Formula Change In Canidae Foods

RoundRiver Setters · Post by **RoundRiver Setters** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:02 pm

Came across this article on the dog food project website. Im not so sure, this is a change for the better. What do you guys think?

Shelley

Upcoming changes to Canidae formulations
Admin | June 30, 2008 3:56 pm
I wanted to give a heads up to dog owners feeding Canidae products about a few details that the makers of this product aren't telling you in their sales pitch for their changed formulas:

Under the new formulation, Canidae dry foods will no longer be gluten free, due to the addition of barley. If you know that your dog is gluten intolerant, start shopping around for a different food.

Even if your dog doesn't have problems with gluten (not all do, and many foods do contain high-gluten grains like barley), the change in formulation to include rice bran and peas may contribute to gas and digestive upset. Dogs who aren't particularly sensitive may not have any problems at all, others will get over it within a few days of transitioning, but again, for individuals with a delicate digestive system, expect that they may no longer tolerate the product.

Millet is generally well tolerated, but again, it doesn't work for every dog.

"Diversifying" ingredients may sound catchy, and Canidae certainly has made an effort to put a positive spin on it in their statement, but please remember that not all dogs do well on foods that include a wide variety of items.

Also note that "Herring Meal" will be replaced by generic "Ocean Fish Meal", meaning the company reserves the possibility to use different fish from batch to batch without having to change the ingredient list. This has not been addressed in their statement at all.

Whether these changes are indeed an improvement, as Canidae claims, is for you to decide - after observing how it affects your dog.

http://canidae.com/new-formulas.html

eastwash · Post by **eastwash** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:48 am

Is this formula out now? About a week ago I started feeding a new bag, I thought the kibble looked different and Jake had pretty bad diarrhea for several days. Seems to have adjusted now though some stools are a little loose. This and the $7.00 a bag increase last month isn't cementing me as a loyal Canidae customer.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:09 am

That first report does not look like an official Canidae document to me. I think I would contact the company before I would even accept that this is true. There are just too many crackpots on the net anymore for me to have much faith in them.

The changes mentioned do look pretty minor as they would be changes to the minor ingredients and it wouldn't concern me unless you actually see a difference in your dog and then if you do wait a few days till they adjust. Despite all of the hoopla from a few people dogs to not commonly have many problems with their feed if it is being handled properly.

I still don't understand why someone would put out something like this before it even happens or if it happens.

Ezzy

eastwash · Post by **eastwash** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:14 am

The link to their site in the first post confirms the change unless i am reading this wrong.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:21 am

You are right. I hadn't noticed the link. They do a pretty good job of explaning the differences and though I haven't had experience with all of the changes the ones I am familiar with I agree with.

Ezzy

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:33 am

Eastwash,

Does the bag you bought show the new ingredients on the bag? If so you probably have the new formula.

eastwash · Post by **eastwash** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:40 am

I am going to check it out tonight.

RoundRiver Setters · Post by **RoundRiver Setters** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:43 am

I havent bought a bag since the change...but if its gone up in price that much, I probably wont be either. I think the way dog food prices are going up...alot of people may be forced to change what they are feeding, especially if you have alot of mugs to feed.

eastwash · Post by **eastwash** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:00 pm

At the feed store I buy from it went from 32.99 to 39.99. And this was before the hugh gas spike so who knows where it all will go. I am starting to look at other brands that appear to be more economical.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:57 pm

With all the prices going up I have been expected Canidae to change the All Life Stage to the 33 lb bag size like the other formulas are.

BUT... I noticed on their new web site for the new formula... http://canidae.com/new-formulas.html
The All Life Stage formula will be produced in 5 lbs, 15 lbs, 35 lbs, 44 lb bags. So the new 35 and 44's will certainly change the price. The Chicken only, Lamb only, and Platinum formulas will be in 5, 15 & 30 lbs bags.

Interesting.

eastwash · Post by **eastwash** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:15 pm

Checked the bag it was still the old stuff in the 40# bags. The kibble between the last bag and the one i opened did appear different when i compared them maybe just a run variance, or in Jake's case a runs variance.

Mike50 · Post by **Mike50** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:29 pm

I picked up 2 bags a week ago. The runny stools started the next day. I thought the kibble looked darker in color. Could it be they were using up bags in the 40# size that were already made up? I hate to start looking for a new brand to try. Both my dog were feed this from the time they came home. Never had an issue with stools.

Chaingang · Post by **Chaingang** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:45 pm

Mike50 wrote:I picked up 2 bags a week ago. The runny stools started the next day. I thought the kibble looked darker in color. Could it be they were using up bags in the 40# size that were already made up? I hate to start looking for a new brand to try. Both my dog were feed this from the time they came home. Never had an issue with stools.

Go to the link. If you scroll down a bit it talks about color and switching over to the new formula. I doubt very much they would put the new feed in original formula bags.

http://www.canidae.com/new-formulas.html

Other than that, I would contact them and let them know that you had issues with couple bags recently purchased.

monksmom · Post by **monksmom** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:55 pm

eastwash wrote:Is this formula out now? About a week ago I started feeding a new bag, I thought the kibble looked different and Jake had pretty bad diarrhea for several days. Seems to have adjusted now though some stools are a little loose. This and the $7.00 a bag increase last month isn't cementing me as a loyal Canidae customer.

Speaking of cement, I saw a bag whose label read "montmorillinite" as an ingredient (I don't remember the name of the food). Montmorillonite is basically clay. Interesting.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:16 pm

It is a mineralcompound that fitsinto the clay catagory. It has been used for yearsas a binding agent in pelleted feeds and sometimes as a dusting agent in high fat or high molasses feeds to keep them from sticking to each other. As far as nutitional properties it does seem to have some qualities like bi-carbonate of soda in the gut and soothes an animal with a sensitive stomach. If it used it is in very small quanitysuch as possibly 50 lbs to the ton or less. The main advantage is physicalbut sometimes t is used as a stomach conditioner. It normally would be listed as Bentonite .

Ezzy

monksmom · Post by **monksmom** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:06 am

In this case, montmorillonite, the clay, similar to bentonite, was the second ingredient on the list...

monksmom · Post by **monksmom** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:09 am

I should add that I hadn't really been all that happy with Canidae...lots of stool, seemed to go through him quickly and I noticed large grains in his stool. I have since switched my dog over to eagle Pack holistic Duck and Oatmeal and his stool is firmer and smaller, it doesn't seem to run through him, and his eyes are less red/itchy. He also gets oa topper of 100% salmon meat or green tripe.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:36 am

monksmom wrote:In this case, montmorillonite, the clay, similar to bentonite, was the second ingredient on the list...

You must have misread the ingredients some how as you couldn't even process a material that was that much mineral. Our equipment would be plugged with in 5 seconds of turning it on. The only way you can process that material is to add water and I mean lots of water to make it a muddy looking slurry. Plus I don't think a dog could even eat it let alone thrive. It would be my guess a dog would be dead within a week with a feed like that if you could force it to eat. It would be the same priciple as you buying milk that was 30% cement. Would be a problem getting it down and then you would never be able to pass it.

I have no experience with Canidae but have always heard it was a good feed and a good company. I'd sure hate to have to go through your feeding routine since you switched with a kennel full of dogs. Just glad mine do pretty well on anything I feed and have over the years.

Ezzy

Mike50 · Post by **Mike50** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:17 pm

I'm not their biggest customer only about 2 40# a month. Why the switch in the formula? Sorry for the post but if it works and sells why change? If they ed keep it the same I wouldn't have to change companies.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:55 pm

There are many reasons to change a formula. Most common is one of the ingredients has become unavailable or possibly in short supply which raises the cost signifiently. Many times new ingredients hit the market and allows you to make a better feed as cheap as you were before. I am guessing but probably everyone is looking for a way to lower the wheat and corn content to keep the price down. If they did then they have to raise the protien from some other source to make up for using a lower quality grain. Also new and better equipment allows them to use different ingredients that are better but couldn't be used before. And of course shipping is a big big problem for many companies. If they are made some place that doesn't have the ingredients close to their plant they may have to change. Another reason is that the ingredient content changes from year to year depending on the base quality of the grain or animals available to the ingredient manufacturer.

These are a few of the reasons.

Ezzy

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:26 am

I have switched off Canidae to Innova Adult. A feed store near me no longer has any "old" stock left and is waiting on the new stuff. He explained that a lot of Canidae customers will no longer be buying the food. He said it has to do with Diamond mfg all dry food now. I don't know. I just felt the need to change for personal reasons.

He did say that he has a bunch of new 35lb bags coming in but the price is $45. He said he tried to order the 44lb bags but hasn't been able to get a price yet. But now he's thinking what's the point if he already has at least 50 customers claiming they will no longer buy it. That's crazy.

The ingredients aren't the thing that seems to sway everyone, its Diamond. Even though Diamond claims to have state of the art quality controls in place I guess people are uneasy. The owner of the store did say that he is unhappy with the change and saw a spike in Innova and California Natural sales at his store (sold out) because of the Canidae talk...

i know Innova aint cheap but its the food i'm going to give my dog now.

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:30 am

eastwash wrote:Checked the bag it was still the old stuff in the 40# bags. The kibble between the last bag and the one i opened did appear different when i compared them maybe just a run variance, or in Jake's case a runs variance.

the feed store told me the "new" All Life Stages is starting to ship this week so...

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:39 am

This sounds a little fishy since there are many many people buying Diamond made foods. They are one of the largest companies and make a quality feed that is one of the major sellers at least here in the mid-west.

Ezzy

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:55 am

i have fed Canidae since I got my dog so i never really knew what happened with the whole Diamond thing. But since they are now manufacturing Canidae dry foods I guess some people are uneasy about it. I personally am not bothered by it.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:06 am

As usual, Ezzy is correct. Some people like to look down their noses at Diamond so they can justify their believing the hype from other companies who sell more expensive feed.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:12 am

For your infoDiamond had a recall several years ago of some feed that was made in one of their plants out east that contained some corn that had aflotoxin in it. Aflotoxin is pretty deadly to horses and dogs but they handled the recall well and provided for anyone that had a problem with their feeds. This is something that happens to every company sooner or later if they have been in business for a while. Thankfully we have a system that makes it possible to trace the feed and the customers in this country so most recalls take care of the problem before it gets terribly widespread and serious.

Ezzy

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:53 am

hmmm, that's interesting, i guess people are "clouded" about this change. i personally changed because i always wanted to try Innova for my dog and its readily available in my town (4 stores carry it). I have other "personal" feelings for the change but its not due to Canidae outsourcing to Diamond.

gwgdog66 · Post by **gwgdog66** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:46 am

eastwash wrote:Checked the bag it was still the old stuff in the 40# bags. The kibble between the last bag and the one i opened did appear different when i compared them maybe just a run variance, or in Jake's case a runs variance.

The "runs" started with my two this week, after I bought two 20lb bags (old formula) because they were out of the 40lb bags.

eastwash · Post by **eastwash** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:03 pm

As I am just about out of the old formula i called the co-op where I buy Canidae, their 35# bags of the new formula cost the same as the last price I paid for the 40# bags. 38% increase since i started using it in March.
What is this about being manufactured by Diamond?
Anyone feeding this new formula? If so what do you think?
Anyone abandon Canidae and if so what are you using now?

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:38 pm

About a month ago I switched from Canidae to the Diamond Naturals Chicken/Rice. I bought 2 40's and it will be a while till I am ready to try the new Canidae formula. I will try it since I have been feeding it for 12 years jus to see what I think.

I have seen no difference in my dog since on the Diamond Naturals thought and it was $27.99 for 40#. A real savings from the $34.99 I was paying.

I just called my local pet store that sells a lot of CANIDAE and he said the sales rep was in and put stickers on all the 15# & 35# bags that say "New and Improved Formula". Their 35# bag is selling for $36 and the 44# will sell for $40 when they get them.

If all else fails I can feed the Kirkland Chicken/rice from Costco. It is always a great price for a very good food. My dog did well on it too about a year ago when I tested it.

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:30 am

MikeB wrote:About a month ago I switched from Canidae to the Diamond Naturals Chicken/Rice. I bought 2 40's and it will be a while till I am ready to try the new Canidae formula. I will try it since I have been feeding it for 12 years jus to see what I think.

I have seen no difference in my dog since on the Diamond Naturals thought and it was $27.99 for 40#. A real savings from the $34.99 I was paying.

I just called my local pet store that sells a lot of CANIDAE and he said the sales rep was in and put stickers on all the 15# & 35# bags that say "New and Improved Formula". Their 35# bag is selling for $36 and the 44# will sell for $40 when they get them.

If all else fails I can feed the Kirkland Chicken/rice from Costco. It is always a great price for a very good food. My dog did well on it too about a year ago when I tested it.

wow, prices around me for 35# is $44 and the 44# is selling for $52ish. And yes they also have stickers put on the bags saying "New and Improved". They just did this yesterday I was told from the local feed store near me.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:01 pm

In these changing economic times many of the Canidae using pet owners are going to change brands with those kind of prices. I thought prices were high here in So. California. So where do you live?

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:07 pm

People using Canidae should feel better about it if Diamond is making it. I don't see much difference in the Diamond Premium and Diamond Natural, except the Natural is much more expensive. I pay about $23 tax included for 50 lbs of Premium at my feed store. We could talk about price per lb., but Greg doesn't like that.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:16 pm

I just got home from buying dog food. Paid 30.31 for 50# bags of Diamond Premium.

I think we all enjoyed price per pound the first 100 times or so but then it began to sound like something we had heard before.:roll:

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:37 pm

It was only 47 times, so there!! The last time in my feedstore which was about 3 weeks ago, he said Premium was gonna take a 2-3 dollar jump. I guess I'll find out soon!

:roll:

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:53 pm

The higher cost is because of the ingredient difference in the two formulas. I prefer the Natural C/R formula for many reasons.

The Natural Chicken Rice ingredients are.... Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, white rice, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), oatmeal, beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, (only the protein and grains listed).

The Premium ingredients are.... Chicken by-product meal, whole grain ground corn, wheat flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), brewers rice, beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:01 pm

The Natural is not any more natural than the Premium. The Natural does not have corn and wheat in it, which can be an advantage for a small percentage of dogs. There may be some better chicken source in the Natural also. However, most dogs do very well on the Premium , and you are reaching a point of diminishing return by spending more money on formulas that are not appreciably better. But, different strokes for different folks!

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:59 pm

Steve, I agree with you completely. I have only 1 dog now, not a hunting dog as I am not a hunter and never have been. I have a standard not to feed any food with Corn, Wheat, or Soy. I think chicken by products are fine and have fed food with chicken meal and by-products but I just won't feed certain grains. My dogs have been much healthier since I stopped feeding those grains since 1992. Say what you want.... it's your opinion but I will pay a little more money for what works for me.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:25 pm

Mike, I agree with whatever works for you. I just like people to be honestly informed, rather than reading product hype, and then everyone should choose what works best for them. There are several good brands that are comparable to each other.

gwgdog66 · Post by **gwgdog66** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:26 pm

TheShadow wrote:
MikeB wrote:About a month ago I switched from Canidae to the Diamond Naturals Chicken/Rice. I bought 2 40's and it will be a while till I am ready to try the new Canidae formula. I will try it since I have been feeding it for 12 years jus to see what I think.

I'll probably buy one more bag of Canidae ALS to get my "free one" on the frequent buyers program. After that I'm swiching to diamond Naturals Chicken & rice. I've used the Diamond Naturals in the past and was very pleased with it.

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:34 am

If anyone is interested Canidae has 3 new products that might be available next week. Even though I've switched already they don't interest me. An ALS Grain Free & Salmon Grain Free. Also a new flavor Beef & Ocean Fish. A store I stopped by told me that this will hopefully gain a lot of customers who dropped Canidae back. Price for grain free foods are going to be expensive in the $50-60 range for 30lb bag is what she speculates. And she hopes people can overlook that Diamond is manufacturing it as it seems to be a huge problem. Its amazing that for this store her #3 seller is Orijen which is a food that is out of my budget. What pet dog owners will do for their dogs!

rstbkt69 · Post by **rstbkt69** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:21 am

I switched over to Canidae a couple of months ago and was previously feeding diamond premium. The only difference besides price that i see is the paint peeling gas has decreased to near nothing. With 3 dogs maybe having to put up with it for one time a day instead of 2 times a hour. We have 4 but one was off to the trainer during the switch.
I really didn't get a chance to try the old formula ,I don't think, and I didn't notice an increase in the amount of stool over the diamond. The Canidae stool seems lighter though. So did I get a couple of bags of the old formula. The bag isn't marked new or anything. It works for them what ever formula it is. Our 3 month old GSP had a few skin problems that cleared up really fast when we brought him home. So any way how do I tell If I have the new formula?

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:42 am

I would question your dealer if he has taken delivery of the new formula. Chances are you bought the last of the old formula. New bags are out now in 35# and 44 #. I suspect the dog you sent to the trainer and came back with the ear junk was due to the food change. Now the question is if you buy the new formula if there will be any change. Many don't see a change, some do. You just have to feed the new and find out. The new bags have the new formula on them.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:57 pm

MikeB, How is your gas problem if you had any with the Diamond Natural as opposed to the Premium? My dogs don't come into the house so I don't worry about it. However, excessive gas may indicate poor assimilation especially of the carbos such as grains, and it may decrease the cost-effectiveness of the feed. I have one Llewellin and one small yard dog and as I said neither come into the house. Right now, I am feeding Diamond L&R for a change of pace, and they like it.

rstbkt69 · Post by **rstbkt69** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:18 pm

Their gas is near non existant. We went from the house smelling like a giant dog fart storage area to just our regular smell. And if they do let one sneak out is is not nearly as bad. The previous occurences even ran the dog out of the room. Most of the time they would high tail it out of there before we even caught a whiff of it.
Jim

Oops sorry. I thought the gas question was directed at me since I actually changed foods because of this. Sorry guys

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:24 pm

Sorry rst, it should have been directed to you. i was interested in which Diamond you were feeding before.

rstbkt69 · Post by **rstbkt69** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:18 am

Premium adult. I thought they were doing pretty well and had started the 3rd bag and 2 days into that bag the gas started and eventualy got worse and went on for weeks. A gradual shift to canidae slowed it down till a total switch was done. What a relief.
I was never given an answer from diamond if they changed the formula or what they though may have caused it but they suggested useing one of the naturals and sent me a cupon. I havn't tried it yet. Canidae is working fine for now. I just got one of the dogs back from the trainer and She was being fed Pro Plan. I hope I can keep on Canidae for a while. I'd hate to change her food again.
Jim

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:59 am

As I mentioned before, I have fed Diamond Premium for many years to my Llewellin, and until December to my large German Shepherd, but I had to put the Shepherd down. Now, we have a small yard dog. Therefore, we don't feed as much volume. My Llewellin is being treated for low thyroid, and is improving. His energy was down and has some hair loss. Of course, he was 11 in May. I have been feeding a bag of Diamond L&R, and he likes it. I may try a bag of Diamond Chicken and Rice as it appears to have an ideal list of ingredients. I like Chicken and chicken meal as the first two ingredients. I don't mind paying more for a slightly better product if I think my dog may benefit from it. I believe it will still be less than Canidae and just as good.

rstbkt69 · Post by **rstbkt69** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:44 pm

We have a 14 yr old that we are getting worried about. she doesn't get much to eat because she is so fat and she keeps chaseing the other dogs away from their food or eating what the GSP don't eat right away. They both eat about half at feeding and the rest about 30 minutes later. She is smart and only does it when we are not watching. as soon as we get involved in something else she sneeks over and eats it. shes healthy as a horse but getting way too big.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:11 pm

It goes without saying almost that your solution is separating the dogs during feeding time. You don't want to decrease the quality or quantity of the feed and adversely affect the other dogs.