strongpoint dog food?

[cheezehead]

anyone using this food? i was told by the local pet food store that this food is made in the same factory that canidae used to be made in. supposed to be comparable to canidae, but cost less.

[MikeB]

StrongPoint may be good food but I don't think there is any comparison to Canidae. Very few food today compares to the quality of Canidae and the ingredients they use. Just my opinion.

[mcbosco]

Especially for what Canidae costs, if you feed kibble its hard not to buy it when you factor in out of pocket cost plus the free bag policy. If you need more protein and fat, you can just add raw egg, yogurt or meat.

The other thing is great customer service, still family owned.

[slistoe]

anyone using this food? i was told by the local pet food store that this food is made in the same factory that canidae used to be made in. supposed to be comparable to canidae, but cost less.

I always get a kick out of this "made in" or "made by" stuff. The factory is a mixer, extruder and baker. What does that have to do with ingredient composition?

Anyway, mcbosco if you are going to factor the cost of feeding a particular food you need to add in the cost of those little "extras" you feel compelled to add. An egg a day makes a pretty expensive meal comparitively. There are dry dog foods out there that perform superbly well without the need to supplement.

[mcbosco]

The added items are actually quite cheap, organic eggs are 15 cents a piece down the road, yes even in NJ, we always have plain yogurt in the house and meat trimmings and organs are pretty much given away. The only thing I really spend money on is green tripe which is about $1.79 a pound. I have a bunch of goat tripe in the freezer that I got for free from a guy getting a goat slaughtered. I have 25lbs of free range chicken livers in the freezer that were going in the trash if I didn't take them.

Canidae runs 75 cents a pound when you factor in the free bag, which on its own, is better than most of the kibbles out there. So even if you spend on goodies for another 25 cents a pound its still quite modest.

Its a pretty high calorie food to begin with, in fact more calories than Diamond Performance per lb, but a little less than PP Performance and Diamond Extreme, but no corn or gluten and no beet pulp.

But I hear you, it is a bit a trouble and its extra money, especially if you have multiple dogs.

I think the best deal in dry is Abady, which I use, at 800 calories a cup. Most of you guys could get away with 1 - 1.5 cups even during training. A GSP might need a little more.

anyway happy long weekend to all

[ezzy333]

The added items are actually quite cheap, organic eggs are 15 cents a piece down the road, yes even in NJ, we always have plain yogurt in the house and meat trimmings and organs are pretty much given away. The only thing I really spend money on is green tripe which is about $1.79 a pound. I have a bunch of goat tripe in the freezer that I got for free from a guy getting a goat slaughtered. I have 25lbs of free range chicken livers in the freezer that were going in the trash if I didn't take them.

Canidae runs 75 cents a pound when you factor in the free bag, which on its own, is better than most of the kibbles out there. So even if you spend on goodies for another 25 cents a pound its still quite modest.

Its a pretty high calorie food to begin with, in fact more calories than Diamond Performance per lb, but a little less than PP Performance and Diamond Extreme, but no corn or gluten and no beet pulp.

But I hear you, it is a bit a trouble and its extra money, especially if you have multiple dogs.

I think the best deal in dry is Abady, which I use, at 800 calories a cup. Most of you guys could get away with 1 - 1.5 cups even during training. A GSP might need a little more.

anyway happy long weekend to all

This would be an OK post if some place it just said "In my opinion". But it doesn't and instead is posted as fact. And that is plain wrong. I have never found any evidence that Canidae is a better feed than most other feeds. I think it is a good feed but priced very high. And then it is stated that it is very reasonable at .75 per lb. but you need to add 15 cents for a fresh egg a day. That is 50 dollars a year additional. Then add twice that for yogurt and meat trimmings and maybe another .50 cents a day for a scrap of tripe and we are now up to some where near a 1.50 a day for feed for one dog that isn't working much. Plus we need to add the cost of a freezer and the electricity to run it.. So if we are lucky and have room for two freezers you might be getting by for 2 dollars a day for one dog. That is 700 a year folks.

I complain about the cost of feed and I am getting by for some where near 10 to 15 a month per dog depending on weather and their work schedule. I admit I am feeding Brits that are smaller but the difference between 100 a year and 700 a year would make it impossible to keep several dogs let alone having a kennel full like some of you and I used to.

When you break it all down you can see why so many people with one dog that they think of as their child promote one type of feed while people who have dogs for hunting or trialing and the ones with breeding and training kennels read this stuff and snicker. They can just imagine what it would be like to have to store, mix, and feed all of these perishable items to get the same results they are getting with a good dry food. And the cost plus the labor involved would be completely unmanageable. Walk in freezers are rather expensive and lack a great deal in portability when you are on the road competeing in some event or even just on your annual hunting trip.

Too many times what looks good on paper just doesn't come close to cutting it in reality. Kind of the same deal when we have the people in Washington telling us they know more than we do on how we should live. Most of them have never even experienced what it is to own or run a business or even live in a rural setting but regardless they still are smarter than the rest of us. And they tell us about it over and over.

JMO from the experience I have had,

Ezzy

[cheezehead]

ezzy333, what food do you recommend for a 4mo, 40lb lab?

[mcbosco]

Canidae is priced high versus which foods and on what basis? You are entitled to your opinions as well but you mislead people because when you refer to cost because you only look at the price of the bag and not the price of feeding. Canidae is among the cheapest to feed despite being very high quality.

Also, you know very well that by adding some fresh food, even if you spend a few extra bucks a year, reduces other costs like vets bills. By adding some meat or eggs you reduce the risk of bloat by about 38% or more, so you save money in the long run. You also have to net those feeding costs against the cost of supplements and other health related costs. You have laughed about bloat before, but ask any Weimaraner owner and see if they laugh.

Also you seem to think I am a spend thrift of some kind. I have interests in about a dozen show jumpers that are owned and leased so I have a pretty good idea of animal raising costs and where it makes sense to spend money.

I spend about $1.5 a day to feed my Spinone, who eats about twice as much as day as say a Brittany or English Setter would. There is guy on here that spends about 80 cents a day using Abady, which people think is so expensive. I don't think anyone would say 80 cents a day is expensive.

So cut me a break about pitching an expensive yuppie diet.

The most expensive thing when it comes to dogs is feeding cheap and feeding bad.

[mcbosco]

ezzy333, what food do you recommend for a 4mo, 40lb lab?

If you want a rec on food for a Lab, I would stay on Canidae if you want to feed a kibble. You will feed less of it than most other kibbles and that is factual. The grain-free ALS formula might be a great formula for a Lab because they are more likely to put on weight if not worked frequently.

You might want to look at Abady M&S if you can get it where you live.

[bossman]

Here we go again. The I know whats best for your dog argument. While I am convined that everyone on this board sincerly believes that they're feeding routine is best... even though some sound like they know everything and eveyone else knows nothing..I do think they mean well. However.. In all due respect, stop sounding like your way is the only way. Come on...Adding fresh food reduces other costs like vet bills..That sent me over the edge. Have had gun dogs for 35 years, feeding as many as 7 at one time. Not concerned with cost..just want the best for my dogs. No vet or any friend has ever made that stong of a statement to me..A statement that sounded like fact as opposed to opinion. I have tried just about every food available for my dogs. I currently feed and am very satisfied with Eukanuba. Dogs look great and perform well. Now that works for me and my dogs. If someome wants to feed Science Diet with some steak tar tar added...if their dogs do well and they believe in it, if their vet see's nothing wrong with it , go for it. But please don't tell me I have to do the same. One thing I've noticed, again in all due respect, for those of you that are constantly having a disagrement on what to feed our dogs, would love to see more pictures of dogs actually pointing a bird with no check cord in sight. Again, nothing personal. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the sport. Just been reading these food posts too long and the "fresh food" comment threw me over the top..Thanks for listening.

[ezzy333]

ezzy333, what food do you recommend for a 4mo, 40lb lab?

I can't recommend any one feed over all the others. There are many good dog foods available and much of it depends on what is available in your area that is convient for you to purchase. I don't want to have to drive 10 miles every time I need food if I can help it. I thought your Strongpoint looked ok as far as the ingredient list shows but you can't really judge a feed just on the list. If I was you I would try that and see how your dog responds. Does the pup like it and eats readily? That is important.

I feed Diamond Premium now and like it alot. I don't think it is better than several other feeds but it definately is one of the very best when you look at feeding cost. Purina Pro-Plan is good and there are thousands of performaance dogs in the country to prove it plus some of the best kennels on this board have used Sportmix or Exceed and done very well with them. I am not a big fan of Iams or the real cheap feeds for Performance dogs but they may work fine for less active dogs. Tuffy's had a feed I liked well but it became unavailable in our area. Canidae is a good feed but is priced too high and I do think that ProPlan is gradually being priced out of the market also.

The only true way to judge a food is to see how your dog is doing, what it is costing to feed, and is it available conviently and consistantly. Those are the factors that really count. I have a friend with some excellent pointing labs that has been feeding one of the Diamond feeds for some time now and likes the results very much. He raised a litter on it also and has been quite pleased.

Hope this helps but what you decide on has to meet those three requirements. I personally would try the Diamond feeds as they have performed wonderfully for us. But then I have never found a feed that didn't work but rather just some that seem to work better and are cheaper. Good luck and if you decide to try the Strongpoint let us know how it works. Just don't let all of the banter on this forum or any place else make up your mind for you for as you can see you will get advise to feed every kind of dogfood on the market with the recommendation that it is better than all of the others, and there just isn't one better than all the rest. And I would strongly suggest once you decide what to feed stick with it if at all possible. This is an area where the grass is not often greener on the other side of the fence. Your dog deserves and will love you for it if you provide a food it likes on a timely and consistent manner. Management is often more important than what you feed when caring for any animal.

Good luck.

Ezzy

[slistoe]

mcbosco I know what you are saying about the cost per bag not being an indicator of the cost of feeding. The most classic example was a fellow who brought a young bull mastiff to board with the cheapest grain store feed bag you can get. I fed him from a 3 gal. pail and used the aluminum scoop shovel in his kennel every day. I sent him home with a bag of dog food that was 6x more money than the stuff he was buying. I didn't hear from him for a long time and thought he had not bothered with the food, but then he called because he had "finally" run out of food and wanted more. The 6x the cost bag lasted 7x as long so was cheaper to feed in the end. BUT, that rule does not apply universally and I don't need to spend the kind of money that Abady is charging to get excellent nutrition for my dog. Spending three times as much on dog food IS expensive, regardless of whether it is $1.50/day or not. Needlessly spending 3x the money is the definition of a spendthrift.

[mcbosco]

Abady is expensive by the box but not by the day. If I fed it soley, it would run about $1.50 per day to feed a 90lb animal. Claybuster has a setter that runs on 1 cup day. I think he said a 35lb box last 3 months, so that's about 85 cents per day. Abady discounts heavily on the bigger boxes. I bet a setter or brittany might cost about 70 cents per day or less if you buy the bigger boxes.

Yes it appears very expensive but it is dense and economical.

You are 100% right though you cant apply it universally, but plenty of people on here can vouch for the concept whether they feed Evo, TOTW, Abady, Orijen or whatever.

[slistoe]

I suppose you think I am just making up numbers? Or you just didn't want to read what I wrote? The class of products you mentioned will cost me 2.5 to 3 times as much to feed as what I am currently feeding. I know this from side by side feeding tests with Orijen on my dogs. What I currently feed is comparable to ProPlan in price and quality. My feed cost last year was $3000. To pay $7500 to $9000 just for the sake of joining the current fad would be ludicrous.

[mcbosco]

I did read it. PP Performance is $45 a bag in NJ. I would need at least one bag per month. Abady if I fed alone would be $45 a month.

so where am i wrong?

[claybuster_aa]

I suppose you think I am just making up numbers? Or you just didn't want to read what I wrote? The class of products you mentioned will cost me 2.5 to 3 times as much to feed as what I am currently feeding. I know this from side by side feeding tests with Orijen on my dogs. What I currently feed is comparable to ProPlan in price and quality. My feed cost last year was $3000. To pay $7500 to $9000 just for the sake of joining the current fad would be ludicrous.

You may not be making up numbers but they are inaccurate to say the least. You had used this example:

I sent him home with a bag of dog food that was 6x more money than the stuff he was buying. I didn't hear from him for a long time and thought he had not bothered with the food, but then he called because he had "finally" run out of food and wanted more. The 6x the cost bag lasted 7x as long so was cheaper to feed in the end. BUT, that rule does not apply universally ...

Without comparing calories per cup and feeding tables, then you just can't assume that does not apply "universally".
I can guarantee you calories per cup are indeed higher in what Sal is feeding in one cup compared to whatever product you sent that client home with. Also, it is safe to assume the feeding tables would indicate lesser amounts are needed per day.
Therefore, you scenario with the client and the new food does in fact hold true in this case.

Knowing that, your figures of 3k up to 9K is a stretch is say the least. My estimate in a switch like that (not that I am by no means implying you should do so, not my concern) you would be paying 3k to more like 4.5 to 6K. Often is the case with breeders, they will find an upgrade in the diet yields an upgrade in pups. One could pick up on average say 3 pups + a year at a 1000 a pop an upgrade in feed could pay for itself. That is not a long shot but more like highly probable.

Also, a lot of money is chased around at the vets office with skin and coat problems, hotspots, hair falling off the nose, etc. You may have even read similar type posts here about those sort of issues. Yes, I do believe it is true you can reduced the number of office to the vet with an upgrade. Your client with the food may have averaged 6Xs per year to the Vet and you got him down to once or twice a year? Is that illogical?

Again, not my concern with what anyone is feeding. Not trying to persuade anyone to do anything different from what they do now. But I will help if people have questions about it or care to discuss the products.

Charlie

[mcbosco]

clay, you feed your Setter 1 cup of Abady?

[claybuster_aa]

clay, you feed your Setter 1 cup of Abady?

I feel that is accurate. My scoop holds about 2 cups, maybe just a bit more and it usually last about 2-3 days in the bowls (I am a free-feeder). A box of "Classic" 40-lbs last me 3 months and a box of "Basic", a bit stronger in a 35-lb box also last 3 months. They eat less as the strength of the mix increases, so 35-lb or 40-lb is the same time wise. Follow? If I upgraded another notch higher and went to a 30-lb box (if available) that box would also last about 3 months. Numbers are relative figures. The Setter and the Yorkie eat out of the same bowl, so combined they go about 50-lbs.

[mcbosco]

Ok so figure that box either 35 or 40 lbs is $70, then you spend about 75 cents a day, which is quite similar to the high performance kibbles.

and you have much less to clean-up

[claybuster_aa]

Ok so figure that box either 35 or 40 lbs is $70, then you spend about 75 cents a day, which is quite similar to the high performance kibbles.

and you have much less to clean-up

$65 +tax.

[slistoe]

I know this from side by side feeding tests with Orijen on my dogs.

You may not be making up numbers but they are inaccurate to say the least.

You could have saved yourself a lot of typing if you had paid attention to this sentence.

Knowing that, your figures of 3k up to 9K is a stretch is say the least. My estimate in a switch like that (not that I am by no means implying you should do so, not my concern) you would be paying 3k to more like 4.5 to 6K. Often is the case with breeders, they will find an upgrade in the diet yields an upgrade in pups. One could pick up on average say 3 pups + a year at a 1000 a pop an upgrade in feed could pay for itself. That is not a long shot but more like highly probable.

Also, a lot of money is chased around at the vets office with skin and coat problems, hotspots, hair falling off the nose, etc. You may have even read similar type posts here about those sort of issues. Yes, I do believe it is true you can reduced the number of office to the vet with an upgrade. Your client with the food may have averaged 6Xs per year to the Vet and you got him down to once or twice a year? Is that illogical?

Actually, those two paragraphs are completely illogical. Is this your own "common sense" or did the person selling you the hyped up feed tell you these "facts".

[cheezehead]

i went to the pet food store on sat. and took a closer look at strongpoint vs canadae. strongpoint had a lot more filler, and i didn't care for the smell. so i guess i'm staying with canadae. still thinking of trying fromm's duck and sweet potato though....

[ezzy333]

And what are you calling a filler?

Ezzy

[claybuster_aa]

I know this from side by side feeding tests with Orijen on my dogs.

I had noticed Orijen is including lawn weeds into their mix like Dandelions. How's that working out?

[slistoe]

Have no idea about how it is working for the dogs in that feed particularly but I have seen my dogs eating dandelions and I didn't mind the dandelion greens salad my wife made a couple of months ago. I was going to make dandelion wine one time but gave up after the first two quarts of yellow heads were picked - too time consuming.

I am sure that including dandelions will be a big sales boost to subscribers of Country Life Harrowsmith and the like.

[gmanksu]

I know a very successful long time field trialer in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that feeds it and has for years, he had it rebagged and sold it for a while as well. He still feeds it and says it is a good food. I have seen his dogs, over the years and know that he knows performance and what it takes to get performance out of dogs. He has owned and ran multiple Ch. dogs over the years, his latest dog had over 50 placements in walking and horseback stakes. You don't push dogs like he does and feed them crap and have them standup to the rigors, enough said. All the wanna be food formulators need to back off and really test their dogs to be able to see what food does or doesn't stand up. I have not fed this food as it is not available in the area. I am currently feeding Country Vet Dog Fuel and Arkat Pro Athlete both of which are very good feeds in the kennel and performance wise as well.

[claybuster_aa]

Ok so figure that box either 35 or 40 lbs is $70, then you spend about 75 cents a day, which is quite similar to the high performance kibbles.

and you have much less to clean-up

$65 +tax.

But you also have to consider this as well Sal, food intake fluctuates as one would expect in the dogs diet. Hot summer days they east less. Colder weather can bring and increase along with increased work like during bird season. I can't just say they eat about a cup a day because it probably higher on average, say 1.5 cups. I have found that the feeding tables listed are pretty accurate on the box of feed.