Interesting ingredient information on bag

[nanney1]

Was walking around Petsmart and noticed that Bil-Jac had upgraded the look of their Bil-Jac Select dry dog food. It now had some yellow trim on the bag and said Select Adult. Upon further inspection, the bag had shrunk from 35lbs to 30lbs. But here is the really interesting part... Prominently displayed on the bag it said:

"20lbs of chicken in a 30lb bag"

O.K. now we finally have some semblance of how much chicken is actually used in their dog food. Yeah, I know about fresh chicken and water weight before processing, yada yada yada. I don't want to get into that discussion, have that debate, or dissect the ingredients in the Bil-Jac. I am in no way promoting this food, and I'm not asking for anyone else to provide an analysis of their ingredients. I simply found it interesting that they promoted the amount of chicken in their feed by weight volume.

It doesn't tell us the whole story and is just a glimmer of insight into their product, but is more info than on any other bag of food I've seen before.

Here is the ingredient list:
Chicken By-Products (Organs only, Including Chicken Liver), Chicken, Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Brewers Dried Yeast, Cane Molasses, Egg Product, Salt, Sodium Propionate (a preservative), DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Inositol, BHA (a preservative), Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodine, Sodium Selenite.

[mcbosco]

it is just another example of deceptive advertising, pathetic

[ezzy333]

it is just another example of deceptive advertising, pathetic

Since the rest of us do not have the judgement or knowledge you possess would you help us out and give usthe formula for the Bil-Jac feed? How much of each of the ingredients on the list is there in the 30 pounds of feed. The feed is a 30/ 20 feed with 30% protein and 20% fat. With the ingredient list provided and the guaranteed analysis you can figure the lbs of each and give us the formula.

For many of us this would be hard to do but you have told us countless times you can tell by looking at the ingredient list I am sure you can do this in a couple of minutes and then we can all see just how pathetic this deceptive advertisement really is and maybe the e-mails I am recieving about your opinions you are stating as fact will stop and they can see that you are right.


Ezzy

[mcbosco]

why does Bil Jac need to add molasses? I know from the horse business why molasses is used in animal feed.

Corn is the number one ingredient in that food without question.

education is sometimes painful, what can i say

[ezzy333]

why does Bil Jac need to add molasses? I know from the horse business why molasses is used in animal feed.

Corn is the number one ingredient in that food without question.

education is sometimes painful, what can i say

Please answer the question and not talk all around it again. Give us the formula so we can tell how much chicken is in that 30 pound bag.

Ezzy

[kerplunk105]

I don't care how much chicken the kibble does or does not have, the fact that it has corn in it is enough of a reason for me not to want to use it. :roll:

[mcbosco]

all together its probably around 5lbs given the water..but you miss the point entirely when a company says it contains 20lbs of chicken it is being deceptive...why would you believe them? You know better than most that fresh protein is as much as 80% water...the company wants you to believe that 2/3rds of the product is protein from chicken but it clearly is not

[birddogger]

I don't care how much chicken the kibble does or does not have, the fact that it has corn in it is enough of a reason for me not to want to use it. :roll:

Maybe, I haven't read enough biased studies, but I have never fed my dogs anything that didn't have corn in it, in one form or another. Have never had a problem.

Charlie

[birddogger]

all together its probably around 5lbs given the water..but you miss the point entirely when a company says it contains 20lbs of chicken it is being deceptive...why would you believe them? You know better than most that fresh protein is as much as 80% water...the company wants you to believe that 2/3rds of the product is protein from chicken but it clearly is not

I agree that some companies use deceptive practices in their advertising and legally get away with it. This is why I don't fall into the trap of buying the most expensive dog foods. They are all good, but no better than alot of the cheaper ones.

Charlie

[Ditch__Parrot]

OK OK all this my food is better than your food blah blah blah is just plain getting annoying. Why not just put an end to it with a little friendly competition. Bird season is right around the corner. Ezzy can put down one of his scrawny little obviously malnutritioned Britts. mcbosco can put down his 90 lb table scrap fed spinone and we can see how they stack up

[mcbosco]

table scraps, funny....wait let me unwind million of years of evolution and grab some corn and corn gluten and then top it off with some maltodextrin...

[ezzy333]

all together its probably around 5lbs given the water..but you miss the point entirely when a company says it contains 20lbs of chicken it is being deceptive...why would you believe them? You know better than most that fresh protein is as much as 80% water...the company wants you to believe that 2/3rds of the product is protein from chicken but it clearly is not

Explain how there is only 5 lbs of chicken in the bag when chicken products are the two biggest ingredients plus chickem meal is the forth largest? That means 3 out of 4 of the major ingrdients only add up to 5 pounds. So what is the other 25 pounds thats in the bag? Remeber they can't be more of the lesser ingredients than there is of the majors.

It appears you are saying there is only 2 pounds of each of the chicken ingredients so that means the corn has to be only a pound or so and none of the other ingredients can even be a pound. I just don't see how that adds up, do you? 2 lbs chicken organs, 1 1/2pounds of chicken meat, 1 pound of corn, 1/2 pound of chicken by-product meal, and all of the other minor ingredients would have to be an ounce or two according to your figures. Those include the dreaded Beet pulp and molasses. Bet an ounce or two in a 30 pound bag really messes up the whole feed.

Surely you can do better than this.

Be realistic and give us the formula please.


Ezzy

[birddogger]

OK OK all this my food is better than your food blah blah blah is just plain getting annoying. Why not just put an end to it with a little friendly competition. Bird season is right around the corner. Ezzy can put down one of his scrawny little obviously malnutritioned Britts. mcbosco can put down his 90 lb table scrap fed spinone and we can see how they stack up

OK, this is a good post, but I just have to clear one thing up. There are only a couple of people saying their food is better than everyone else's. I am not saying my food is better than theirs.

Having said that, you are right, it has gotten a little long and there is no end to it. Nobody is going to convince the other one to see it his or her way. As for me, I think I am finished with this subject for now. [No guarantees though]

Charlie

[mcbosco]

the whole discussion is foolish, it reminds me of the food industry telling young mothers to buy baby formula because the free stuff isn't as good.

no company will ever make a dog food that is as good as a fresh kill, to the extent you can emulate that the better off you will be.

[ezzy333]

the whole discussion is foolish, it reminds me of the food industry telling young mothers to buy baby formula because the free stuff isn't as good.

no company will ever make a dog food that is as good as a fresh kill, to the extent you can emulate that the better off you will be.

Since you are unable to answer the question, am I correct in saying that you don't know what the formula is for the feed and don't know how to figure it? If that is true you have no evidence that the 20 lbs of chicken in a 30 lb. bag is wrong or deceptive I believe you said? I do not think it is smart to put in print statements that are not factual or not even based on fact. And the main problem is that people with no knowledge of the dog food business may take what you are saying as fact when really all you are stating is your opinion and not fact. The experienced dog people already know this but it could be misleading for our new comers.

Ezzy

[claybuster_aa]

My thoughts, maybe a misprint and that is suppose to be 20% not 20 lbs? In any event, it doesn’t look all that bad. At least
they use the by-products and not afraid of being black listed by the WDJ...right?

BEET PULP is what I don't like. I know Ezzy will argue nothing wrong with beet pulp. All I know is an expansion type fiber than can expand up to 250%. It is a highly suspect ingredient for being potentially dangerous. I wouldn't opt to feed it because of the beet pulp, HOWEVER, at least they don't hit with an omnivore buffet of ingredients like most of the big name kibbles...you know garlic, yucca, chicory root, some type of clay than amounts to dirt, peas, broccoli, seaweed (kelp), etc. All and all I think it's not that bad but the beet pulp is what would make think twice.

[brdhntr]

the whole discussion is foolish, it reminds me of the food industry telling young mothers to buy baby formula because the free stuff isn't as good.

no company will ever make a dog food that is as good as a fresh kill, to the extent you can emulate that the better off you will be.

Since you are unable to answer the question, am I correct in saying that you don't know what the formula is for the feed and don't know how to figure it? If that is true you have no evidence that the 20 lbs of chicken in a 30 lb. bag is wrong or deceptive I believe you said? I do not think it is smart to put in print statements that are not factual or not even based on fact. And the main problem is that people with no knowledge of the dog food business may take what you are saying as fact when really all you are stating is your opinion and not fact. The experienced dog people already know this but it could be misleading for our new comers.

Ezzy

I don't know what the formula is, but there is enough info to clearly identify this as an inferior food. It is also clear that they are going the extra mile to make the uninformed consumer believe this food is like giving their dog 20 lbs of chicken. In another post you stated chicken meal was the 4th ingredient, it is not. This feed has no chicken meal.

[shets114]

Claybuster, does your dog have an issue with Beet Pulp?

[ezzy333]

There is such a small amount in any dog food that it would not be a problem. All it is is a dehydrated beet and like all vegetables used in a feed it is dry and swells back to normal size when water is added. The advantage is that it is an excellent fiber and is one of a very few that the animal actually digests. We have found it to be the premier source of fiber plus a cooling type feed that enhances the whole GI tract's health and helps cool the dog in the heat..

Ezzy

[nanney1]

I have called Bil-Jac a time or two to ask about questions. Here's one interesting tidbit. If you look at the ingredient list there is one thing missing. Take a look. There is no fat listed in the ingredient list.

Their explanation is that they use so much fresh chicken that they don't have to add any fat to the food to boost the fat percentage or for taste. Take it for what it's worth.

Bil-Jac isn't a new company. Their fresh frozen food has been around for probably 50+ years. They added the dry product maybe 20 years ago. Again, I'm not promoting this food, saying it's a good or bad food, or asking anyone to try it. I just happened to see their new bag and thought it was interesting that they listed the amount of chicken by weight.

I have noticed that Bil-Jac is used by many toy breed fanciers along with a good number of folks on the show dog circuit. The cost is a little much for most people.

[ezzy333]

If they are using whole chickens then you know they are old layers that have quit producing and probably are have a good amount of internal body fat. It's just another indication of how much chicken they are really using. Looks to me to be a real good food but I have no idea what the cost is but bet it is high.

Ezzy

[nanney1]

Cost - at my local Petsmart in NC, the cost was $47 for a 35lb bag, though $5 off coupons were easy to come by from the rep giving away samples and coupons. I know since I've received multiple samples and coupons.

This week the newly redesigned 30lb bag with "20lbs of chicken per bag" was $44.

Most of the people I know who feed this product have toy breeds and buy the smaller bags. Cost isn't really an issue since they're feeding dogs that weigh under 10 lbs and even a small bag of food lasts them a good while.

I just called Bil-Jac and asked about the bag size. I was told that they were moving to a standard size of 30, 15, and 6 lb bags. The new bag has a resealable opening. I was told that some older customers had trouble opening the bags.

I was also told they were changing the formula slightly. There will be more chicken in the product than previously used. Fresh chicken will switch places with chicken by-products since customers prefer fresh chicken as the #1 ingredient. Due to customer concerns over cane molasses, this ingredient will be removed, and they will now use yams and oatmeal. Or maybe it was sweet potatoes and oatmeal. I can't remember.

Sounds like Bil-Jac is starting to give in to the pressures of Internet Ingredient Analysis.

[claybuster_aa]

Claybuster, does your dog have an issue with Beet Pulp?

I choose not to feed it any longer. I did for about 10 years. You know all those warnings about feeding your dogs before and after hunting. You have waiting periods of no feeding, I have read some say up to 24 hrs (before). The reason I mention that is because I feel, it has something to do with possibly the beet pulp and some other factors as well. It is because of that expansion that does take place with the beet pulp that can create pressure against the stomach may not be a very good thing at all and maybe a contributing factor to problems like bloat. I think if you feed your dog nothing but home prepared diets with fresh raw or cooked meats, bloats is much less of concern....or a commercial ration without expansion type fibers.

[claybuster_aa]

"20lbs of chicken in a 30lb bag"

It doesn't tell us the whole story and is just a glimmer of insight into their product, but is more info than on any other bag of food I've seen before.

That should probably be illegal and I wouldn't be surprised if they have to change that shortly. However from a marketing standpoint it sounds a lot better than 5lbs of dehydrated chicken in a 30lbs bag.

[ezzy333]

I don't think you will see it change till they are ready to change their bag again. As far as I can tell it is probably accurate and they sure wouldn't have had the bags printed that way if it isn't true. With three of the 4 top ingredients being chicken it would be my guess there is that much in their formula. Al the rest of the ingredients are pretty minor so I am sure they wouldn't be more than 1/3 of the weight of the feed.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

It is interesting how the suggestion of adding raw food mostly from the fridge get everyone's knickers in a twist, like raw egg yolks and yogurt. It is also interesting how the industry has convinced the public that it has done the research and it really knows what your dog needs. Very much like the baby formula business.

Like beet pulp, take it out of most kibbles and your dog will get the runs, its that simple. It was overused in horses for years. I remember the Agway truck dumping it off and the Vet saying Oh lord here is the next fad.

I understand that not everyone has the time to feed raw, but a few simple things will save you thousands of dollars down the line.

Clay referenced bloat above, but no one on this board even mentions the role of kibble in bloat or the bloat epidemic. As limited as the Perdue study is, it is pretty clear that bloat risks drop substantially when non-kibble food like fresh or canned is added to kibble. Just imagine if it were eliminated.

Don't kid yourself that we know so much about what makes an animal tick nutritionally, but we know for sure what they were designed to eat.

Do this simple test, get some meaty bones from the butcher, he will probably give them to you for nothing next time he bones a leg of lamb. Butchers by me will kiss you for taking pork bones off their hands.

Watch how your dog reacts to it, look and him closely and then ask yourself if kibble is really that good.

[slistoe]

Do this simple test, get some meaty bones from the butcher, he will probably give them to you for nothing next time he bones a leg of lamb. Butchers by me will kiss you for taking pork bones off their hands.

Watch how your dog reacts to it, look and him closely and then ask yourself if kibble is really that good.

Give your kid a chocolate bar from the candy store. Watch how your kid reacts to it, look and him closely and then ask yourself if vegetables is really that good.

[mcbosco]

very good response, show's a lot of thought

[slistoe]

I hope you learned from it.

[mcbosco]

yeah that you hold the opinion that a raw bone covered with meat and connective tissue and filled with marrow, is not appropriate for a dog...i actually don't believe you believe that

[slistoe]

So, you didn't learn that the conclusion you drew from the observation you made was illogical, scientifically unsound and totally ludicrous . Too bad.

[slistoe]

Don't kid yourself that we know so much about what makes an animal tick nutritionally, but we know for sure what they were designed to eat.

Pretty interesting human/animal interest segment in the new tonight. Some Univ. lady is doing a study on animals in urban settings and how to minimize conflict. They followed her around searching for and analyzing coyote scat. Her conclusion was that diligently cleaning up the apples from under your trees would virtually eliminate the intrusion of a coyote into your yard.