Rattlesnake Bite

[PrairieGoat]

Just thought I'd pass on my experience over the weekend with my 1 year old GSP. Hopefully there will be something here that will help someone down the road...

We headed into the mountains Thursday for a 5 day weekend at a cabin I had rented. The cabin is at about 9650' elevation and is very secluded....which we thought would be ideal for the dogs to run and have a good holiday too! Unfortunately, within a couple of hours our youngest dog was bit by a rattlesnake. It was very cool and rainy and we called them in out of the rain into the cabin. Within a few minutes, Boo was whining and I noticed that one of his front legs was swollen about twice normal size. At first I thought he had sprained/strained/broken it, but a quick examination showed that wasn't the case. There were no obvious bite wounds, but due to the thick hair they would have been extremely hard to detect (although later research showed that they will sometime ooze blood). Within 15 minutes or so, Boo became very "shocky" and lethargic. Unfortunately, the rain had turned into a "frog strangler" and there was no way we could make it out to a vet. We got Boo into his bed and covered him up and made him as comfortable as we could. I spent the rest of the night up stoking the fire (cabin only had a "potbellied" stove for heat), and then at daybreak the storm finally broke and we got ready to head to the vet. As we got Boo ready to go, I noticed that there was a silver dollar sized place on the inside of his "elbow" where the hair was already gone and was quite puffy and red. Strangely, Boo was already feeling better (may have been thanks to the rattlesnake vaccine!).

Once we got to the nearest emergency vet, Boo had almost made a full recovery with the exception of the swollen leg, which was still about double normal size. The vet immediately saw us and looked Boo over. When he looked Boo over, he wasn't entirely sure it was a rattlesnake due to the elevation. He did rule out any kind of spider/insect, so there really wasn't much left! He ended up prescibing an anti-inflammatory and an antibiotic. Things seemed good and we were just about to leave when Boo lifted his leg on the exam room door. The door was painted bright white and Boo's urine was about the color of coffee. Not good. The vet immediately took a sample and did an analysis....there was significant metabolized blood in the urine. He then drew a sample of blood and did an analysis to see if it had done any damage to Boo's kidneys. It came back normal! We then left (after paying a $200 bill), with two of the more important pieces of advice....get him to drink as much as possible, and keep checking for feeling in his paw. He also recommended that we find some cold water to take him swimming in to help with the swelling.

We headed back to the mountains, but within a couple of hours realized Boo wasn't going to drink anything....he wanted nothing to do with water. Finally we packed up as quick as we could and headed home. I knew I either had to get him drinking or have him put on an IV, otherwise his kidneys would fail. I finally decided to try boiling chicken in a very thin stock (lots of water) and see if he would drink/eat it. He did and so for two days we fed him this as often as he would take it until the urine turned back from coffee/red to normal light yellow.

He's now back pretty much to normal, although there is some necrosis of the skin at the bite site (which is now easily visible). I think this was a much worse experience for us than it was for him!!!

Lessons learned....#1) ask the vet if he has dealt with snakebites (20/20 hindsight on this, don't know what the answer would have been, but I was a little miffed that he didn't insist on an IV), #2) insist on 24 hour monitoring with IV to flush out the system, #3) keep on with vaccine (don't have any proof it helped...but certainly didn't hurt!), #4) get Boo into snake avoidance training ASAP (my other dog has already been through it). I also did a good bit of research on antivenin....seems like something to avoid except as last resort.

Like I said, a long-winded diatribe, but hopefully there is something in here that will help someone in the future.

Randy

[phermes1]

When Shooter was bitten, he went to an excellent ER vet and was on an IV for 2 days. I think he peed a dark yellow for several days afterwards as his body was flushing out the toxins.
He received 2 vials of antivenin and a plasma transfusion. Before giving him the antivenin, they had us sign a release authorizing them to resuscitate him in case he had an allergic reaction to it and his heart stopped. They told us that it wasn't a very common occurrence, but that it was a risk in using antivenin.

Worst 2 days of my life. Glad to hear your boy pulled through and is doing OK.

[wems2371]

So glad to hear it worked out in the end. Thanks for the information.

[megschristina]

While I was reading that I was like "why did the vet not put him on IVs?!". lol. Glad to hear hes doing well!

[PrairieGoat]

When Shooter was bitten, he went to an excellent ER vet and was on an IV for 2 days. I think he peed a dark yellow for several days afterwards as his body was flushing out the toxins.
He received 2 vials of antivenin and a plasma transfusion. Before giving him the antivenin, they had us sign a release authorizing them to resuscitate him in case he had an allergic reaction to it and his heart stopped. They told us that it wasn't a very common occurrence, but that it was a risk in using antivenin.

Worst 2 days of my life. Glad to hear your boy pulled through and is doing OK.

He seems to be doing great, considering what he went through....thanks!

During my research on this (after the fact!), I stumbled on a couple of things about antivenin that I didn't know. There are two types of antivenin, one made from horse serum (expensive) and one made from sheep serum (very expensive). From what I gather, the horse serum type should only be used for one incident. The dog will typically develop a sensitivity to horse serum and the probability of going into anaphylactic shock is much, much higher if they were to use it a second time. Everything I read indicated that you should be sure that your vet knows that your dog has had the horse serum variety if it is bitten a second time. Apparently, this issue is much reduced, or alleviated, if the sheep serum is used.

Bear in mind that this info was what I found on the internet, so until confirmed by a "real" vet I'd take it with a grain of salt.....just something to be cautious about....

Randy

[snips]

Could it have been a Copperhead? They are not as bad as Rattlesnake. I have had both and the Rattlesnake definetly required anti venum.

[PrairieGoat]

While I was reading that I was like "why did the vet not put him on IVs?!". lol. Glad to hear hes doing well!

Thanks! Knowing what we know now we kind of wonder the same thing!!! He was a young vet and probably hadn't seen too many snakebites, but given the fact that we were headed back into the mountains to almost 10K' (where everything dehydrates!) I would have thought that the need for hydration would have been more than just a one sentence mention!!! From my sample of 1 snakebite, I'd say the need for hydration is the single most important immediate need.

[PrairieGoat]

Could it have been a Copperhead? They are not as bad as Rattlesnake. I have had both and the Rattlesnake definetly required anti venum.

No copperheads in Colorado (thank goodness...one less thing to deal with)!!! My understanding is that the rattlesnake vaccine acts much as antivenin would.....both trigger the immune system to produce antibodies to fight the venom.

Randy

[birdhunter2424]

my club has a snake avoidance clinic coming up in June. if you want to put your dog through it pm me for info. Glad to hear he pulled through it.

[Fireside]

Thanks for the warning! We are heading up to the high country this weekend (Dallas Divide) then will be in the Lake George area for a couple weeks with the dogs and horses. We will keep a sharp eye for rattlers Glad your boy is doing so well!

[Scott Linden]

Glad you're through the worst of it. Did anyone mention immediate antihistamines as a first-aid/immediate response to keep airways open, etc.?

[PrairieGoat]

Glad you're through the worst of it. Did anyone mention immediate antihistamines as a first-aid/immediate response to keep airways open, etc.?

Thanks! On the antihistamines....no, the vet didn't mention them, but remember we didn't get to him until about 14-15 hours after it happened. By then my dog was breathing fine....and even early on, his breathing never seemed to be a problem. I had noted in several articles on snakebite treatment in dogs that they recommended Benadryl (just the "plain" Benadryl, none of the "formulas"). I suspect that this would probably be a good idea from a couple of reasons....would help with any allergic reactions, would calm the dog (slowing the metabolism), and as you said would help keep airways clear.

Randy

[zzweims]

My first reaction to your post was that this was NOT a rattlesnake bite. I could be wrong, but given your elevation and the cool,rainy weather, it does not seem likely. Plus, you found no puncture wounds. Is this a shorthaired breed? Even on a longhaired breed, punctures aren't that hard to find. And you did have hair loss--but no obvious punctures? (trust me, they are obvious). Lesser venomous snakes and spiders can cause the reaction you described. The immediate treatment for any envenomation is anti-histimenes and fluids. Immediately. Glad all worked out for you.

Aline
http://zzfarms.com

[dmadis8]

I have seen two rattlers so far this year up at my cabin that is around 9800 feet. I thought it was still a little cold for them to be out, but guess I was wrong. I am glad to hear your pup is ok. Also, thanks for posting this. I never knew what to do if a dog got bit, now I do and will be keeping some benedryl in my dogs first aid kit.

[PrairieGoat]

Aline,

It didn't seem real likely to me either...but only given the elevation. I've since talked to folks with the local reptile rescue (who knew they had such a thing?!?) that assured me that there are documented cases of rattlesnakes occurring almost up to treeline. As to the weather, 3 weeks prior to this my wife and I almost got bit by one in the same type weather (45-50° and rainy) out in the plains of eastern CO (5000' elev) so the weather certainly wouldn't rule out a rattlesnake. The one that about got us was fairly mobile for a snake at that temperature, may have been the fact that I had put my foot down less than 6 inches from him and never saw him. My wife saw him and screeched just as he started rattling and coiled. By then I was several feet in the air!!!

As for "lesser venomous snakes", we don't have any! The rattlesnake is the only venomous snake in the state of Colorado. As the incident wore on I went from not believing it could be a snakebite to about 90% sure. About 4 or 5 days after the incident, the skin turned black in two spots about an 1/2 inch apart or so (right at the edge of the spot where the hair fell out)....I think those were probably the "missing" fang marks. As I said, we'll never be sure since we didn't see it happen...

Randy

PS....I still think elevation is the best prevention this time of year. There is certainly a much, much lower probability of finding one above 8000' but there is still that one in 40 square miles snake out there one could run into.

[PrairieGoat]

I have seen two rattlers so far this year up at my cabin that is around 9800 feet. I thought it was still a little cold for them to be out, but guess I was wrong. I am glad to hear your pup is ok. Also, thanks for posting this. I never knew what to do if a dog got bit, now I do and will be keeping some benedryl in my dogs first aid kit.

Thanks!!! After this incident, I also added some dog aspirin to my first-aid kit....supposed to be an anti-inflammatory. I'm not sure about using it yet though....people aspirin generally thins the blood and I'm not sure this is something one would want with a snakebite. I'm going to talk to my vet about it first chance I get. If he says "no" to the aspirin, I'm going to ask if he can prescribe an anti-inflammatory that I can carry in my kit. The chances are that if something were to happen again I'd be able to get to the vet immediately, but in this case I wasn't and it sure would have been handy to start working on the swelling as soon as possible. I could see where a dog could loose a paw if the swelling cut off circulation long enough (which wouldn't take too long). I'm also going to get a couple of pieces of some type of hard plastic tubing in case one of mine gets bit on the nose (which is fairly typical). For horse/cattle, I've heard of folks using lengths of garden hose to keep their nostrils open when their nose swells, so I just need to find an appropriate size tubing for dogs (needs to be fairly thick walled to keep from collapsing under pressure).

Randy

[bpenn1980]

We just got onto rattlesnake avoidance this year with our pet dog after a close encounter this May. So far this year I've seen two rattlers here in southern california. My upcoming pointer will be getting it as well next spring at 9 months old.

I think I got my parents to do their labs as well since I killed a juvenile on their property at 8000' in Big Bear last month. It was right on the path to the barn from the house, dogs would have taken one on the nose for sure. Those same labs cornered a gopher snake under a bush a couple months back. I know the older dog has as high a prey drive as any dog and definitely got bit a few times from the gopher, luckily it was a gopher.

After that I taped up some thick cardboard on my lower legs and took a pole and shotgun around the property checking all the woodpiles, pumphouse, barn, hay/alfalfa, etc. Didnt find anymore, but they scare the cr@p outta me. I cant wait for hunting season and no snakes.

[dog dr]

I have seen two rattlers so far this year up at my cabin that is around 9800 feet. I thought it was still a little cold for them to be out, but guess I was wrong. I am glad to hear your pup is ok. Also, thanks for posting this. I never knew what to do if a dog got bit, now I do and will be keeping some benedryl in my dogs first aid kit.

Thanks!!! After this incident, I also added some dog aspirin to my first-aid kit....supposed to be an anti-inflammatory. I'm not sure about using it yet though....people aspirin generally thins the blood and I'm not sure this is something one would want with a snakebite. I'm going to talk to my vet about it first chance I get. If he says "no" to the aspirin, I'm going to ask if he can prescribe an anti-inflammatory that I can carry in my kit. The chances are that if something were to happen again I'd be able to get to the vet immediately, but in this case I wasn't and it sure would have been handy to start working on the swelling as soon as possible. I could see where a dog could loose a paw if the swelling cut off circulation long enough (which wouldn't take too long). I'm also going to get a couple of pieces of some type of hard plastic tubing in case one of mine gets bit on the nose (which is fairly typical). For horse/cattle, I've heard of folks using lengths of garden hose to keep their nostrils open when their nose swells, so I just need to find an appropriate size tubing for dogs (needs to be fairly thick walled to keep from collapsing under pressure).

Randy

see if your vet will give you a 500 mg bottle of Solu Delta Cortef. Its a steroid you can give in the muscle (although any form of dexamathasone or prednisone will work), will help with inflamation and shock, although the shock part has never been proven. Also, Recover is an injectable antihistamine that i carry in my dog kit. small animal vets may not have any, but a mixed or large animal vet might. as for the surgival tubing in the nostrils in case they get bit on the nose, they should still be able to breathe thru their mouths, so that might be a little over kill. the reason they use it on horses is because you can kill a horse by putting ping pong balls in its nostrils. just add that bit of trivia to your file of "useless knowledge"!

[TEX-X]

we use to treat rattlesnake bites with a shot of dex. shave the area and multiple times stick with a needle...then coat in DMSO and run a bag of lactated ringers solution... I'm not a vet....but we always carried dex and DMSO in my truck at all times when the dogs are out..