Black Ear Wax ??????

JoeA · Post by **JoeA** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:14 pm

I have a 7 month old GSP and her one ear is always dirty with black ear wax. Ive tried some products from the pet store and It always seeems to be dirty again after a day or so. Im not sure if it causing discomfort it seems like that ear is sensitive. Anyone have any sugestions ??

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:19 pm

From My experience over many years I have found that some foods can cause an allergic reaction in the ears with a tar like discharge.

What exactly are you feeding your dog?

More info to follow.

JoeA · Post by **JoeA** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:24 pm

purina pro plan

Post by **Kiki's Mom** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:27 pm

With only one ear being affected I'd suspect a chronic infection of either yeast build up or bacterial build up. Best bet is to get in tothe vet and get a cytology on a smear of that black gunk so you can treat it with the right stuff

kerplunk105 · Post by **kerplunk105** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:32 pm

Sounds like it may be an infection, I would def take the pup to the vet.

On a side note, this is the best area cleaner I've ever used! http://www.liquidhealthinc.com/prodInte ... ?prodID=32 It works great for my guys.

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:57 pm

sounds like a yeast infection to me. get some otomax or equivalent from your vet and treat twice a day for about a week.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:58 am

Try using "the recipe" for ear gunk

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/ears.html

this stuff works like a charm, but the true cause is diet and most likely grain, i mix a tablespoon of organic apple cider vinegar
in my dogs food and it is know to help change the PH of the skin enough to keep yeast from forming.

it is cheap and we always have it around for when we makes ribs on the smoker.

sal

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:34 am

but the true cause is diet and most likely grain

If that is the cause how come all dogs do not have a yeast infection? There does seem to be a onnection occasionally but I didn't know that was the true cause.

Ezzy

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:18 am

AL,

I hope you keep head & shoulders handy as it's pretty easy to get your dander up about grain or corn ingredients in dog food.

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:03 am

Ear wax is nature's way of building up a barrier so air doesn't travel from one ear to the other in some dogs. As ear wax is more common in some breeds than others, you can draw your own conclusions. Some people have ear wax buildup problems also .... hmmmm .... makes you wonder.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:26 am

BigShooter wrote:AL,

I hope you keep head & shoulders handy as it's pretty easy to get your dander up about grain or corn ingredients in dog food.

Not really as I am just too easy going. I will admit it gets old seeing all of the mis-information and old wife tales influencing so may people and then they use it to influence others. Corn is just one of the items. Also, I do get a little concerned when people diagnose problems over the internet while doctors actually insist you come to the office so they can do the same thing. I love these forums as a way to share info and make suggestions but I do get concerned with some of the medical problems that are presented and they expect someone to solve the problem. Some of them even after seeing the vet. And the same with feeds. The people with no real knowledge and minimal experience are the ones that spend there time telling other people how and what to feed their dogs.

Everyone is free to ask whatever and tell someone whatever they want but it just seems like a way to perpetuate the problems and not solve them. I made up my mind a long time ago to do what I could to share the info that I acquired through years of education and experience both in the industry and also personnally. Don't suppose it will ever make a difference though as we continue to get the same questions and hear the same rumors.

Gotta go find the shampoo, my shoulders are turning white.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:46 am

The Vet's have no answer for ear infections other than greasy Otomax and rip-off ear cleaners. The gentian violet mix with witch hazel and boric acid will work but no vet will tell you about it, although breeders from coast to coast use it. However, unless the uderlying problem is fixed the gunk comes back unless you want to use to forever.

Otomax works for a week then the gunk comes back....the whole problem is diet, ask anyone that had ear problems and finally got rid of them with a better diet.

Ear infection meds are cash cow for Pfizer and thats why there is no mainstream solution.

My lab suffered for 7 years with chronic ear infections until I figured it out. My new pup has never had an ear infection and I have cleaned his ears once in 18 months.

Its a real shame.

sal

High Voltage · Post by **High Voltage** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:23 pm

We have had 4 labs in the past and now have 4 GSP's. We feed only Purina ProPlan.These are hunting dogs and they are swimming in a lake at least once a week in the spring-fall. We have NEVER cleaned any of the dogs ears and have never had any with ear infections. ......I wonder what we are doing wrong

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:01 pm

High Voltage wrote:We have had 4 labs in the past and now have 4 GSP's. We feed only Purina ProPlan.These are hunting dogs and they are swimming in a lake at least once a week in the spring-fall. We have NEVER cleaned any of the dogs ears and have never had any with ear infections. ......I wonder what we are doing wrong

Same here only we have had hundreds of dogs. Never have had a problem.

And the other funny thing is a vet responded to this post just a couple of posts before Mcbosco did and he gave his opinion of what the problem was and what to do with it. And then we find out that vets are not telling you how to treat these problems so you will continue to have problems. I am beginning to think we may need a filter on here.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:34 pm

My point is that Vets just prescribe drugs and short-term fixes, that is what they are trained to do, treat problems. You have to take chronic problems into your own hands within reason of course. If an ear infection comes back again and again and again, a truckload of Otomax is not going to fix it.

I am not knocking Vets but I no patience for the same answer and same bill over and over again.

For me, adding fresh, natural ingredients to the diet worked.

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:13 pm

Like people, I think some dogs have a predisposition to getting ear infections, especially if they tend to enjoy spending time in the water. We scuba divers have a similar problem with fresh water. Some people never get ear infections diving in fresh water; others are plagued by them. Because you're not just talking "water in the ears" with us, but "water in the ears + pressure". Some of us wind up with External Otitis -- which is inflammation of the outer ear and ear canal. This is usually caused by a bacterial or fungal infection.

To prevent this, many of us use Swimmer's Ear or make our own home brew using a similar recipe as has already been posted. However, the information below is courtesy of Dr. Ern Campbell, aka "ScubaDoc":

1/3 white vinegar to 2/3 isopropyl alcohol. A few drops in each ear after diving will help evaporate the water--which sets the stage for the bacteria and fungi. The alcohol can be somewhat irritating, so you might want to substitute hydrogrn peroxide or use an acetic acid-aluminum/sodium acetate solution.

*There's also a generic form of 2% acetic acid in aqueous aluminum acetate otic solution that is similar to Domeboro Otic, which is not made by Bayer any more. This is nonirritating and effective, and the treatment of choice by every ENT I've heard or read who is also an active diver .

EARDROPS

Methods for making up Preventative Ear Drops and Instructions for use. Please take to your Local Pharmacist.

Aluminium Acetate Ear Drops 8%

8 parts of Aluminium Acetate solution BP with 5 parts purified water, freshly boiled and cooled.
Instructions for use: 2 to 3 drops should be applied to both ears once a day. If the water you are diving in is contaminated in any way then use the drops before and after diving.

The shelf life of the bottles once opened will be one week.

Non aqueous Solution
2% Acetic Acid, in a propylene glycol vehicle containing Propylene glycol Diacetate
3% and Sodium Acetate 0.015%.

Instructions for use: 2 to 3 drops should be applied to both ears once a day. If the water you are diving in is contaminated in any way then use the drops before and after diving.

The shelf life of the bottles once opened will be one week.

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor or a vet, nor did I sleep @ a Holiday Inn last night, so this is just info I thought may be useful.

CherrystoneWeims · Post by **CherrystoneWeims** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:55 pm

Corn is probably on of the highest causes of allergies in dogs.

You may want to try eliminating corn from your dog's diet and see what happens. Also add a tablespoon of plain yogurt to your dog's food.

You can also try using "Blue Power" wash to treat/cleanse your dog's ears. I've seen chronic ear infections cleared up using this treatment.

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/Adobe/B ... atment.pdf

dog dr., can Otomax be used in 7 mos. old pups?

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:55 pm

plain yogurt, cow or goat - most supermarkets carry goats milk yogurt now - has so many benefits for dogs. Better yet, is Kefir, which is like yogurt but usually has 10 or more lives cultures. Kefir is available at your local supermarket or health food store. It has the consistency of a milk shake. Yogurt and Kefir are proven to battle yeast infections in people and boost the immune system. I have serious doubt whether the cultures sprayed on kibble do anything.

Dogs love the sour taste as well, use whole milk and better yet organic, for the excellent fat in whole milk.

yummmiiiiii

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:00 pm

mcbosco wrote:plain yogurt, cow or goat - most supermarkets carry goats milk yogurt now - has so many benefits for dogs. Better yet, is Kefir, which is like yogurt but usually has 10 or more lives cultures. Kefir is available at your local supermarket or health food store. It has the consistency of a milk shake. Yogurt and Kefir are proven to battle yeast infections in people and boost the immune system. I have serious doubt whether the cultures sprayed on kibble do anything.

Dogs love the sour taste as well, use whole milk and better yet organic, for the excellent fat in whole milk.

yummmiiiiii

Where in the world do you get all of this stuff. I've never been in a health food store so know little what you would find in there. But I do know they are not regulated like the regular stores and they are finding now that more health problems start in them than any place else. Our AG has been looking into closing a bunch of them.

AAnd whole milk is not a good food for dogs.

I know you can't believe it but dog food manufacturing was started as a cheaper and better way to provide a balanced diet for our dogs and it's been a great success. Our dogs are living longer and healthier lives than ever before. This does not mean you have to feed a good feed but it would be good to not advise other people not to.

The proof is out there every place you look. Field trials, show ring, in the home, and where ever you find dogs.

Ezzy

CherrystoneWeims · Post by **CherrystoneWeims** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:17 pm

And whole milk is not a good food for dogs.

Ezzy,

He's talking about whole milk yogurt. It's better than using the lowfat/nonfat yogurt. Many of the regular grocery stores are now selling Kifir and Goats milk yogurt. It is regulated by the USDA.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:50 am

ezzy,

http://www.redwoodhill.com/kefir.html
http://www.redwoodhill.com/yogurt.htm
http://www.lifeway.net/product/owmk.php

Most grocery stores carry these brands, or something nearly identical. We always have Kefir in the house, 32 ounces in about $3, yogurt is a bit cheaper.

sal

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:50 am

Sorry, but I wasn't sure just what you meant on your other post. Can you show us the tests where Whole Milk Kefir is different than whole milk and also the feeding tests that show these work on dogs? I am particularly interested in the improved immune system claim since now it is thought that the too-good immnue system we already have is responsible for the higher incedence ofallergies that people have.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:25 am

Whole milk yogurt (goat, sheep or cow) and whole milk kefir are fermented products of whole milk, exactly the way low/fat, non-fat yogurt is the fermented product of low/fat, non-fat milk. All those microbes that go into the milk eat essentially the sugars (namely lactose) and the by-products are acids, which preserves the fermented product and makes it tangy. The cultures continue to be active and these work in the digestive tract to keep it in balance. So in answer to your question, the primary differences between fresh milk and yogurt are 1) live cultures swimming around, 2) PH and 3) sugars are not present in plain yogurt.

Whole milk yogurt is superior for dogs due to the fat content, especially organic yogurts where the animals graze and eat hay primarily.

I dont understand what you mean by tests that show yogurt is different than milk? Have you ever tasted yogurt of kefir?

I use goat's milk products because the protein is easier to digest, that goes for people as well as dogs. But I have friends that give their dogs cow's milk products with no issue. Goat's milk is closer to bitches' milk.

Ezzy, the protein, fat, prebiotic enzymes and live cultures are universally accepted as beneficial so I dont know why you have an issue with this.

For $3 bucks a bottle, seems like a no-brainer.

sal

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:21 am

Okay, I'll bite on this debate of hard science versus testimonials. For main stream healthcare and nutrition vs. anecdotal testimonials this battle of words has been boiling for a lot of years now. This is just an opinion post and no hard data will be offered.

Within science we use proven methods to eliminate as many variables that may affect the outcome as possible. For example (and this may not be a perfect example but humor me), let's say we're looking for the cause of cancer in canines. Now if our sample size is small and against normal odds we selected only dogs, that for reasons unknown to us at this time, will never get cancer our study will be flawed. So a lot of time is spent trying to obtain large sample size with "normal" populations. With double blind studies and various techniques to limit unknowns we seek to be able to do research and create reproducible results. After numerous quality studies, at times we believe we have arrived at correct conclusions. Generally, we know what we believe we have proven.

With anecdotes or poor studies whose results are not reproducible, we are left to wonder how valuable the information is because to many people the information is "less" well proven.

Now, there is opposition to any position people want to take. In this case both sides claim we need to know who is sponsoring the research or putting forth the anecdotal stories and what they have to gain. This group includes but is not limited to drug companies, main stream food manufacturers, health food companies, companies that bring new miracle curative health food products to the markets, etc. All of these groups have become more sophisticated. The techniques used by sellers like those of the old medicine shows with the person planted in the audience to be a cheerleader for the product have been replaced by pyramid chain marketing where everyone in the chain has a financial interest in promoting the product, "selling the stories" and hence increasing their personal wealth.

The results of bogus scientific studies carried out by unscrupulous individuals likely cannot be duplicated by honest science. On the other hand, anecdotal stories cannot be proven without quality scientific research. So with anecdotal stories about alternative medicines & health foods cures we are left to wonder, which of these claims are real? At times the search for alternatives may be ahead of the science proving whether claims are valid or not.

The big issue is that as a species humans still know a lot less than they know. So some of these anecdotes about natural products and cures likely have some basis in fact but how can we tell for certain for what individuals and under what circumstances it works. How do we know whom to believe? If hard science doesn't have the answer people want to hear they go looking for alternatives and as a nation we spend more on alternatives than we do on mainstream medicines. So often if we can afford it and we're pretty certain it's not going to kill someone or in this case our canine, we try it ... what the heck.

Without true knowledge you will always have people trying alternatives and their stories ..... some of which are true and many of which are false or even potentially dangerous ..... but how do you know the difference?

For those individuals trained in the sciences the answer is usually, "let me see your data and research" ... I'm not saying you're wrong per se but show me you are right.

For those individuals that don't trust that science has all of the answers it's usually, "I heard that _______ works for that", I'm going to try it. Unfortunately there are too many opportunists preying upon people's desires .... "I know there has to be something out there that will cure this problem, I just have to keep trying alternatives until I find it".

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:58 am

Well said Mark. I am aware of what the populist position is and have no problem with anyone using these products. But I do have a problem with personal preferences being stated as fact and that everyone needs to try it or in many cases avoid certain products when in actuality there is no evidense that they work or don't work. Don't have a clue how it got started but the dog food users seem to be an area with more misinformation than any other I can think of.

People are free as they should bve to use or avoid whatever they want but when the info is put out as fact there needs to be some evidence that is repeatable just to keep new users with the correct info and not basing there knowledge on anything less.

JMO

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:15 am

The solution that I proposed for ear infections in dogs has ZERO downside and 100% upside. Have you ever heard of dog that died from eating Goats Milk yogurt or Kefir?

If the dog has a very bad ear infection, of course, go to the vet and get it taken care of. The problem with ear infections is that they always come back with traditional treatments and the Pharma companies aren't going to suggest something that is proven to help.

By the way if you bothered to Google the topic you will find countless studies from Tufts, University of California, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, FDA and on and on about yogurt, espcially in controlling Candida yeast infections.

No one is speculating here about this particular topic, it is well established. We are always looking for a "scientific" solution but isn't a natural treatment "scientific"?

sal

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:23 am

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/71/4/861

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/4/1158

http://www.springerlink.com/content/v636140lx112g1t3/

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:09 pm

I briefly reviewed the studies.

The first states:

"This hypothesis, however, needs to be substantiated by well-designed randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled human studies of an adequate duration in which several in vivo and in vitro indexes of peripheral and gut-associated immune response are tested."

The second states:

"There were no differences in the percentages of CD4+ and CD8+ T cells between the groups," as you probably know numbers of T cells are critical for allergy control.

As you also no doubt know, human's with good immune systems can very easily get athlete's feet, due to a number of factors including exposure and constant dampness of the feet and toes, due to stockings, footwear and not drying the areas between the toes sufficiently after a shower.

Nowhere did I see a study that clearly demonstrates yourt controls or eliminates ear infections in dogs.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't work or that one can't try it. I just personally don't buy into the tripe that "all Pharma companies are evil" or that they spend all their time and a lot of money trying to hide cheap cures from the public or that boosting the immune system is a cure all.

JMO

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:21 pm

I think the first two references make the point beautifully. Thanks for posting those. There seems to be no evidence that the Kafir or Yogurt have any real health benefit that they can identify. I do think they are fine foods if you like them but that is not normally the type of foods we or our dogs eat and we have never experience a problem let alone a reoccuring problem with illness or lack of immunity. I spent over twenty years before I retired with never missing a day of work and have never had a problem with the dogs we have raised or boarded over the many years. Don't think I ever took a dog to the vet for an illness and just a couple have gone because of injury.

A good well balanced diet seems to be about as good as it gets for us or our dogs.

Ezzy

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:31 am

CherrystoneWeims wrote:
dog dr., can Otomax be used in 7 mos. old pups?

yes

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:05 pm

I enjoyed reading the article. A couple of issues surface. The first issue is the dogs were young and the enhanced ability of young humans to respond to treatment and recover from significant diseases has been established. What works well on the young has not always translated well into what works on the not-so-young. In this article the young dogs were fed significant numbers of live colonies of E. faecium (SF68). You'd have to locate a product that specifically contained similar numbers of live colonies of this specific bacteria (a specific probiotic product would be required). Unfortunately there is no evidence shown that links an increase in fecal IgA to reducing ear infections in mature dogs. Again, not saying that it doesn't work, only saying I didn't find research supporting the anecdote.

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/133/4/1158

Conclusions: Short-term treatment with E. faecium SF68 of dogs with chronic naturally acquired subclinical giardiasis fails to affect giardial cyst shedding or antigen content and does not alter innate or adaptive immune responses.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19298607

This research includes two of the same authors of the study above published 6 years earlier. Unlike the earlier study this study did not see an increase in the fecal IgA. The second article is an example of how nutritional supplementation with the same probiotic did not produce the expected results and apparently is not a cure all. Again this doesn't mean that believing the anecdote and using Kafir or Yogurt won't help only that we haven't seen research here that supports it's use and efficacy in the treatment of canine ear infections.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:22 pm

It is a problem when material that may be copyrighted is posted here on the board. If you want people to read these articles it is best to provide a link and not copy to the board.

Since it is hard for us to check on everyone of these we ask that you all just provide the link.

Ezzy

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:52 pm

Joe -

A couple of years ago one of my dogs seemed to be making a lot of ear wax in one ear. Cleaned it out several tmes, but it kept building back up. When we went in for a routine checkup and shots, the vet and said it appeared there was an active yeast type infection in that ear. Instilled Mometamax for several days and problem disappeared and has not reoccurred.

I'd get it checked.

RayG

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:54 am

Yeast is a pain in the butt, Candida especially. When the immune system is out of balance or impaired by some other ailment it takes advantage much like demodectic mange.

sal

gwgdog66 · Post by **gwgdog66** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:31 pm

dog dr wrote:sounds like a yeast infection to me. get some otomax or equivalent from your vet and treat twice a day for about a week.

My GSP's both had this issue at 7 months. The otomax from the vet fixed both of them right up, took about a week to 10 days.

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:30 pm

mcbosco wrote:My point is that Vets just prescribe drugs and short-term fixes, that is what they are trained to do, treat problems. You have to take chronic problems into your own hands within reason of course. If an ear infection comes back again and again and again, a truckload of Otomax is not going to fix it.

I am not knocking Vets but I no patience for the same answer and same bill over and over again.

For me, adding fresh, natural ingredients to the diet worked.

Wow McB. You need a new vet. I sure don't see my vet that way. She goes out of her way to save me money and has worked diligently with me on a chronic problem. How do you feel about your Family Doctor? Just wondered if there was a pattern here about professionals.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:48 pm

sharon...my vet is fine I meant in general, you know what I am saying....about ear infections and medical professionals of all stripes...

chilly here today hows the temp up in Canada?

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:53 pm

LOl Well, I think the sun was out to-day. I haven't seen it in so long I'm not sure, but i think it was the sun.
Actually a beautiful , 15 degrees Celsius day.
Just back from a little timberdoodle hunt at my 2 favourite places. Not a bird there. The dogs were ticked off.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:04 pm

what's Celsius? :roll:

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:42 pm

mcb,

Fahrenheit = 9/5 * Celsius + 32 degrees. In this case 15 degrees Celsius = 59 degrees Fahrenheit, as you well know -SA.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:47 pm

joke for my Canadian sweety

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:12 am

Ah, how nice. Thanks

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:21 am

I may just have a Pea Bacon sandwich for lunch today, with mustard

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:49 am

If you want a quick and dirty conversion, double the C and add 30 to get F. Subtract 30 and halve it to go the other way.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:09 am

In honor of Sharon I switched the thermometer in my car to Celsius for the weekend!!!

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:35 am

careful mc, you know all canadians are trained to give out false information regarding the weather so as to keep americans away from their hunting grounds, right???

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:47 am

good point...hey how is your Golden search going?

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:11 am

mcbosco wrote:I may just have a Pea Bacon sandwich for lunch today, with mustard

Uh... do you mean peameal bacon or back bacon? There's a difference between those two as well, btw.

I've given up trying to find either down here. I make my own. The stuff they sell down here as Canadian bacon or Canadian style bacon is just fake hammy stuff.

C to F conversion: C temp x 1.8 + 32 = F temp.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:24 am

peameal, i luv that sandwich

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:01 pm

You guys are pretty funny.

Have a thankful Thanksgiving weekend - or do you have Thanksgiving down there.?