Puppy Hip Question

[MoHops]

I got my first EP pup which is now eight weeks old. Took him to the vet for his puppy check up and shots. The vet was cycling his rear legs and didn't like the way the hip joints felt to him. He wants to wait a few more weeks to see if some more muscle development on the rear legs helps with the problem. Is this something to be super concerned with or just wait and see if the dog grows out of it. By the way the history of the dog is I got it from someone on Craigslist for basically free. So no papers, registration, etc. Both parents were present and are both hunted over. Any thoughts? (Other than I should've bought from a breeder with good lines. I'm a poor man just trying to get started in upland hunting)

[Brittguy]

If the vet is correct and a problem is noticable at 8 weeks, I would be super concerned if I were in this situtation.

[postoakshorthairs]

I don't think anyone would blame you for getting a dog for free in this economy. I've hunted over some very nice unregistered dogs in my day. The trouble with these kind of situations is you get attached to the dog and then if there's issues it's hard to let them go. Hopefully your vets wrong and your pup will grow out of it but it doesn't sound good.

[ezzy333]

The other side is that it is next to impossible to tell much about the hips at that age so I would hope everything is ok. But it is something that could develop into a problem. At this time don't get too concerned but do be aware.

Ezzy

[phermes1]

Big question - IF the vet is correct.

I agree with Ezzy. Be aware, get the dog's hips OFA'd when he's 2, but don't lose a lot of sleep over it until the dog has matured and you've gotten an opinion from a qualified vet.

[kninebirddog]

Go back and have some x rays done after the pup is about 7 months old

at this point there is still some growing going on

i was talking with a vet in texas that does a sugery on pups before 12 weeks of age...but last year I decided to take some x rays on some very young pups...both my vet and I were not impressed with what we say
took them back in months later what looked strange at before 12 weeks of age looked pretty nice after 6 months of age final determination will be when they turn two and we get the OFA certs on then

I can send in for a prelim rating but would be nice just to have money to spend....

So though the pup may be loose ...but until the hips grow i would hold off and after what i viewed with the pups i did xrays on ..again i would wait till after 6 month of age and then you can get a better idea and send them into OFA they will pre lim them if there is still a problem

[ezzy333]

What do you gain by spending money for an x-ray before they are two years old. Its just another way to increase the wealth of your vet. since they either are or aren't and there is nothing you can do about it anyway. I wouldn't even x-ray a non-registered dog that won't be bred till it has a noticeable problem. This is a whole different ballgame than OFA'ing breeding stock.

Ezzy

[MoHops]

Thanks for the replies. Being my first bird dog, I was a little paranoid about it at first. And I agree he's a young guy and has really taken off growth wise in the last week or so. I can hope for the best and see how it looks down the road. There haven't been any signs of pain or discomfort and he gets along pretty well so I'll keep my fingers crossed. Thanks for the input.

Ryan

[vzkennels]

I think the one positive thing is HD in pointers is not very common but is always a possibility.

[kninebirddog]

ezzy what is gained by finding out when you can if someone has an issue why wait 2 years before finding out there is a problem..for me they go on to family companion and are taken out of the gene pool with full disclosure or back to the breeder if they take them back...i have my charity case dogs already which i do stuff with but i can ill afford filling my spots with dogs that do not make the cut for my breeding program.

for the average family home that has bought their first dog they become attached and a dog that has the issue they can begin some type of program and help keep the dog as pain free as possible and things to watch for until the dog requires some medical intervention Mikey went till 7 before I had the femoral head oscetomies done with him he is almost 12 and still thinks he is a pup
things like glucosamine some type of exercises to help keep the joints going they do help also feeding different feeds to help keep things in check like weight

so yes even the breeder needs to know IF the pup does have an issue ...so no you don't have to wait till 2 before finding out

and pointers have more HD then people will admit to most just say ah just has a little hitch in the get along when they get about 7 years old been run hard got a setter here that has HD but the guy refuses to admit it just says she is old and it is arthritis in her hip I have tried to explain to him that is extreme HD but he doesn't believe setters get Hip Dysplsia ....

anyways

so those are the direct benefits to finding out sooner then later if there is a QUESTION

[Fireside]

It sounds like what the vet was saying to you was that he thought the hip joints were a little lax. I cant lay my hands on the reference book on HD, but as I recall the hip joint/ femoral head is still undergoing serious development at that age... not to mention what the muscles are doing.
If the pup has been kept in a more confined situation, it would only make sense that his muscles are under-developed. This doesnt man take him out and run the pud outta him, let him have a sensible amount of exercise for his age and dont let him get overweight.
HD can ONLY be diagnosed by x-raying the dog. Palpation, gait, sleeping position, lameness (or lack therof) DOES NOT prove a darn thing.
Give this pup a chance to grow up and develop and see what the x-rays look like at 7-8 months if you still think there might be an issue. I would not get excited over one vet's (of unknown qualifications) concerns with an 8 week old puppy.

[ezzy333]

ezzy what is gained by finding out when you can if someone has an issue why wait 2 years before finding out there is a problem..for me they go on to family companion and are taken out of the gene pool with full disclosure or back to the breeder if they take them back...i have my charity case dogs already which i do stuff with but i can ill afford filling my spots with dogs that do not make the cut for my breeding program.

for the average family home that has bought their first dog they become attached and a dog that has the issue they can begin some type of program and help keep the dog as pain free as possible and things to watch for until the dog requires some medical intervention Mikey went till 7 before I had the femoral head oscetomies done with him he is almost 12 and still thinks he is a pup
things like glucosamine some type of exercises to help keep the joints going they do help also feeding different feeds to help keep things in check like weight

so yes even the breeder needs to know IF the pup does have an issue ...so no you don't have to wait till 2 before finding out

and pointers have more HD then people will admit to most just say ah just has a little hitch in the get along when they get about 7 years old been run hard got a setter here that has HD but the guy refuses to admit it just says she is old and it is arthritis in her hip I have tried to explain to him that is extreme HD but he doesn't believe setters get Hip Dysplsia ....

anyways

so those are the direct benefits to finding out sooner then later if there is a QUESTION

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying for one of your dogs or mine. This is a non-registered pup bought off of Craig's list for next to nothing. My point is unless you are going to go shoot the pup there is no need to x-ray unless the pup shows clinical signs that need to be diagnosed. Other wise there is no reason to spend the money. As you say, you still have yours even though you did find out they showed some degree of HD. The x-ray didn't cure them and it didn't make you put them down. Thats the alternatives for this pup as it isn't going to be bred.

Ezzy

[kninebirddog]

But it took the xray to see what was going on...so again I would still wait till after 6 months and then have x rays taken to see if they developed normally
and if there is any question OFA can help register pup or not it is only like 25 bucks above the cost of the x ray for them to rate them if the vet can't determine...

but agan that is if the hips do not delvelop

and craiglist or not the people who had this litter need to know IF there is an issue so they can take precautions as to not produce anymore problem pups

again this is all a big IF

[Bird Dog 67]

Thanks for the replies. Being my first bird dog, I was a little paranoid about it at first. And I agree he's a young guy and has really taken off growth wise in the last week or so. I can hope for the best and see how it looks down the road. There haven't been any signs of pain or discomfort and he gets along pretty well so I'll keep my fingers crossed. Thanks for the input.

Ryan

Awesome picture!

[Killer Instinct]

What a cutie!

[sfellc]

All of my dogs go in a a young age for prelim hip testing. I would rather know before getting thousands in training fees to what I have for a dog on the inside. Although they are not done growing, I think if there is a major issue with your dog, it would be noticable. If your breeder has any kind of consence, he should give you your money back or swap out for another pup. I think that a qualified vet would be able to look at x-rays and tell if there was some abnormal development. It would be a shame to get attached to said pup, and to get training and memories with, only to have to spend 3500 on his hips at 2 or 3 years old, and next 10 or 12 years worth of vet exams and maintence. JMO

[ezzy333]

I have no problem with doing them early if the results could be used to know there was a problem with HD but we know they are not conclusive. That is why 2 years has been set as a minimum age to make that judgement. Since they can not be used I don't want to expose the dogs to anymore radiation than we need to as it of it self can be harmful. Plus I try to stay away from vets offices just as much as I can with young dogs and puppies.

JMO
Ezzy

[kninebirddog]

thing is HD Mild a dog may never show through out a life time...unless there is a boney change which even then i may be after the age of 6 before they might show a hitch in the get a long
even moderate can be the same thing

severe now there is where it really depends on the dog as to what they will show

I have one that had extremely bad hip it was 7 years before i intervened and elected to do femoral head ostectomies on him he is over 12 and thinks he is a puppy
he made for a great guide dog all his life..with some added supplements and exercise through out his life he has been a happy dog

I have another dog who has a mild hip he is 9 years old and shows no signs at all there is anything wrong
both of these dogs are Neutered i learned a lot from them but when they pass on their kennel spots will be replaced with dogs that also can be part of a breeding program is it sad because both of these dogs have that little extra something special on birds oh well

so my point here is just because a dog might have some form of HD it doesn't mean that the dog is going to have to have any medical major surgeries or be crippled for life or anything like that..if it is extreme then again depends on the dog as to what will be needed but there are some things that can be done to help glucosimin and excersise
also wait to have the dog neutered till after the growth plates have closed

again there are many dogs out there that unless the owner has the hips x rayed they would/will never know the hips were not up to par and unless the dog is in discomfort i see no reason to rush and have surgeries done

and has for x rays after looking at pups through older dogs with my vet...i wouldn't make any calls until about 7 months of age cause the pups i had done a 12 weeks old i bet dimes to donuts that vet I was talking to that did this would have had them under the knife and what i saw months later didn't require any surgery as bones and hip socket grew and filled in normal

http://www.medvet-cves.com/pdf/JPS_Review.pdf if you read into this they even state to have this done if a parent had HD and again after what i saw in x rays we did with my pups it opened up my eyes and my vets eyes to this JPS surgery ..as they are only guessing if the dog might develop HD so I seriously question it now and I wouldn't consider it anymore that vet lead me to believe they could tell a pup was HD and after seeing the hipst with growth plates open and still growing to come ..sorry here is no way you can't tell unless of course you have an x ray machine that can take pictures of the future
So after the 6 month range this is where the hip has grown and the groth plates there are closed at least form the 3 sets taken on 3 different dogs i had done showed us
Anyway back to this pup

there are somethings I would not do just incase pretty much a good idea for all pups but specailly on pups that are questionable do not let the pup do any excessive pulling on a check cord or leash be sure he gets exercise but nothing excessive get a large breed type food or a quality adult food
do not let the pup be a fat rolly polly pup nor under weight

these are somethings which can help allow the bones to grow normal with out any added stress