Diamond dog food

maverick351 · Post by **maverick351** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:20 pm

I have read many of the posts on here regarding food. I used to feed my pup Purina Pro Plan and he had horrible gas and the stool was never consistent but there was always plenty of it. I have switched him over to Diamond Performance. Since the switch his gas is down and his stool is consistent and a lot less. I am happy with his coat and his health. This seems to be doing the trick so any one looking for a switch I reccomend this.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:54 pm

so what Pro Plan were you feeding yours- that Diamond's is so much better

Rick Hall · Post by **Rick Hall** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:06 am

My experience with Diamond and PP's performance (and LB puppy) formulas was exactly the opposite. Different dogs...

Dennmor · Post by **Dennmor** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:07 am

Rick Hall wrote:My experience with Diamond and PP's performance (and LB puppy) formulas was exactly the opposite. Different dogs...

Mine too.

dennmor

highcotton · Post by **highcotton** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:22 pm

Dennmor wrote:
Rick Hall wrote:My experience with Diamond and PP's performance (and LB puppy) formulas was exactly the opposite. Different dogs...

Mine too.

dennmor

mine too...or should I say three...

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:49 am

So you all like Diamond over PP??? Really????

Dennmor · Post by **Dennmor** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:10 am

snips wrote:So you all like Diamond over PP??? Really????

uh no, only maverick351

It seems I always come back to PP. I haven't tried the Sam's Club Exceed so I may give that a try. If that doesn't work, I'll probably just cough up the extra $'s and stick with what I know works.
I'll let everyone else duke it out as to what's "best". :roll:

dennmor

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:14 am

um no- Pro Plan Performance beats Diamond hands down-

Diamond does ok- much cheaper- so I'm using it- hard to complain about the results in the way they look and go plus I'm not having stool issues
500 lbs for $189.00 made scense

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:28 am

When it comes to food it seems to me that the cost of the food has to be looked at in terms of cost per calorie (assuming the calories are the right kind), availability in your area and clean-up, although the cost of that is subjective. Special needs are a consideration but that is a different topic.

If you look at the cost per calorie, the less expensive and the national brands don't look as attractive. In fact ProPlan is very expensive on that basis and is largely grain. The "chicken" listed first includes water, "chicken meal" is in there but is a minor ingredient.

ProPlan Select gives you 1,381 calories per $1 vs. Canidae at 1,718 per $1, while Pro Plan costs 36 cents a pound more, unreal. The first three ingredients in Canidae are animal meat meals.

Very few dog foods have the balls to calculate calories by protein, fat and carbs, for very good reason.

I used prices on PetFoodDirect.com it may be different where you live.

It is interesting what you pay for when you break it down to cost of a calorie.

Dennmor · Post by **Dennmor** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:22 am

mcbosco wrote:When it comes to food it seems to me that the cost of the food has to be looked at in terms of cost per calorie (assuming the calories are the right kind), availability in your area and clean-up, although the cost of that is subjective. Special needs are a consideration but that is a different topic.

If you look at the cost per calorie, the less expensive and the national brands don't look as attractive. In fact ProPlan is very expensive on that basis and is largely grain. The "chicken" listed first includes water, "chicken meal" is in there but is a minor ingredient.

ProPlan Select gives you 1,381 calories per $1 vs. Canidae at 1,718 per $1, while Pro Plan costs 36 cents a pound more, unreal. The first three ingredients in Canidae are animal meat meals.

Very few dog foods have the balls to calculate calories by protein, fat and carbs, for very good reason.

I used prices on PetFoodDirect.com it may be different where you live.

It is interesting what you pay for when you break it down to cost of a calorie.

Very interesting! Would it be reasonable to assume that, since Canidae has more calories, you could feed less with the same results? And, more calories with less bulk should mean less poop, right?
I've been feeding my Large Munsterlander and my GLP almost 8 cups of PP a day ! That just seems like a lot of food. If I feed them much less, they start to loose weight.

I'll have to do some math and figure out how many calories a day that amount comes to.
Are calories, assumeing they come from a proper source, the bottom line?

dennmor

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:03 pm

Calories are only one of many things that a feed provides. If you are only interested in calories then all you need to feed is fat. It is where most of the calories in a feed come from. The problem is that most people do not understnd what a complete diet is and they use so many different ways to try and make one feed better than another without understanding how the different ingredients work together to provide the balanced diet that a dog needs just like we do. Just think how screwed up your diet would be if you judged it the same as you are trying to judge the dogfood you buy.

If calories is the way to judge the cost of a feed then why is it important to include green vegetables in our diet. Remember if that is all you think is important then fat will provide the most and grains be next with meat being last. But then we have all of the minberals and vitamins that are just as important if not more so and they don't provide a single calorie.

There is no way any of us can look at a list of ingredients on a bag and have any idea how the feed is formulated and what it provides. Thats why all of the feeds are checked in a lab and also in feeding test to insure they are providing exactly what is needed for a dog to be healthy. The companies spend millions of dollars to insure the results of their products and then the state and federal government both followup with tests of their own to be sure it does what the company says it does.

Pick your feed by calories alone and you will end up with a dead dog since there are so many other things much more critical in any animals diet.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:17 pm

You feed 8 cups of dry per dog?

I believe that all else being equal, like the quality of ingredients, cost per calorie is a sound way to compare dog foods. Its hard to go by cups when comparing because there are large kibble sizes that are not a dense as others. So start off with calories per pound and then do your comparison.

My partner has a Spinone like I do, male 90lbs, and he holds weight on 3.5 cups of Canidae during training. I have no specific allegiance to Canidae but it is one of the super premium brands that is available almost everywhere and it comes in 44lb bags.

The comparison of Canidae to Pro Plan is even more intriguing since the primary protein source in PP is Corn Gluten and in Canidae its Turkey/Chicken/Lamb.

Annamaet is another great performance kibble company owned by an actual musher.

I haven't crunched the numbers on Annamaet, but I imagine it would be similar to Canidae. That is a popular food in my area for working and training dogs.

Hope that helped

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:27 pm

Ezzy,

I did not say pick your food solely on the calorie count. And I specifically said I was not addressing particular dietary needs.

What I said is that one can compare two or more commercially available foods to see what is the better value.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this. This is one way you catch the bean counters and their evil ways.

On this basis, would you agree that Canidae is a better value than PP?

I will agree with you that it might not work for every dog.

sal

Dennmor · Post by **Dennmor** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:17 pm

mcbosco wrote:You feed 8 cups of dry per dog?

I believe that all else being equal, like the quality of ingredients, cost per calorie is a sound way to compare dog foods. Its hard to go by cups when comparing because there are large kibble sizes that are not a dense as others. So start off with calories per pound and then do your comparison.

My partner has a Spinone like I do, male 90lbs, and he holds weight on 3.5 cups of Canidae during training. I have no specific allegiance to Canidae but it is one of the super premium brands that is available almost everywhere and it comes in 44lb bags.

The comparison of Canidae to Pro Plan is even more intriguing since the primary protein source in PP is Corn Gluten and in Canidae its Turkey/Chicken/Lamb.

Annamaet is another great performance kibble company owned by an actual musher.

I haven't crunched the numbers on Annamaet, but I imagine it would be similar to Canidae. That is a popular food in my area for working and training dogs.

Hope that helped

Yes, 4 in the mornng and 4 in the eve. I think it's a bit absurd!

I think there is agreement that Caidae does offer a well balanced formula. That being said, if I can cut the amount I feed and still maintain health and weight, Canidae would be worth trying on my dogs.
I can't recall hearing anything bad being posted about Canidae other than the price.
I do think there is validity in comparing price per calorie, once you have esablished that all foods being compared have quality, well balanced formulas.

dennmor

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:54 pm

Yes and that was my point all along but I also wanted to highlight that the primary protein source in PP is Corn Gluten and I see no reason to pay such a high price for that. It surprised me how much PP costs. $55 bucks for 37.5lbs almost gets you a bag of Orijen.

You know some enzymes and pro-biotics might help your dogs eat less and digest more. Ask your vet, or better yet call Robert Downey at Annamaet and see what he says. I know people with gassy dogs that swear buy them.

How much does your Muster-guy weigh?

http://picasaweb.google.com/mcbosco68/J ... hrLY-c6wFw#

That is my dog is he about 90lbs and 2.5 cups of Abady is all he needs and he in intact. He ate just that for 9 days when we were on vacation and ran an 80 acre farm with a bunch of jack russells.

I mix raw and Abady normally and I don't think it costs much more than a super premium dry but feeding raw its a "bleep" load of work.

anyway good luck

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:45 pm

mcbosco wrote:Ezzy,

I did not say pick your food solely on the calorie count. And I specifically said I was not addressing particular dietary needs.

What I said is that one can compare two or more commercially available foods to see what is the better value.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this. This is one way you catch the bean counters and their evil ways.

On this basis, would you agree that Canidae is a better value than PP?

I will agree with you that it might not work for every dog.

sal

The short answer is NO. But then your basis is scued also.

Ezzy

Dennmor · Post by **Dennmor** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:07 pm

mcbosco wrote:Yes and that was my point all along but I also wanted to highlight that the primary protein source in PP is Corn Gluten and I see no reason to pay such a high price for that. It surprised me how much PP costs. $55 bucks for 37.5lbs almost gets you a bag of Orijen.

You know some enzymes and pro-biotics might help your dogs eat less and digest more. Ask your vet, or better yet call Robert Downey at Annamaet and see what he says. I know people with gassy dogs that swear buy them.

How much does your Muster-guy weigh?

http://picasaweb.google.com/mcbosco68/J ... hrLY-c6wFw#

That is my dog is he about 90lbs and 2.5 cups of Abady is all he needs and he in intact. He ate just that for 9 days when we were on vacation and ran an 80 acre farm with a bunch of jack russells.

I mix raw and Abady normally and I don't think it costs much more than a super premium dry but feeding raw its a "bleep" load of work.

anyway good luck

Well, I must say that I've been feeding them the eight cups for just three weeks to see if I could put a little weight on them.
I just weighed them and they have gained weight. Moses, 4.8lbs in the three weeks and Sika the GLP 5.6lbs. Moses went from 57.0 to 61.8 and Sika went from 55.8 to 60.2. That's quite a bit. But, I run and swim them at least 4 times a week and they aren't looking heavy at all.
So to PPs credit they have bulked up some, as you would expect . I think they both look pretty good right now so I'll back off on the portions. As I cut back I'll see, at what amount they level off.
I think I'll give Canidae a try with the next bag though.

Here's Moses a couple days ago...

And Sika the same day...

BTW, Sorry to have high-jacked this post. Food posts seem to have a tendency to go off the original topic.

Later and thanks for all the info,
dennmor

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:10 pm

sweet looking poochies

Dennmor · Post by **Dennmor** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:30 pm

thanks.

dennmor

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:45 am

mcbosco wrote:.

The comparison of Canidae to Pro Plan is even more intriguing since the primary protein source in PP is Corn Gluten and in Canidae its Turkey/Chicken/Lamb.

try that comparison with Pro Plan Performance-

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:13 am

i will tonight and i will compare to another as well

nanney1 · Post by **nanney1** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:30 am

Just curious as to how anyone would know that chicken is really not the number one ingredient in Pro Plan Performance due to the water weight reduction after cooking???? I understand how someone could assume it is the case, but.....Unless you know how much fresh chicken is included in their recipe, then there is no way of knowing if if corn gluten meal is the top ingredient based on a dry matter basis.

Am I missing something here, or is there a place to find the percentage of ingredients?

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:40 am

It would be great if Purina actually told you how many calories were from animal protein, plant protein, fat etc or told you what percentage of the dry weight was animal protein for example. Only a few companies are that open about it. Orijen actually tells you both, calories and dry weight. Dr Foster & Smith does, Canidea does on the website, many do if you call.

I would actually like to know the exact number myself just for kicks but I would guess on a dry matter basis its between and 3 and 5 depending on which PP. Wouldn't matter much even it were 2 to me.

If chicken protein were really the #1 ingredient they would say that even on a dry matter basis it was #1, but they don't. Marketing is what it is and the big boys have the muscle.

Perhaps someone else on here knows but I doubt Purina would tell you.

The only reason I brought it up was because of the price of Pro Plan. Pro Plan Select is $1.80lb, PP Performance is $1.45lb while Orijen is $1.97lb and its at least 70% meat protein by dry weight. Canidae is less than $1.15lb. Prices can vary I know, I just pulled them off PetFoodDirect.

I have just found that over the past 25 years that "expensive" dog food was actually cheap, especially when you factor in how much you feed. I know people feeding Orijen that go about 1 cup per 50lbs. My neighbors Porti eats only 1.5 cups of Canidae a day and he is 55lbs.

Duane M · Post by **Duane M** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:07 pm

mcbosco wrote:.

I have just found that over the past 25 years that "expensive" dog food was actually cheap, especially when you factor in how much you feed. I know people feeding Orijen that go about 1 cup per 50lbs. My neighbors Porti eats only 1.5 cups of Canidae a day and he is 55lbs.

On the spot bosco. I resisted for years buying the high dollar food till two years ago when I made a big switch. Now I feed 1.5-2 cups per dog a day and the clean up is much easier and the condition of the dogs is much better. Like the old saying ya get what ya pay for.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:10 pm

nanney1 wrote:Just curious as to how anyone would know that chicken is really not the number one ingredient in Pro Plan Performance due to the water weight reduction after cooking???? I understand how someone could assume it is the case, but.....Unless you know how much fresh chicken is included in their recipe, then there is no way of knowing if if corn gluten meal is the top ingredient based on a dry matter basis.

Am I missing something here, or is there a place to find the percentage of ingredients?

The only way to know the percentage of each ingredient is to see the formula. And naturally those are not publicized. So you are quite right that there is no way of knowing, just as there is no way to know that Corn Gluten is the main source of protein. All you see when you see dog food compared is someone's opinion and has little reference to any facts. The best way to judge a food is to look at your dog and if he is thrifty,healthy, and has all the energy the dog needs you are feeding an excellent feed.

The number of cups you feed or the calories per cup has little to do with how good a feed is overall. The amount of protein and fat gives you a clue but until we can tell what feed a dog is eating by looking at it we are just nitpicking. I think checking how much it cost per day to feed your dog is a valid thing to look at but not the cost per lb. or the cost per cup which has no bearing on anything.

Companies do not publish there formulas for very good reason but the feed has to provide everything that the tag shows and that is checked often by several different government agencies plus the companies them selves and is compared to the formuli to insure the feed is meets it guaratee.

Your dog will tell you so much more than any of us can from just looking at a list of ingredients. And as you can see from just the small sample of the people on this board that they are all pretty darn good.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:16 pm

Duane,

what do you feed...

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:41 pm

I called and Purina said they would send me a letter in 2 - 10 days.

keep you posted

Duane M · Post by **Duane M** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:47 pm

mcbosco wrote:Duane,

what do you feed...

Taste of the Wild High Prarie formula. I've raised the last three litters off this from before they were whelped as well as my adult dogs, it's the best I have fed and Lord knows I have fed most all of them over the past couple of decades. Several of my training customers switched as well when they picked their dogs up which speaks louder to me than anything.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:57 pm

that one and Chicken Soup seem to be very good deals from Diamond

Duane M · Post by **Duane M** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:11 pm

I used to feed the Chicken Soup actually and while a good feed no doubt it was not as good when the dogs are working hard. I had to up the amount too much for my taste during hunting/guiding season on CS which I did not have to with the TOTW. The CS I do feed to some of the older dogs during off season still since it's lower in total protein than TOTW, not due to worrys about kidneys or anything just a matter of the dogs I feed it to being older and not needing as high of protein when they are in the summer layoff.

Pineywoods · Post by **Pineywoods** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:19 am

mcbosco wrote:Yes and that was my point all along but I also wanted to highlight that the primary protein source in PP is Corn Gluten and I see no reason to pay such a high price for that. It surprised me how much PP costs. $55 bucks for 37.5lbs almost gets you a bag of Orijen.

I don't know were you buy feed. I pay $40.85 with tax for a 37.5 lbs bag of Purana pro plan performance. Then I get .12 cents
a pound back from Purana as a pro club member.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:54 am

pro plan perfomance is as much as $50 with tax in NJ, $45 is kind of average. Petco is about $45 plus tax. Pricey for whats in the bag.

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:07 pm

Now my two cents on the question asked. I tried Diamond Hi Energy 24-20 several years ago, mostly due to the higher fat content. My dogs did not do very well on it, Diamond has since changed the formula to a chicken protein and I don't have any experience with this newer Hi Energy. The Diamond Premium 26-18 fed quite a bit better than the Hi Energy and the Diamond Performance 30-20 just slightly better than the Premium. Diamond is affordable and widely available to many people.

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