRiver Setters** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:55 pm

You are welcome Guy

Petmeds,,okayyy, that explains the high dollar markup then lol

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:36 am

RoundRiver Setters wrote:Same as with heartguard, you have to be careful with ivermectin in some herding breeds such as collies, shelties, aussies, and shepherds to I think.

My understanding is that there is a very common genetic issue in the herding breeds, especially collies, that thins the blood-brain barrier.

I would just completely avoid ivermectin for those breeds.

Best, Greg J.

bh99 · Post by **bh99** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:28 am

I buy ivermectin from my vet. I told him I was going to use it for my dogs and he had no problem. He even dilutes to 1cc for 38lbs that way I can use it for my Jack Russells and GSP. Does anyone know what they use to dilute it? I could get it cheaper if I buy from TSC and dilute myself.

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:11 pm

Why dilute when you can just buy the 1% solution from TSC. That is what I do.

bh99 · Post by **bh99** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:22 pm

AHGSP wrote:Why dilute when you can just buy the 1% solution from TSC. That is what I do.

What is the dosage for 1%, I was thinking its 1/10cc per 10lbs of dog. So for my 15lb Jack's it'd be hard to measure half of 1/10cc

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:29 pm

RoundRiver Setters wrote:You are welcome Guy

Petmeds,,okayyy, that explains the high dollar markup then lol

S'nS',

What other source would you recommend for this stuff?

Thanks in advance

Guy

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:34 pm

bh99 wrote:
AHGSP wrote:Why dilute when you can just buy the 1% solution from TSC. That is what I do.
What is the dosage for 1%, I was thinking its 1/10cc per 10lbs of dog. So for my 15lb Jack's it'd be hard to measure half of 1/10cc

1/10th CC for every 10, or 20, lb.s Some use 1/10th to 10 lb.s and some 1/10th to 20 lb.s. Either is perfectly fine and acceptable. Get yourself a 1CC syringe. It is graduated in tenths and makes it easy to measure the smaller doses for your JRT.

bh99 · Post by **bh99** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:36 pm

http://www.valleyvet.com/ This is a good place for meds. I've bought dog shots from here with no problems. Is their a difference between cattle and swine ivermectin if they're both 1% ivermectin?

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:55 pm

No difference, but DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT use Ivomec Plus for Flukes. It will kill a dog from my understanding. Just get the plain old "Ivomec 1% Sterile Solution for Cattle and Swine". Also, this stuff is pretty thick and can be a slow process of drawing it up in the syringe. Draw it up and squirt it in the back of their mouth.

The paste might be a better solution though.

Speaking of the paste, How many use both the Ivomec Paste on a monthly basis and then the Fenbendazole every 6 months for the Hooks and such that the Ivomec doesn't kill?
Ross, You mention 1 click... is that for both? or do you only use the Ivomec?

I've been using the 1% solution by syringe every month for a long time and now also give the Fenbendazole(Safeguard) every 6 months. Now having horses, I'd like to just switch everything over to paste for ease and convenience.

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:27 pm

Bruce,

I only use the Ivermectin paste monthly. I am pretty sure that Charlie said he had been medicating this way for 10+ years. Maybe he'll chime in at some point. My dogs look good ...and so do my horses!

Post by **Az Draht** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:21 am

bh99 wrote: Does anyone know what they use to dilute it?

I have seen it being diluted with Propylene Glycol.

RoundRiver Setters · Post by **RoundRiver Setters** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:39 am

AZ Brittany Guy wrote: What other source would you recommend for this stuff?
Guy

Heres a few places I get my supplies from:

http://jefferspet.com/ssc/

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/?ref=4397 ... |914620521

http://www.petedge.com/home.jsp

http://www.revivalanimal.com/Default.as ... GgodtxG7Hw

http://www.kvvet.com/KVVet/assets/html/ ... URLCheck=1

http://www.medi-vet.com/

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:27 am

ivomec will get hookworms, and at the concentration you guys are talking about will get whipworms also, in my experience. we dilute it with propylene glycol to sell it, but it tastes awful, so the 0.1 cc per 10-20 on the tongue is probably alot less messy.

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:04 pm

I take 0.1 cc per 10 lbs and shoot it onto a piece of bread and give that to the dogs. Never seen one of the hounds refuse that yet.

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:30 pm

dog dr wrote:ivomec will get hookworms, and at the concentration you guys are talking about will get whipworms also, in my experience. we dilute it with propylene glycol to sell it, but it tastes awful, so the 0.1 cc per 10-20 on the tongue is probably alot less messy.

Is there anything the Ivomec at that dose may miss?

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:46 am

Bruce,

It doesn't get tapes. Hence, the Fenbendazole every 6 months or so.

Best, Greg J.

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:52 pm

Greg Jennings wrote:Bruce,

It doesn't get tapes. Hence, the Fenbendazole every 6 months or so.

Best, Greg J.

That is where I'm getting confused Greg. Fenbendazole takes care of one of the varieties of tapes of this I'm certain. I believe there is two common varieties of tapes. The second variety of tapes require, I believe, Pyrantel Pomoate? More confusing however is, that I had a client dog in last Summer that had Hooks and was on monthly Ivomec and unless I'm recalling wrong, my DVM told me to use the Fenbendazole for the hooks. I know for a fact the dog was on Ivomec at the .1cc to 10 lb.s, as the owner gave a dose right in front of me when they dropped him off. I noticed a bit of blood in the stool the 1st week and took him straight to the Vets, so this is a bit confusing that the dog had Hooks and my DVM knew he was on the Ivomec, yet "prescribed" the Fen.
Ideas?

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:15 pm

Keep in mind that I'm not a vet. But what I've read around is that the Ivermectin is not reliable for hooks, whips or tapes.

Since my dogs live in the house and I take them out to do their business, I can watch them like a hawk. I give the Ivermectin and give Safe Guard only rarely and only then as insurance.

Best, Greg J.

shags · Post by **shags** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:24 am

Can somebody check my math? What I'm getting is scary. I'm calculating based on a 50# dog just because that's convenient.

To get rid of tapes with praziquantel need 136mg/dose
To prevent heartworm with ivermectin need 136 mcg/dose

ivermectin gold is 1.55% ivermectin tube=7350mg 7350X .0155 = 144mg per tube or 144000mcg per tube

ivermectin gold is 7.75% praziquantel 7350mg X .0775 = 570mg per tube

So a tube of ivermectin gold would yield just about 4 doses of praziquantel for a 50 pound dog. 136mg X 4 = 544mg
But that dose would give 28500mcg of ivermectin which is roughly 210 times the amount needed for heartworm prevention. 128500 X 4 = 114000

Is that dose of ivermectin within safe limits? Dosing one click wouldn't seem to deliver enough praziquantel to be effective against the tapes.

Thanks to anyone who may be more mathematically inclined than I am.

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:32 am

shags wrote:Can somebody check my math? What I'm getting is scary. I'm calculating based on a 50# dog just because that's convenient.

To get rid of tapes with praziquantel need 136mg/dose
To prevent heartworm with ivermectin need 136 mcg/dose

ivermectin gold is 1.55% ivermectin tube=7350mg 7350X .0155 = 144mg per tube or 144000mcg per tube

ivermectin gold is 7.75% praziquantel 7350mg X .0775 = 570mg per tube

So a tube of ivermectin gold would yield just about 4 doses of praziquantel for a 50 pound dog. 136mg X 4 = 544mg
But that dose would give 28500mcg of ivermectin which is roughly 210 times the amount needed for heartworm prevention. 128500 X 4 = 114000

Is that dose of ivermectin within safe limits? Dosing one click wouldn't seem to deliver enough praziquantel to be effective against the tapes.

Thanks to anyone who may be more mathematically inclined than I am.

I wouldn't begin to go there. If you want to treat tapes, go to Fenbendazole or see your Vet. Technically, Ivomec is safe, even at elevated doses as it is designed to specifically attack invertebrates, but I'd say that is way more than just elevated. Maybe I'm reading wrong and without having the Gold in front of me to verify all the content percentages/doses, can't offer much help other than to say: I WOULDN'T! Especially if you think your math is even close to accurate.

kalel · Post by **kalel** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:04 pm

With the paste, how would you control the amount for a puppy? Or should I just let the vet overcharge me until the puppy is full grown?

Also, If I am going to do it myself, what vaccinations do I need to get , and what dose of dewormer for his first dose at home. Thank you

utahmomof4 · Post by **utahmomof4** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:08 pm

kalel wrote:With the paste, how would you control the amount for a puppy? Or should I just let the vet overcharge me until the puppy is full grown?

Also, If I am going to do it myself, what vaccinations do I need to get , and what dose of dewormer for his first dose at home. Thank you

I'm bumping this because I'm anxious to hear the answer to these questions as well.

Also, at what age is it safe to start using the ivermectin?

bh99 · Post by **bh99** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:07 am

When my GSP was a pup the vet started him on Heartguard at 8 weeks he would sell me a single does according to his weight at the time. I would "assume" you would does the ivermectin at the regular dose .1cc per 10lbs.

This is the shot I give pups.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html ... b0d0204ae5

For wormer I go to walmart it gives dosage on the bottle.

utahmomof4 · Post by **utahmomof4** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:41 am

Thank you, BH.

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:56 am

1st) I'M NOT A DVM!

Speaking only from experiences and understanding. I believe, that Heartguard can be administered to a pup WITHOUT a Heartworm Test, ONLY up until they are 6 mo.s of age. After 6 mo.s of age, they MUST have a Heartworm Test done before administering ANY Ivomec based product.

THIS IS IMPORTANT! Administering ANY Ivomec based product after that age WITHOUT a Heartworm Test could result in the death of the dog if it is in fact, Heartworm Positive.

The dose would remain the same as for adults, 1 tenth CC/.1 CC per 10 lb.s
Erring to the side of caution; 1 tenth CC/.1 CC per 20 lb.s

As for paste for a pup, I don't think you could make the "dollop" of paste small enough to confidently say you were within those dosages and would suggest using the 1% Solution instead. You can accurately pull up just 1, 2 or 3 tenths CC in a syringe for a 10-30 lb pup.

FOR DE-WORMER:
Go to your Vet and get a small bottle of "Strongid T" and dose at 1 ML per 10 lb.s of body weight at 4, 6 and 8 weeks.

VACCINATIONS:
These are subject to the area of the Country and would be best to talk to your DVM about. Typically, you want to Vac for Distemper-Hepatitis; Parainfluenza and Canine Parvovirus at a minimum. Coronavirus could be a consideration, depending on area of the country and Leptospirosis LATER based on age. Lepto is not recommended for pups for the most part, due to potential adverse reactions. The DHPP is the general minimum and probably most often given early Vacs.

utahmomof4 · Post by **utahmomof4** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:08 am

Thank you for that information, Bruce. I bought ivermectin 1.87%, but have not administered it, so I will get some of the 1% and use that instead. It's good to know about the 6 months old thing, too.

Our breeder uses the 7-way vaccination and he lives near us, so that's what we used, too.

bh99 · Post by **bh99** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:05 am

AHGSP - Thanks for adding the info about heartworm test. I forgot about it.
I know our Vet does a annual test before they'll sell ivermectin. I'm on the fence about having the test done cuz if the dog is on iver year round would it be possible for the dog to still get heartworms? If you only do the test once a year what's to say 2 months after the test the dog gets heartworms and you keep giving it iver.

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:41 am

Yes it is still possible for a dog to get hertworms while on Ivomec. I had a female about 5 years ago come down with heartworm and she was on it year round, as all my dogs are. We treated her for it and she came out of it but had damage to her heart and that was what got her as she got older. I believe she was 2 when we found it, and it was an annual that showed a failed test it. Still not sure how it happened, with her being on the medicine, possibly a bad batch of Ivomec, but it is possible.

Hope that helps,

Chip

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:11 pm

FYI
Tapesworms need not be a big concern if you are preventing their carriers. There are two ways I know of dogs can get them, and one is WAY more common. That is to have fleas. Fleas carry the tape eggs (?) and when the dog chews at the fleas and a flea chances to be consumed, it starts the cycle. The other is to eat the guts out of an animal with tapes, say a rabbit or maybe a fish (? maybe). This is rare, but can happen. I know my dogs love a nice dead animal when they find one

But have never gotten tapes from them.

But that said I have only had issues with tapes once is 8 years and it was a flea issue that for some reason my frontline did not prevent. Easy to treat gave a round of meds from the vet and reapplied new frontline. (I had been storing it outside in the feed room - maybe temp caused the issue) And they nearly always will show up like rice in the stool or little segments can be seen squiggling around the rectum. SO if your dog gets them you will know. I don't worry about them, but rather use flea/tick prevention to prevent the carriers.
SO I just use ivermectin 1% and alternate with interceptor from the vet. Of I am saving money I may give the ivermectin for 2 months, then interceptor. I like the idea that I am varrying the meds so that If I did have a bad batch or something, the dogs would not be totally unprotected all the time.

Gun Dog Forum

Wildrose - Horse wormer for dogs

Wildrose - Horse wormer for dogs

Math heads please advise!

Re: Math heads please advise!