Muscle/body Sore Dog

[jetto]

We've got a vet appt for this afternoon but not sure they can really do anything except prescribe something like Rimaydl. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

On Sunday hubby lost our Irish Setter while training. He was gone for 3 hours. We won't go into the whole Tracker collar conversation here- suffice to say it wasn't where it should have been.

So dog was gone for 3 hours- pretty obviously running most of this time- most likely on deer. People found him a couple miles away- he just showed up in their yard and thankfully they called the number on the collar.

Got him home- he was sunken eyed, pretty shaky on his feet, down a good 6 or 7 pounds at least and he had no real body fat to spare, matted, burred, looked like he'd maybe been in the water somewhere- partially frozen coat, etc. Husband didn't look much better but I got some satisfaction out of the haggard look on HIS face.

We checked him all over- no road rash, no swelling, nothing obviously broken. Really in decent shape considering what might have happened. Appetite was fine. Gave him some electrolytes and carbo-gain. Appetite is still good. Spirits are fine. Body is SORE. He's always been structurally very sound. He's having trouble getting up and down from a laying postition and the pain seems to rotate all over. Sometimes looks worse in his rear. Sometimes looks like his shoulders/neck might be bothering him more. Comes and goes but always apparent he's not quite right.

Is this just something time will need to heal? We've lost them before and had them come back sore- just wondering if anyone had any suggestions.

[Benny]

Your dog lost 6 or 7 pounds in 3 hours? Holy crap! Is the vet going to run xrays?

[Sharon]

Wow. My dogs often go for 3 hours with no obvious problems. They need to rest the next day but that is normal.

[ezzy333]

That one is hard to understand. Just doesn't seem possible to me that a dog can come close to losing 10% of its body weight in 3 hours. Thats like us losing 15 to 25 lbs depending on our starting weight. That would be enough by it self to kill us or the dog I woul think.

Ezzy

[WildRose]

The dog is just in all likelihood sore and dehydrated. Give the dog 24 hours rest with lots of water and normal feed and he'll probably be fine. If you want to treat the soreness an ascripton twice daily for a day or two will work wonders. Some vitamin C will with the soreness as well since most of it is likely due to lactic acid build up from overexertion.

[jetto]

Maybe it was only 3-4 pounds that he lost in that time frame but the weight loss was noticeable when he came home-he looked absolutely gaunt....And we are talking about a BENCH BRED Irish Setter here- not a little red setter...this dog stands almost 28" at the shoulder and usually goes close to 70 pounds- he was probably a little lighter than that to begin with from trialing 4 days last week- i'm not sure- he's not been weighed in a long time...he's probably sitting at 62 maybe 64 right now....I'm used to him losing a little weight over a trial weekend- that is normal for all of our dogs actually....but to notice it within hours was shocking to me....

Our conditioning program doesn't account for 3 hours of deer chasing. The dog is not used to that- nor does he have to be. We run at the most- an hour stake on occasion- and this dog has only done that once. Most of the time is 30 minute stakes and we actually condition for 45 minutes. If we conditioned for 3 hour deer chases we'd both have to quit our jobs.

Thank you wildrose for the vitamin c suggestion- that is what i was looking for...something to help replenish him besides what we've been trying.....and vitamin c makes sense....i have that on hand but have never used it for that purpose- can give to him tonight....Kristi

[dmadis8]

Hows your dog doing after the vitamin c?

[jetto]

We ended up taking him to the vets last night. I had checked the daily supplement he gets and it already was giving him the Vitamin C so when he wasn't any better- hubby took him in.

so he's on muscle relaxers and tramidol....this morning he was still hobbling badly but this afternoon at lunch it appeared he was feeling better- at least he was roo-rooing at me and moving free'r....

Vet pretty much confirmed what it appeared Sunday night. He must have taken a fall on one side- the muscles on that side of his body were much tenser than on the other. But nothing broke and not much to do except for time and hopefully the muscle relaxers, etc. will help.

And the vet agreed he couldn't have lost that much weight- so you can all pat yourselves on the back there and put it off to a concerned owner which I am....he lost weight but no way to know how much- we didn't weigh him before he went running...he was at 68 pounds last night and that was with me feeding him good sunday, monday and yesterday....I went back through his vet records and show weight for him is right around 76 pounds....

Thank you for asking by the way....he's a good dog- a solid honest gun dog that loves birds- but apparently forgets all about them when deer appear....Kristi

[birddog1968]

sounds like he might have got hit by a car maybe????

sunken eyes and one side tense and lactic acid build up. Just a thought.

Hope he's feeling better soon. Might want to get him broke off running deer tho. Too many bad things can happen running deer, hit by car, shot by angry landowner.......

I just had a young pointer deer broke, wasnt fun for him I'm sure but it worked.

Good luck to your pup.

[jetto]

Thank you....We looked for road rash/contussions and couldn't find any- but anything is possible...

We'd like to nail him when he's running deer but just haven't had the opportunity. For one thing- he's quiet about it. Friends of ours with Irish who run deer say they BAY or at least yip and bark when they are on deer. If he would do that we'd know but he's quiet about it. And this time Carl didn't even see the deer- he suspects when Flynn went through a cut the deer popped and they were gone by the time Carl slogged across there. This isn't a dog that is a run-off at trials so for him to just up and disappear like that- knowing there were going to be birds out for him- had to be deer.

But yes it's definitely something we have to try to set him up for....Always something. Kristi

[birddog1968]

I got ya....

Might sound kinda harsh but it works.

We have an old school bird dog trainer in my neck of the woods...He has an old school method of breaking them
from running deer. Again sounds harsh but it works quick. He has a plastic drum hooked up to an electric motor.
Dog goes in , Deer hide goes in , set of dulled antlers go in and the motor gets turned on. They come out staggering
like a drunk but wont chase deer anymore. Least ways its worked on my dog.

I think it is harsh too but better than the alternative of finding or not finding him dead somewhere.

[jetto]

I've heard of similar methods....Might be something we have to look at if we don't get the chance to light him up when he comes across them!

Kristi

[WildRose]

I got ya....

Might sound kinda harsh but it works.

We have an old school bird dog trainer in my neck of the woods...He has an old school method of breaking them
from running deer. Again sounds harsh but it works quick. He has a plastic drum hooked up to an electric motor.
Dog goes in , Deer hide goes in , set of dulled antlers go in and the motor gets turned on. They come out staggering
like a drunk but wont chase deer anymore. Least ways its worked on my dog.

I think it is harsh too but better than the alternative of finding or not finding him dead somewhere.

In the modern era of dog training that is absolutely not necessary and it's a lot closer to outright abuse of an aminal than it is training. This rates right up there with busting a dog in the butt with a shotgun for running up birds!

Put a collar on the dog and take him into some places he's likely to encounter deer. When you bust them and he chases hit him hard with the collar without a word.

If you can't arrange that, use a deer hide, hide it, work the dog to it, and when he turns on it to investigate him him with the collar hard.

This is very similar to how we snake break dogs and would be far more effective and far less abusive.

[birddog1968]

I agree its old school but abuse, not hardly. Done in under 5 minutes period.

This was done on a dog what you cant put a collar on. He is so soft you would ruin this dog with a collar. Someone almost did.

From my perspective this is nothing like shooting a dog for busting birds....thats a whole other ball game there.

I have a lab went thru the collar breaking on deer....he would run squalling as he chased and as you ramped up the juice.....
He was a hard head on deer and could take all the pain you could throw at him. Age finally taught him deer were not what we
were after. to continue with that exercise in futility would have been abusive.

How is that anymore abusive than a couple minutes rolling in a barrel ?

Found with the lab is was better to break him to the whistle and that once the whiste was deeply engrained that a trill would slow him
down enough to get him to break off the chase.

[Sharon]

Dog is rolling in a barrel with a set of antlers? This was "better then an e-collar because the dog was soft." ? Not my dog. Abuse.

[birddog1968]

We'll just have to agree to disagree....

This is a method from a well known trainer with national titles. If you saw it you wouldnt say its abuse.
Ruining a dog with a collar , not that would be more like abuse...and a waste.

Would it be better to ruin a dog, have him hit by a car , shot by a angry landowner or in a fight with a deer that could kill him?
Couple minutes with the barrel seems much more humane to me. Antlers are all dulled and no way they can hurt the dog. Would it be
abuse if only a hide was in there, or is putting the dog in the barrel the abuse part????

Here is the dog in question, does he look abused? He is laying right by my feet now and hates to leave my side. abused I think not.

[WildRose]

Here is the dog in question, does he look abused?

If he was thrown in a tumbler full of antlers and deer hide then tumbled like a load of cement by a "dog trainer" then yes he looks like an abused dog.

Ruining a dog with a collar , not that would be more like abuse...and a waste.

Any "professional trainer" that can't trash break even the softest of dogs with the proper use of a modern e collar isn't much of a professional. Modern collars have such pinpoint adjustment variablility you need never give a dog a milliwatt more than they need to get the job done.

There are better ways to do it in the modern era. CR

[remmy]

Your dog lost 6 or 7 pounds in 3 hours? Holy crap! Is the vet going to run xrays?

I was thinking the same thing.

[Scott Linden]

The dog is just in all likelihood sore and dehydrated. Give the dog 24 hours rest with lots of water and normal feed and he'll probably be fine. If you want to treat the soreness an ascripton twice daily for a day or two will work wonders. Some vitamin C will with the soreness as well since most of it is likely due to lactic acid build up from overexertion.

Hey WildRose - what is ascripton? Thanks.

[Fireside]

what is ascripton? Thanks.

Buffered asprin