Gun Dog Forum

Just received some information that the dog feed Taste of the Wild contains Ethoxyquin in the food. Apparently it is used as a preservative in food but its not a good thing.

I am still looking for more information on the subject but I figured there might be some on here that wanted to know.

I can't believe the information you got was correct. I lookeed on their website and they sure don't list anything like Ethoxiquin. It says the food is preserved with mixed tocopherols. That is what almost everyone is using now to preserve the fat source.

I think you go BAD info.

If you search Ethoxiquin on any search engine you wil find plenty about it. IT hasn't been used in dog food that I know of since the mid 90's and later.

Mike,

Could be misinformation. It came from a reputable source IMO and I don't believe its all false. There was a pretty interesting thought about how Ethoxyquin effects breeding. However I don't think it is something they (TOTW) put in the food. Its what whoever farms the fish puts in the fish.

I am neutral on the situation. I don't eat organic either. Just figured it was of some importance and someone might want to know to read up on it themselves.

if its in the food its in the fish meal, i remember a few years back Chicken Soup got caught with Ethoxyquin in the fish meal...Diamond makes Taste of The Wild so if you are worried call Diamond and ask.

most companies make a point of saying their fish meal is ethoxyquin free you shouldnt have to ask, frankly if a company can't put it on the bag i don't think i would trust a "no" on the phone.

mcbosco wrote:if its in the food its in the fish meal, i remember a few years back Chicken Soup got caught with Ethoxyquin in the fish meal...Diamond makes Taste of The Wild so if you are worried call Diamond and ask.

most companies make a point of saying their fish meal is ethoxyquin free you shouldnt have to ask, frankly if a company can't put it on the bag i don't think i would trust a "no" on the phone.

Which is one of the main reasons why I posted it. Diamond seems to keep popping up with problems. Since Diamond makes TOTW I figured it would be something I would want to know. Not saying Diamond is a bad food. But, it scares me a little.

GsPJustin wrote:

mcbosco wrote:if its in the food its in the fish meal, i remember a few years back Chicken Soup got caught with Ethoxyquin in the fish meal...Diamond makes Taste of The Wild so if you are worried call Diamond and ask.

most companies make a point of saying their fish meal is ethoxyquin free you shouldnt have to ask, frankly if a company can't put it on the bag i don't think i would trust a "no" on the phone.

Which is one of the main reasons why I posted it. Diamond seems to keep popping up with problems. Since Diamond makes TOTW I figured it would be something I would want to know. Not saying Diamond is a bad food. But, it scares me a little.

Sounds like you have already held the trial and have pronounced them guilty and all in the same paragraph you admit you don't know if this is true since it is just something you heard.

Back in my day they called this gossip or lets see what we can get started today. Get the facts and then post it is the proper order of things no matter whether we are talking about a dog food company or you.

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote: Sounds like you have already held the trial and have pronounced them guilty and all in the same paragraph you admit you don't know if this is true since it is just something you heard.

Back in my day they called this gossip or lets see what we can get started today. Get the facts and then post it is the proper order of things no matter whether we are talking about a dog food company or you.

Ezzy

Sorry you decided to assume and jump to conclusions Ezzy. Considering I feed Taste of the Wild, and really have no intent to switch off I'd say that I am pointing fingers at no one. Matter of fact is, there might be some Ethoxyquin in the food. I never said anything was positive. Actually the only thing I "stated" was this:

GsPJustin wrote:Diamond seems to keep popping up with problems.

There was the corn scare, chicken soup (Diamond product) had Ethoxyquin in it. To me that's a reason to look into it further. Regardless whether it ends up being true or not...

GsPJustin wrote:
Diamond seems to keep popping up with problems.

What problems? The only thing I know is someone reported on the internet that he heard from a friend that there might be ethoxyquin in their feed. Doesn't sound like something that would hold up in court. And if it doesn't concern you why would you think someone else needs to know. I still say it is gossip till there is some form of confirmation and at that time I think it would be good to post it. I might be wrong but at this point the person reporting this says he isn't even concerned. It just doesn't sound quite kosher to me.

Ezzy

HA! Not sure why you take so much offense to people saying Diamond might has something in there food. You must get something from them to defend them with such relentlessness... If you choose not to remember the corn recall, or the Ethoxyquin in Chicken soup that's fine. You can go play in Diamond land and have a blast. Just don't ruin my threads on your way.

Not sure why you feel the need to come in here and tell me what I have to say is gossip either. Last time I checked this isn't court, this is a discussion board, where we "discuss" things. I always here people say, if you don't like it, don't read it. Well that doesn't mean just because your a moderator you should read it anyway, and tell people how "you just don't think so..."

I never said it didn't concern me. If it didn't concern me do you think I would even take the time to post it? I said that I have no intent to switch off. Meaning unless there is some more information. WHICH I SAID I DIDN'T HAVE...... I probably will keep feeding it because my dog does great on it.

I have also said twice that I posted it because people that feed TOTW might want to know about such thing if it does exist. Not one time did I say "HEY EVERYBODY LOOK ETHOXYQUIN." So why do you keep insisting I did?

It isn't Diamond I am defending. I would and have done the same for any other company or any individual including you. I read your post because most are good and secondly it is my job. It is also my job to protect the integerty of this board and we try to do that by insisting that things that are posted be truthful or we could be hit with a liable suit. As long as we show we are being straight forward then the liability fall on you and not the board. So first I try to protect the board and secondly I try to protect you. Normally when we do that, people don't get upset and argue about it.

Thats my reason and hope you can see why we try to keep the board above board and make sure the info given out is at least based on fact and not just something that there seems to be no evidence to support.

Hope this helps.

Ezzy

Not sure how your protecting me by telling me and anyone else that reads this thread that I am just gossiping and spreading rumors out to embarrass a dog food company.

If you would have said that the information is probably not correct. I would have agreed with you much like I did Mike. I have no idea if it is actually true, and I stated that. All I was trying to do was make people aware that if you care as much about your dogs as I do, you should take a look at this. Not sure where the liability would fall on that one.

I am glad you are doing your job, and if that includes protecting me, well thank you. But insisting that I am just a high school girl out to tell everyone about pimples just isn't true, and I take offense to that.

Come on now!!!! I knew you weren't good looking enough to be a high school girl. :roll: Only you can decide what you wnt to be offended by. Other things I will try to help with but being offended is something only you can control so that one is in your court. Thats all I can do.

Ezzy

For the time being it is an issue of "watch an see" for me. I feed TOTW to some of the dogs. Diamond naturals to the others. The thing is after looking into it some, I find ethoxiquin is fat soluble and used as a preservative. Used in nearly all chicken feed, as a preservative for fish, and tested in many animals including humans and dogs, but less cumulative in birds than mammals. Still chicken meal in nearly every food probably has trace amounts. Probably the chicken in my freezer too, and what about all the fish oil and fish oil supplements? If it is fat suluble there is probably trace amounts. So here are my thoughts generalized.
I do think we need avoid all these potentially harmful chemicals, BUT they were initially added to protect food from other harmful bacteria and fungus...
I have to feed something and I have to be able to afford it.
I hate feeding my kids so many things I question the long term safety of, but again I have to afford food. We can not starve.
If everyone knew what "organic" would certify as acceptable, it would raise your eyebrows at the least.
I do try to buy our people food as "locally" as possible. (Not shipped from here to there and preserved forever to make the trip. Can't get much more "local" than hunting I add deer, rabbit, etc, parts to my dogs diet too. Hearts, liver, conective tissue I don't like, and deer bone. The dogs are impressed much more than I with these parts.

Nevertheless, I watch and hope we as a species learn what is okay before we kill our own species...

I luv to here people giving their dogs REAL food once in a while...

Three Cheers..I am a big green tripe feeder myself.

sal

sorry its mountaindogs not man

sal

The bottom line to Ethoxyquin in TOTW is that any dog food manufacturer that doesn't state that they don't have it in their food should be assumed to have it. And those that say they don't should probably be taken with a grain of salt!!! I suspect that some of the higher dollar manufacturers like Orijen/etc probably do test for it, but I suspect that most don't.....and even then it becomes an argument of how much is too much.

Bottom line.....as I've seen on here more times than I can count, find a food that works for your dog and quit worrying so much. I currently feed TOTW, which may or may not have ethoxyquin, and am happy with it for the moment....in a few months I may decide to jump to something else for whatever reason, and it may or may not have ethoxyquin. There are a lot of dangers out there for my bird dog that I may have an influence on and ability to change....whether or not a particular food has ethoxyquin is not one of them.

Randy

at the risk of sounding like an east coast elitist, which I am not, there is no reason for a company to use rubber stabilizer in dog food, period.

it is solely a matter of cost and that's the truth, as there is plenty of naturally preserved herring and menhaden meal out there...but the "special select" or "select" varieties costs more.

for me its a combination of health and morality

sorry to sound like such a wuss

I just switched Leena to this food. She is doing so well on it. I honestly think that any kibble is going to have issues. Look at the cost of the food compared to what they say is in there. There is no way all of the ingred. would be of the quality for people or it would be in people food.

My Labrador eats a raw diet. When Leena gets a bit older, I'll be switching her as well.

that may be true but fit for human consumption and nutty chemicals are two different things, you live in Bucks County? I live in Monmouth County NJ.

you must order raw food from this place in NJ its not far from you...i luv it and order from time to time. i get oma's pride from a lady down the road so i help her along she is retired..but this place is great

http://healthypawsllc.net/splash.asp

she runs great specials and shipping is easy, her green tripe is wonderful as are the meat mixes

sal

I get it from Dogs&Cats Rule in Newtown. Worked there for 6 years and get it at cost I use Bravo.

bravo is good too i like the big 10 pound tubes, slicing those into disks is loads of fun hahahhaha

The 10# is the cheapest way to go. I try and not let it thaw all the way out when I'm cutting it up. Less blood that way lol

mcbosco wrote:at the risk of sounding like an east coast elitist, which I am not, there is no reason for a company to use rubber stabilizer in dog food, period.

it is solely a matter of cost and that's the truth, as there is plenty of naturally preserved herring and menhaden meal out there...but the "special select" or "select" varieties costs more.

for me its a combination of health and morality

sorry to sound like such a wuss

This is not true when you say it is a matter of cost. You have no idea what the cost is on any of the ingredients or how they are priced.

Ezzy

yes i do, i have the ingredient costs for 26 well known dog foods in my files, they are about a year old but you can't tell me that naturally preserved foodstuffs don't cost more cause they do...just like the cost of organic vs non organic

how can you honestly say that ingredient choices are not a matter of cost...come on now...for some brands the margins are so thin they have to be a major consideration

even with a higher priced brands like Canidae, the company even admitted publicy that the formula change was a matter of cost, rice prices

as for fish meal, there is major cost difference between single type naturally preserved low temperature processed fish meal and FAQ-types

Canidea also changed from salmon meal to "ocean fish meal" so they could buy whatever was cheapest.

sal

Of course companies that care about their customers try to buy the cheaper products that supply the needed ingredients to meet a dogs nutritional requirements. When rice went sky high there was a switch to some other carb source if they could find one cheaper. Thank god someone is trying to keep dog food reasonably priced.

The problem is you are looking at the dog food companies as the enemy that is out to take advantage of you at every turn. I know that we spent millions of dollars trying to find the best products that would supply a dogs needs at a reasonable price so we could keep our customers and they could afford to feed their dogs. Our customers were our life blood and without them no company would exist. Thats one of the reasons we always had a customer appreciation week to show how important they were to us but we worked hard to provide the very best product we could year round. And I will be the first to admit if we could save you 20 dollars a ton by switching to a different fish meal that provides the same nutrional qualities then we would switch in a heart beat. But we didn't ever switch if it in any way it cheapened the quality of the feed.

Your list of ingredient cost that you have in your desk drawer has no relation to what the cost would be today. Those costs vary everyday. Last weeks prices would have limited accuracy this week. I think you would see that every time you buy anything today.

By the way Ethoxyquin was used to improve the stabiity of the feed and it worked. There was one vet that thought he could see a problem with the dogs health and he thought it might be the ethoxyquin. Don't believe it was ever proved but to be on the safe side it was removed from the pet food. The fact it was used in rubber manufacturing should not enter into this discussion as there are thousands of products that have many uses in many areas and that doesn't make them bad.

Ezzy

ezzy333 wrote:I know that we spent millions of dollars trying to find the best products that would supply a dogs needs at a reasonable price

Ezzy,,, I didn't read the whole thread,,,,, but what do ya do for a living? I gather your in the dog food industry?

Ezzy, we both love our animals but my views on diet are just different thats all. There is a place for kibble or other dry types like granular (abady) or deyhydrated (honest kitchen) but still nothing lights up a dogs eyes like a chicken leg & thigh or big slab of liver once in a while or a stinky bowl of green tripe.

To the extent the chemical industry can stay out of the food industry, all the better. I do agree with you on a bunch of things that depart from the modern thinking, I think by-products are good, as you do, and I amazed that people think pig and beef fat is bad for dogs. So gimme more high quality by-products and dont hold the pork fat.

Hey did anyone see the story about ranchers breeding miniature cows for beef production? God they were cute.

I am getting hungry.

Just figured I'd add in the little tidbit that I threw this up hear for general knowledge. Not so people would shun a dog food company. Maybe I should have posted it in a different section.

I don't wish to feed my dogs ethoxyquin. None. Nada. I've been feeding Natural Balance and I just emailed them asking if they could guarantee there is no ethoxyquin in their food. They responded with a list of things they test for. I replied asking why they don't test for ethoxyquin. It turns out they do. They ended up with 3 to 21ppm depending on the product. Their claim is it is required by federal law in all fish meal. Since they don't put E in their product they don't have to claim it. It didn't seem to matter that they put the fish meal in that had the E in it. I'm sorry but the FDA's "level of concern" is much lower than mine.

I just bought some Orijen. 70% fresh meat, 30% vegetables and fruit, 0% grain. My dogs devoured it when I got home. Expensive? Perhaps, but so is chemotherapy, DAMHIK.

Send a pm with email addy and I'll send you the emails or you can ask your dog food company yourself.

I don't need to e-mail anyone about ethoxyquin. We used to use it as a preservative in many feeds that included high level of fats to keep it from getting rancid and either making the feed unpalatible or worse yet making the animals ill. Don't believe anyone uses it anymore except in the fish solubles that are used in some feeds but seldom if ever in dog food. The level that was used has never been found to be harmful but it did save some animals from getting sick or worse. When an ingredient is used in a feed it is there for the purpose of improving the product and ethoxyquin did just that. Since that time there have been other products found or developed to do the job which is good and the only ethoxyquin normally used used today is in fish products from overseas.

To date there hasn't been any test done that proved ethoxyquin has been a problem but most all companies have stopped the use since there has been evidence that at higher levels it can cause problems. That was the responsible thing to do since we have better ways to keep the dog food safe for consumption.

Ezzy

Nice bit of fiction there Ezzy.

Iams, some Eukanuba, even some Science Diet have E listed on the ingredient panel. In fact if its not excluded it's in it.
Monsanto studied it for 5 years and found no adverse effects. Inchem planned a one year study and was 'sacrificing' dogs after only 9 weeks. I'd email you the studies but you don't need them. The FDA allows pet food to have 150ppm but its relatively banned for human consumption, allowing only 3ppm for spice coloring stability. Wow- I weigh 4 times my dog but he can have 50 times what I'm allowed. I'm sure they just banned it because it was the right thing to do and didn't need any studies to come to that conclusion. Or is it dogs can't sue?

As far as making the food better, yes less rancidity and the problems that causes but E also increased shelf life. Less waste more profit.

The problem with E is not only is it carcinogenic its accumulative. Dogs piss very little of it out and its absorbed by the kidneys and liver. Yes, there are studies and they are not too difficult to find.

I would imagine by now you think I'm just out to demonize pet food makers. I'm not. I just want what's best for my dog and feel the practice of not declaring E when they know full well it's in there is deceptive. And they are decieving for one reason- they want my pet food dollar.

Regards-
C-dad

Ethoxyquin is not required to be in all fish meals, but it is in most mixed fish meal products.

"Natural Nautic is natural Menhaden meal, made from only the freshest fish and processed at a low temperature. This assures a finished product that is low in TVN (total volatile nitrogen) and histamine level, and is high in digestibility. Mixed tocopherals are then used as a stabilizer, instead of ethoxyquin, generally used in Special Select Menhaden meal. Natural Nautic was originally developed for the pet food industry and to meet the demands for the organic feed market.

Natural Nautic fish meal differs from conventional regular grade fish meal in the quality and freshness of the raw material. The Menhaden are delivered chilled and whole to the processing facility in modern refrigerated vessels where they are immediately processed. This immediate processing technique allows Omega Protein to optimize the quality of the meal through low temperature drying conditions and stabilization at the time of manufacture. The product is therefore of high protein quality, showing enhanced digestibility."

If your food company cannot GTY a grade like this, buy another. Canidae, Wellness & Abady will.

i just put toby and whiskers on taste of wild salmon.
they both got sick off of canidae als that i have fed for years so i changed to TOW.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THE SUPPLIERS ARE USING A NEW PRESRVATIVE NOT THE ETHO KIND.

i am getting this for 38 dollars a 30# bag and using 2 bags a month.

what do you folks think?
thanks